Spark plug voltage

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Constant Mesh

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Does the coil atop the spark plug configuration provide a higher spark voltage than the two plug per coil circuit on the earlier FJR's?

I noticed the '13 spark plugs have a larger recommended air gap.

Air Gap

2013 0.031 - 0.035 inches

2004 0.028 - 0.031 inches

 
Well you could grab ahold of the wire at the cap, and give it a go. Followed by the same thing at the wires termination.

I can tell you the voltage is enough to piss ya off. ;)

 
Does the coil atop the spark plug configuration provide a higher spark voltage than the two plug per coil circuit on the earlier FJR's?

I noticed the '13 spark plugs have a larger recommended air gap.

Air Gap

2013 0.031 - 0.035 inches

2004 0.028 - 0.031 inches
Most definitely. No wires to propagate down and the coil secondary voltage only has to arc across one plug instead of two.

Plus the voltage will always be negative at the plug's center electrode in reference to the grounded side electrode, so the arc will always occur from center to side. The reason this matters is that the center electrode can be made from platinum or iridium, which does not erode as quickly as conventional metals. The side electrodes on plugs are typically not made of such metals.

 
Ahhhhh.........the ol' coil voltage/spark plug gap misnomer. The reason the gap is widened has nothing to do with the coil. They found that having a wider gap burns more fuel in the combustion chamber thus reducing the carbon footprint of the bike. It makes us "go green" types all frosty at the mouth n stuff.

 
Well you could grab ahold of the wire at the cap, and give it a go. Followed by the same thing at the wires termination.

I can tell you the voltage is enough to piss ya off. ;)
I had a auto shop teacher that could touch a spark plug wire , no facial expressions then try to touch you, to try to make you jump.

 
Does the coil atop the spark plug configuration provide a higher spark voltage than the two plug per coil circuit on the earlier FJR's?
I noticed the '13 spark plugs have a larger recommended air gap.

Air Gap

2013 0.031 - 0.035 inches

2004 0.028 - 0.031 inches
The spark plug voltage depends on the plug gap, not on the coil.

The plug voltage rises until the gas within the gap ionises, then the voltage drops to a sustaining value that maintains the spark. The ionising (or "breakdown") voltage is of the order of 12000 volts, the sustaining voltage is of the order of 2000-3000 volts.

The break-down voltage depends mostly on the gap, also on electrode shape and the gas conditions (temperature, pressure, constituents). The sustaining voltage is virtually independent of the gap, mostly depending on the gas conditions. These are not Ohm's Law scenarios.

The faster the rise-time of the voltage, the easier it is to ionise the gas. The plug-top coil allows for a faster voltage rise-time at the plug and possibly a higher spark current (a "fatter" spark), due to the reduced plug lead inductance.

An open circuit coil will give a voltage of the order of 30000 volts. This "over-voltage" helps with the rise-time up to the ionisation voltage and allows sufficient voltage with a lower coil primary voltage - with the old contact-breaker systems the open circuit secondary voltage was more or less proportional to the battery voltage, which could be two thirds of the nominal voltage. (I'm not sure about this direct dependency in modern electronic ignitions.)

An illustration:

privsec_1-1.jpg


Graph from here.

 
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Ahhhhh.........the ol' coil voltage/spark plug gap misnomer. The reason the gap is widened has nothing to do with the coil. They found that having a wider gap burns more fuel in the combustion chamber thus reducing the carbon footprint of the bike. It makes us "go green" types all frosty at the mouth n stuff.
So why go with the smaller gap to begin with?

 
Honestly?? Who really gives a rat ass?

I mean really.. 5 thousands of a fukin inch? Kinda like 2 mm suspension upgrade. Hyperbole

Ya need to get a fuking hobby peeps. :glare:

 
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Plus the voltage will always be negative at the plug's center electrode in reference to the grounded side electrode, so the arc will always occur from center to side. The reason this matters is that the center electrode can be made from platinum or iridium, which does not erode as quickly as conventional metals. The side electrodes on plugs are typically not made of such metals.

Fred, you have confused me again. The side electrode is grounded as you said because it is on the part of the plug that is physically touching the engine. The engine is linked to the - or negative side of the battery. If the center electrode or core also has a negative voltage??? I am confused. I don't think the coil can create a more negative voltage, I would expect to see a positive voltage. Educate me please.

 
Plus the voltage will always be negative at the plug's center electrode in reference to the grounded side electrode, so the arc will always occur from center to side. The reason this matters is that the center electrode can be made from platinum or iridium, which does not erode as quickly as conventional metals. The side electrodes on plugs are typically not made of such metals.

Fred, you have confused me again. The side electrode is grounded as you said because it is on the part of the plug that is physically touching the engine. The engine is linked to the - or negative side of the battery. If the center electrode or core also has a negative voltage??? I am confused. I don't think the coil can create a more negative voltage, I would expect to see a positive voltage. Educate me please.
Well.... As Fred is an old fuker and by now sleeping (you have a two hour jump on his lame old ass) I'll dive in here..no the center section doesn't have a negative charge. per say.

