Startup Pre-ignition

[YooperDick]

The '08FJR has a peculiar annoyance. When initially starting up from cold, after two or three seconds there is a (what seems to be) pre-ignition on one cylinder. This will happen two or three more times within 10 seconds before abating. The jolt can be felt in the handle bars and is not very subtle. If I wick up the throttle a little at startup (2500 rpm) the number of pre-igns is reduced to one. Any ideas as to the cause of this?

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Yooper,

Sounds like a strange one to me. I would call Yamaha Corp Headquarters number in Cypress CA 800-962-7926, to document this and then take it to the shop to be sure.

Good Luck with your fix and let us know what the problem was.

 

[Ignacio]

It does seem weird if it's pre-ignition.

I would wonder if it's not a cam chain tensioner that sound a bit like pre-ignition and is usually RPM dependent. However, I think the tensioner is usually quiet when cold and noisy when warmed up...so that seems backwards to this one......hmmmm.

I think 03HiYo has some good advice.

 

[ionbeam]

Have your dealer check the noise to get it on record.

You are most likely hearing noise associated with the Air Induction System that is active until the thermostat opens and the ECU goes from the cold enrichment FI routine to the standard FI operating map. This involves a solenoid and 4 reed valves which induct air into the exhaust stream which sometimes causes popping and other noises in the exhaust. The condition will be worse if one or more cylinders are too rich.

 

[YooperDick]

This isn't a popping noise from the exhaust. It is coming from the engine and can be felt in the handgrips when it occurs; more like a clunk or the sound associated with the shifting of gears.

I'll give them a call and document the problem. Thanks, guys.

 

[747black08]

I also have an 08 and I hear a clunk noise one time about 7 seconds after starting but only if the engine is cold,it sounds like the bike is trying to engage into a gear or not fully in neutral so I keep checking to make sure its fully in neutral. don't know if this is the same noise you hear.

 

[radman]

I will hazard a guess that it's lean popping, which the air cleaner muffles well, but would display the characteristics you mention. It's a miss, will involve any of the cylinders or all of them (not all at once though, will move around) until you get some heat in the chambers, will disappear 5-20 seconds after start. The "jolt" is the imbalance caused by a momentary dead hole. More prevalent in colder weather. Caused by a lean cold start condition, nothing to worry about, better than it flooding the piss out of the motor, which will destroy ring seal from wall washing as well as contaminate the oil. Can be cured by performing the Barbarian mod, do a search here for peculiarities involved with Gen II bikes once you understand the basics.

 

[Greb]

Mine does this too, It does it right after start and I associate it with a cold engine. It never does it once it is warmed up. I can live with it.

 

[GPRIDER]

I will hazard a guess that it's lean popping, which the air cleaner muffles well, but would display the characteristics you mention. It's a miss, will involve any of the cylinders or all of them (not all at once though, will move around) until you get some heat in the chambers, will disappear 5-20 seconds after start. The "jolt" is the imbalance caused by a momentary dead hole. More prevalent in colder weather. Caused by a lean cold start condition, nothing to worry about, better than it flooding the piss out of the motor, which will destroy ring seal from wall washing as well as contaminate the oil. Can be cured by performing the Barbarian mod, do a search here for peculiarities involved with Gen II bikes once you understand the basics.

Hey Rad, I thought I read on this forum somewhere the Barbarian mod would not work on the Gen IIs. Am I thinking about something else? My 08 does the same as the others above.

GP

 

[Rondo777]

Mine was actually missing when I first got it. It was only when cold and was a hard enough hit that I could feel it vibrate thru the bike. A new set of plugs eliminated it. I installed Iridiums at 4k miles and at 12k it still hasnt missed again.

 

[radman]

Hey Rad, I thought I read on this forum somewhere the Barbarian mod would not work on the Gen IIs. Am I thinking about something else? My 08 does the same as the others above.GP

It works. Try This

 

[gregory]

Mine will do this when cold also. It almost seems like it wants to run backwards for just a second.

Greg

 

[ELP_JC]

Interesting subject. I just came back from my first longish trip on this bike, and when started it for the first time in the cold (it was in the high 40s), all suited up, earplugs and all, I heard this 'knocking' sound that sounded like oil starvation, but obviously more subtle. Nothing worrysome, but it caught my attention. Maybe my 15/50 Mobil1 oil? But it's well within that temp range, plus it lasted about a minute or two, until motor heated up some. Bike fired up instantly, by the way, unlike my previous BMW K1200RS; a pleasant surprise. I'm curious of what is it too. Any solid evidence? And future replies should include oil used. Thx.

I have the new ECU on my '07, which did eliminate the altitude stumbling, and I kept at the stock 5,18,18,21 CO levels, since raising them doesn't eliminate the slight stumble upon a quick blip. Mileage was incredible at 45+ with a lot of near-ton speeds, and it went to 50 on the mountains, with still plenty of 80/85 mph cruising on straights, so don't plan to mess with the CO levels, but I'd like to eliminate that knocking if possible. Later.

JC

 

[YooperDick]

It would seem from the responses this is a peculiarity restricted to the '08. Furthermore, it would seem this is not a problem due to manufacturing error, but rather an issue associated with the '08 computer map attempting to resolve the fuel/air mixture in a cold start environment.

I hate to use the word 'seem' because it is so indefinite, but it 'seems' to apply here.

 

[csimon1]

Same issue with mine. I have a '08 with only 600 miles on it and was wondering if I should take it in to have it checked. Not always happens and when it does, it is within the first 60 seconds of starting it. 55 degrees this morning and it didn't happen. I've just changed oil and that didn't change anything.

 

[radman]

It would seem from the responses this is a peculiarity restricted to the '08. Furthermore, it would seem this is not a problem due to manufacturing error, but rather an issue associated with the '08 computer map attempting to resolve the fuel/air mixture in a cold start environment.
I hate to use the word 'seem' because it is so indefinite, but it 'seems' to apply here.

Doesn't quite work that way. Cold start is in open loop, pre-defined mapping. They've done it since the first bikes came ashore AFAIK. Seems to lessen as broken in, but still is there, mostly on cold mornings with nice, dense, cold air defeating the rich setting that accompanies the cold start program. The lack of heat in the TB's prevents full atomization of the liquid fuel, so it precipitates (this is why richer mix is required on cold start/run-the fuel resists vaporization, so more is required to satisfy engine demands) and returns to a liquid state and pools onto the TB's floor. This also explains why it's a bad idea to start then quickly shut off a cold motor-the liquid fuel tends to wet the spark plug while also resisting ignition once ingested on an attempted restart. EPA mandates 2 minutes for cold run mapping before closed loop begins, and engine management systems come on line. The AIR system is also in operation cold, to supply fresh air to help the cats get lit.

 

[Rondo777]

It would seem from the responses this is a peculiarity restricted to the '08. Furthermore, it would seem this is not a problem due to manufacturing error, but rather an issue associated with the '08 computer map attempting to resolve the fuel/air mixture in a cold start environment.
I hate to use the word 'seem' because it is so indefinite, but it 'seems' to apply here.

Mines an 06, again, new plugs, problem solved.

 

[YooperDick]

Thanks for clarifying that. Is it possible the pre-defined open-loop mapping is new for the '08 and subsequently causes this issue until the loop is closed? I suspect possible but not probable.

 

[Jay H]

I have an 07 AE and it does the same thing. I did the barbarian mod and raised the CO levels and it still has the knock after a couple of seconds (just not quite as severe); essentially on cold start only.