Speeding

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FJR pig ,,,

well said ,,

interesting invite ,,, but the burger king guy really creeps me out.. :dribble:

With any luck I might get out your way this summer ,,, So if you see a black FJR

with Ohio plates bending the rules a bit ,,,, be gentle,,,,,

As with any military or police ,,,, Thank you for your service ,,,, Old & Slow

 
In response to Jason (FJR_pig),

Thanks for your professional insights.

That was always my assumption; that police driving along the highway go above the speed limit so that they can survey more vehicles. They want to "sneak up" on those dirty speeders from behind. But that concept is seriously flawed. Suppose they are patrolling at 10mph over the speed limit. Most would agree that this would cause little added risk to the public. And, yes, they will see a few more vehicles by doing so, all of which will be going less than the patrol car's speed. Are those the drivers that present the danger to society? The ones they are looking to catch? Savvy speeders just have to make sure they are going faster than the cops patrol at and they would be in fat city! To find that guy going faster, 20 over, 30 over, etc. the patrol car would always have to run faster than the intended quarry. At what point does the speeding patrol car become a larger added danger to the driving public making a net increase in danger?

Logically, the way to monitor the most traffic on any roadway is for the patrol car to be stopped. On a limited access road, stopping in the median allows monitoring both sides and the number of vehicles monitored is the absolute maximum possible. Since this is true, driving along a highway is a relative waste of time, as cars on the opposite side of limited access roads can't be readily reached, and the numbers of cars monitored driving in the same direction would be limited by the speed differential.

By logical extension then, the only times the patrol car should be on the move is when it is responding to a help call, looking for stranded motorists, positioning itself to survey traffic or when actually in pursuit. Only when in pursuit is there any real need to speed, and then the lights should always be on. You said it yourself, you guys are doing traffic control. You aren't sneaking up on bank robbers.

I think that the vast majority of times that you see a police unit speeding it's for only one plain and simple reason. It's the same reason you see a dog licking his nuts: It's because they can. ;)

 
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Fred, maybe they're doing what we've been saying they should all along: looking for violations other than 10 over. Remember, we asked why they didn't stop the woman putting on her makeup; the guy reading a newspaper; the driver obstructing traffic; etc.

Yes, Jason, thanks for your insights. And, 14 years to Lt. (I can't even spell it :lol: ) In the agencies that I'm familiar with, that's not too shabby. Way to go.

 
Logically, the way to monitor the most traffic on any roadway is for the patrol car to be stopped. On a limited access road, stopping in the median allows monitoring both sides and the number of vehicles monitored is the absolute maximum possible. Since this is true, driving along a highway is a relative waste of time, as cars on the opposite side of limited access roads can't be readily reached, and the numbers of cars monitored driving in the same direction would be limited by the speed differential.
Fred, I find your comment disappointing. I'm hopeful that you are or were a cop to hang your comments out there with such an expert tone.

You appear to be from New Hampshire, so I'll assume your knowledge is based on what you see there. I looked it up and New Hampshire's square mileage is 9,279 miles. While my three offices don't patrol the whole state of Oregon, our square mileage out here is 97,073 miles. I also found that the New Hampshire State Police has nearly 400 state troopers. We have just over 500. You can do the math there. In our area of responsibility here around Portland, we do this with an average of 5 troopers at any given moment of the day. As you can imagine, in a metropolitan area, we're quite busy. One location in our area of responsibility, MP 289 on Interstate 5, about 10 miles south of Portland, sees nearly 15,000 vehicles pass through it on any given weekday.

I'm afraid monitoring traffic from a stopped vehicle is not the most logical way to do the job here, at least not all the time. In the area in which my troopers patrol, we have a 397 mile mix of interstate freeways and rural state highways, from the city limits of Portland to the top of Mt. Hood in the Mt. Hood National Forest. (As an aside, this also includes 43 miles of the popular Columbia River Gorge) I'd be willing to bet it's not uncommon for one of my troopers to drive the the same distance as the perimeter of New Hampshire during a normal shift out here.

It's actually pretty uncommon for us to have a section of limited access road where we can sit in the median and respond to incidents on either side. We have concrete barriers, steel cables, rivers, forests and any number of other obstacles that limit crossing the median here. I lived on the east coast as a boy and I've been through New Hampshire a few times. It's much more flat than our territory out here and consequently, it is a different job at times for a state trooper or deputy sheriff. Maybe not for a city cop, but that's not where my experience is.