Kinda like gerbils being attracted to Carver.. Who knows why opposites attract?

It's been a hundred years since I've opened my books to elaborate further.. lets just say plus likes minus.

And fred likes sleep

 
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Plus the voltage will always be negative at the plug's center electrode in reference to the grounded side electrode, so the arc will always occur from center to side. The reason this matters is that the center electrode can be made from platinum or iridium, which does not erode as quickly as conventional metals. The side electrodes on plugs are typically not made of such metals.

Fred, you have confused me again. The side electrode is grounded as you said because it is on the part of the plug that is physically touching the engine. The engine is linked to the - or negative side of the battery. If the center electrode or core also has a negative voltage??? I am confused. I don't think the coil can create a more negative voltage, I would expect to see a positive voltage. Educate me please.
Well.... As Fred is an old fuker and by now sleeping (you have a two hour jump on his lame old ass) I'll dive in here..no the center section doesn't have a negative charge. per say.

Kinda like gerbils being attracted to Carver.. Who knows why opposites attract?

It's been a hundred years since I've opened my books to elaborate further.. lets just say plus likes minus.

And I likes SHEEP.
Why is it only interesting if you involve sheep? Sick ***.

 
It shouldn't make much difference if a platinum plug is firing from center to side, or vice versa. Both the center and side electrode have a small pad coated with platinum that keep them from eroding for a long time. That is, unless you gap them with a metal gapper and scrape the platinum off, then they don't last nearly as long.

Platinum-Spark-Plugs.jpg


The answer to the question you are asking may not be the answer you're looking for.

Does the coil atop the spark plug configuration provide a higher spark voltage than the two plug per coil circuit on the earlier FJR's?

The answer is No, because firing voltage is dependent on secondary circuit resistance. A waste spark system has to travel through 2 ignition wires and jump 2 plug gaps. That requires higher voltages than jumping a single gap and not traveling through any length of ignition wire, like Coil on Plug Systems.

If what you were really asking is Which system is capable of delivering more energy?

Then the answer is It Depends, entirely on the design of the ignition coils.

Joe

 
...

Fred, you have confused me again. The side electrode is grounded as you said because it is on the part of the plug that is physically touching the engine. The engine is linked to the - or negative side of the battery. If the center electrode or core also has a negative voltage??? I am confused. I don't think the coil can create a more negative voltage, I would expect to see a positive voltage. Educate me please.
Remember on a wasted spark system one plug gets a positive ground, the other gets the negative ground.

On a single plug system, the manufacturer can choose which way the spark is on the single plug by the design of the coil; if you like he can take a wasted spark system and simply short one plug lead to ground to fire the other plug or visa versa.

(Click on image for larger view)



(Igniter pin numbers refer to my Trophy, but the rest is identical to the Gen I and Gen II FJRs.)

...

So why go with the smaller gap to begin with?
Because of the lower breakdown voltage, there is less stress on the insulation of everything else, in particular the coil and the plug leads, and in the "good old days" the distributer cap.

...

Does the coil atop the spark plug configuration provide a higher spark voltage than the two plug per coil circuit on the earlier FJR's?

...
The answer is No, because firing voltage is dependent on secondary circuit resistance.

The voltage has nothing to do with the resistance while no current is flowing. Even when current does flow, it's much more the inductance of the total circuit limiting the current. The voltage depends on the rate of change of current in the coil primary, the inductance of the coil, and the turns ratio of the primary to secondary of the coil. Where resistance does come into play is the primary coil resistance that limits the maximum current in the coil primary during the "contact closed" period, the higher this current the greater the rate of change of current when the contacts (or their electronic equivalent) are opened. Then we get into the higher engine speed scenarios when that primary current has little time to build up, then it is the coil's primary inductance that limits the current, and hence finally the possible voltage.

...

A waste spark system has to travel through 2 ignition wires and jump 2 plug gaps. That requires higher voltages than jumping a single gap and not traveling through any length of ignition wire, like Coil on Plug Systems.

...

Joe
Quite true, but even then it's not that simple.

The unused plug gap will ionise at a lower voltage because the gas pressure is lower. When this happens, as I tried to explain above, the voltage across this gap rapidly drops from its "breakdown" voltage to its "sustain" voltage. When this happens, the voltage difference instantly appears on the working plug gap, and this rapid rise in voltage makes for easier breakdown of the wanted spark.

Which reminds me, in my youth (many, many years ago), many people would put an extra spark gap in series with the spark plug because it would really give an improved spark performance at the plug. It was a case of cut the plug lead, strip a little insulation from the two ends, and wind the exposed wire ends through two opposite holes in a shirt button. This usually helped when the plugs were dirty (which was most of the time with our oil-breathing Triumphs, Nortons and BSAs).

 
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