There is certainly a time and place to sit and work stationary LIDAR, but at the wrong time, it has the same effect as a crash or broken down motorist. Traffic bogs down and crashes occur as brake lights illuminate suddenly when the make-up artist observes the patrol car on the shoulder. Given the state of Oregon's latest economic forecast, our suffering budgets and impending mileage restrictions with patrol cars, we soon may not have a choice...but that's another story.

To your statement that the police would have to drive faster and faster to catch the highest of speeders, that comment is just plain ridiculous. No offense, but it is. If I put myself on the same level as that statement, one would argue that they would eventually overtake us and we'd see them anyway....but that's also assuming we're actually really most concerned about speeders. We're not.

When one of my troops or I am driving on an interstate freeway at a rate faster than other traffic, I actually do find the drivers I want to. I find the driver that doesn't have a seatbelt on or the one with a toddler jumping around unrestrained in the backseat. I get to stop them and hopefully save their life. I find the drunk sucking down a beer can while driving and take him off the road. I find the guy with his lips curled around a marijuana pipe. I find the guy that won't look at me when I look at him because he's got 10 kilos of cocaine hidden in his car or because he's got a warrant for beating up his wife.

To the dog licking the nuts comment, as I said earlier, there are indeed those that do "just because they can," but those officers are seriously in the minority out here. We have far, far fewer police officers than the east coast with much more turf to cover. Our people are professional and time is precious.

If you make it out here someday, give me a shout and we'll go work. As I said earlier, your eyes just might be opened to the reality of this job and the necessities that come with it. Don't take my comments as some self-righteous rant. It just is what it is and I respectfully disagree with your view of my job.

:pig_ball:

 
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When one of my troops or I am driving on an interstate freeway at a rate faster than other traffic, I actually do find the drivers I want to. I find the driver that doesn't have a seatbelt on or the one with a toddler jumping around unrestrained in the backseat. I get to stop them and hopefully save their life. I find the drunk sucking down a beer can while driving and take him off the road. I find the guy with his lips curled around a marijuana pipe. I find the guy that won't look at me when I look at him because he's got 10 kilos of cocaine hidden in his car or because he's got a warrant for beating up his wife.
IMHO, best summation of what dedicated LEO's do!!!

Sportster

 
When one of my troops or I am driving on an interstate freeway at a rate faster than other traffic, I actually do find the drivers I want to. I find the driver that doesn't have a seatbelt on or the one with a toddler jumping around unrestrained in the backseat. I get to stop them and hopefully save their life. I find the drunk sucking down a beer can while driving and take him off the road. I find the guy with his lips curled around a marijuana pipe. I find the guy that won't look at me when I look at him because he's got 10 kilos of cocaine hidden in his car or because he's got a warrant for beating up his wife.
IMHO, best summation of what dedicated LEO's do!!!

Sportster
+1

thanx again

 
Jason, you invited people from this forum to go on a ride along. Doesn't OSP have the same standards Portland Police have that requires background checks?

Don't worry about the naysayers Jason, if you were sitting on the side of a road, others would pick on you for not going out looking for "real criminals."

 
Probably why he wanted to just bite his tougue in the first plce, he knew what was coming. It is usually difficult and more dangerous to catch up to violators from a stopped position also IMHO.

 
Fred, I find your comment disappointing. I'm hopeful that you are or were a cop to hang your comments out there with such an expert tone.
Sorry to disappoint. And I'm by no means any sort of an expert in these matters. These are just my observations as a layman.

Yes, it sounds like your situation out west is completely different than the way things are here in the congested eastern seaboard. Not just New Hampshire, where things are comparatively tame, but in the entire northeast there is a much greater police presence than what you describe in Oregon. It sure seems like a different world in OR.

My comments assumed that the only goal was to catch speeders and that you wanted to see the greatest number of vehicles in a given amount of time. That certainly seems to be the main thing the State Police are concerned with in these parts because they DO just sit on the roadside or in the median most of the time. Given those parameters, being stationary accomplishes that, but clearly doesn't accomplish the other objectives that you mentioned. Makes one wonder about all the stationary cruisers one sees around here.

As to the ridiculousness of my observation that a patrol car has to be driving faster than a speeder to even see them, you didn't provide any reasoning. I don't get why it is "ridiculous". I'm only applying logical thinking. Is that ridiculous? It seems from your tone that you took offense to my observations. I don't really see why as I wasn't talking about YOU and nothing I said was inflammatory. Read through my post again and you'll see I wasn't telling you how you should do your job. I was only making observations about how a cop could see the most speeders.

Oh, and the dog nutz line was humor. The fact that I have to explain that says it wasn't entirely successful. Sorry if it somehow offended.

But I still think that a lot of the time when the police around here drive fast, it's because they can. That's not derogatory. I would drive faster than the speed limit if I was empowered to do that too. In fact, I often do.

 
A "funny" thing happened on my way to work this morning.

A county sheriff pass me just before I entered the local 65mph limited access toll road. (Brief background... it was raining when I left home so I stashed my non-waterproof radar detector in the top box. Damn I sure feel naked without it.)

So I am a couple of car links behind and 2 lanes to the right of the sheriff. As I check my speed I notice that we are doing 20 over the limit, I start thinking about this thread.

After about 10 miles he lights up and I think OH ****. He then kills his lights and slows down to near the speed limit. He takes the next exit and I wave to him (couldn't tell if he saw the wave or not).

I don't know why he he put his lights on (there was a concrete wall dividing us and the north bound lanes) and as I said I did not have my radar on.

I do believe he was on the way to work because the county line is just north of where we got on the toll road. Another observation, he didn't pay the toll.

Bob

 
That's a good question now I wonder about:

what the "rules" about LEO's paying tolls (or have a electronic pay or pass device on their vehicle)

on duty? only on an emergency call? the department pays the toll via electronic device on vehicle?

just curious and I would assume exempted when on duty working, but not when not

Cheers,

Mike in Nawlins'

 
Maybe I am missing something here....shouldn't the LEO be setting the example? Why was he just traveling at high rate of speed? If it was an emergency, he should have been displaying his emergency lights. Maybe he would have felt guilty himself for pulling you over when he wasn't setting the example. Just a thought, thats something I would fight in court.
LEO in Texas told me LEO's in a marked vehicle are not subject to traffic laws. It is NOT mandatory to display lights/siren when speeding, etc. Right or wrong, a LEO can violate any/all traffic laws w/ minimal consequences.

Ummm...what was it you said abt setting an example?

EDIT: The LEO that said this was responding to a question abt the subject matter in this thread. He said this to a class attending traffic school...don't ask.
This is true.....On-duty police units are exempt from speed limits in Texas, doesn't matter if he's going to a homicide or Starbucks. Just as Dr.'s responding to an emergency and state legislators are exempt when the legislature is in session.........Also, emergency vehicles don't pay tolls in Texas

 
When one of my troops or I am driving on an interstate freeway at a rate faster than other traffic, I actually do find the drivers I want to. I find the driver that doesn't have a seatbelt on or the one with a toddler jumping around unrestrained in the backseat. I get to stop them and hopefully save their life. I find the drunk sucking down a beer can while driving and take him off the road. I find the guy with his lips curled around a marijuana pipe. I find the guy that won't look at me when I look at him because he's got 10 kilos of cocaine hidden in his car or because he's got a warrant for beating up his wife.
IMHO, best summation of what dedicated LEO's do!!!

Sportster
+1

thanx again
Now that in the red is a great reason. Seat belts went for you will get a ticket for it if caught doing something else to now the cops are looking for it for a reason to pull you over. another place where our government lied when they put that law in.

 
Seat belts went for you will get a ticket for it if caught doing something else to now the cops are looking for it for a reason to pull you over. another place where our government lied when they put that law in.
Not true, in Oregon, it was always a first level offense when it was enacted. Other states, like Washington (if I remember correctly), it is still a secondary violation.

Different states enacted different laws.

 
Seat belts went for you will get a ticket for it if caught doing something else to now the cops are looking for it for a reason to pull you over. another place where our government lied when they put that law in.
Not true, in Oregon, it was always a first level offense when it was enacted. Other states, like Washington (if I remember correctly), it is still a secondary violation.

Different states enacted different laws.
That was the selling point to get it passed in my state and the states around me. Of course the also said that gambling money would go to schools and decrease our property taxes. Can you say general fund.

 
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