Steel Braided Brake Lines

[Bike Effects]

I believe Barabus is the Guinea Pig for Gafler.

They have not returned my calls. I don't know how serious they are about this? In fact, I meantioned that I could be up there any time and I have a service manual for thier usage, but still haven't heard from them in over a week. In other words, don't hold your breath for anything ASAP. I know that they make a top notch product when they finish the design. Besides, how many people will do the 9 or so lines on thier ABS GenII bikes. Maybe they are reconsidering? Certainly thier marketing knows, but we will need Smitty back on the West to do installs again. LOL I hope it all comes together in a first rate product for the FJR community.

I'm going to be on them like white on rice in the morning. I was not aware that you were having problems. I'll let you know. Email me your phone number again just in case my notes are bad.

[email protected]

 

[Lake Powell]

Do you honestly think that Yamaha engineers would put out a brake line that would not perform to the standards that are required by the manufacturing associating as well as for the publics safety?
Steel brake lines is nothing more than a gimick and it also is called 'Marketing'

I have some ocean front property in Kansas would you like to buy some? Oh it is low tide the water will be back later in the day.

Sticking with stock and no problem stopping.

spongy brakes= air moiture in your brakes= failure, have you ever failed to stop because of water?? Myths how people believe them over the actual facts..

Brake fluid operating temp. 400f-- dot 4 water boils at 212f at sea level ever reach boiling temp of water let alone brake fluid on your bike? Do not think so, operating temp of oem brake line will with stand oem temp. of brake fluid.( facts vs myths. )

If you were running an enduro or a hound and hare than I can understand steel brake lines

The no non sense approach saves me money with facts not myths......... weekend rider

I think yamaha engineers would put on stainless steel braided brake lines if they had a option. As a former mechanical engineer myself I can understand the compromises made between what would be optimum and what will establish a price point. As an airline pilot my aircraft uses stainless steel braided lines for all hydraulic needs requiring a flexable hose application because volume changes within lines are hard to compensate for as well as the duability of steel braided hoses.

Look at any high end performance car or bike where the price is expected to have the best, they have braided brake lines.

Sure, many don't need it or can tell the difference, but for the best peformance braided brake lines are the general rule.

I don't mind spending the money for something like this, but to each his own..........

 

[C&C]

If you are planning to keep your bike for a good long time, it is probably good to go stainless. Yamaha recommends changing the lines out at four years so they know that some degredation will, and is occurring. Going to stainless is a one time, your done, deal. (though your still need to bleed on a regular basis; say once a year) And, I will agree, at least to me, that I couldn't notice a difference in feel; both sets of lines (original Yamaha and Speigler) were excellent.

 

[dobias]

After hitting a deer a few years ago I decided I had to improve my braking. Even though they were bled to a fair-thee-well with new fluid, I felt they were not as responsive as they should be. After replacing all lines on my '04 ABS to SS, I added the pads that came with the group buy. They were no better than stock but the feel of the brakes (& clutch, too) was dramatic. I later replaced them with EBC pads & had additional improvement.

To each his own, but I'd never go back to stock lines again.

I know my brakes now are as good as I can make them. Last year, on a recent emergency stop with my wife aboard, the back wheel left the ground by six inches (as verified by riders behind me).

dobias :glare:

 

[Shadow]

the back wheel left the ground by six inches

The originals will do the same.

If you did some braking distance tests with the original then the stainless, you may be surprised that they will probably be the same.

Knowning you have stainless gives you the idea that they will be better so you think they are better, puts things into your mind.

Only way to really know, test.

 

[jestal]

Think about how the brakes work for a moment.

As you move the lever the least bit of pressure moves the pads and takes the "freeplay" out of the system. At this little pressure there is no way even a solid steel brake line is going to "feel" any different as it takes very little pressure to begin brake application. So little that even a wimpy, unreinforced hose would "feel" fine.

Once the freeplay is taken out of the system brake apply pressure should build with added lever movement/pressure. If the line is "giving" then the lever would move further to make up the additional fluid in the pressure side of the system. I measured the amount of lever movement with full force on my front brakes on my FJR before and after installing the braided stainless lines. It was exactly the same. Therefore, no effect from changing to braided lines in terms of lever force/movement vs. braking effort.

There are some reasons for braided lines in the industry. They can have higher temp capability (rarely needed) and well as abrasion resistence compared to plain "rubber" brake hose. By the same token, braided lines can saw thru other materials which makes them a liability if other things come into contact with them. The braided lines are also not as flexible and therefore not nearly as forgiving for routing and suspension movement over time. Braided lines are not nearly as forgiving for being pinched and crushed compared to the OEM style lines. The plastic/teflon lining of the braided lines can easily be cracked/damaged if pinched or kinked compared to the OEM lines. Most of the time it is easier to have a custom braided line made up for one-offs or limited production applications as the fittings for braided lines are somewhat universal and readily available. Plus, most of the time when people are replacing brake lines they go for the "premium" braided material so most places just carry the braided line. Not much demand for the same old OEM brake line material.... So, there are compelling reasons to use the OEM style lines in OEM applications.

Yamaha says to replace the OEM lines every few years as a liability dodge. The OEM style brake lines are in service in many appliactions and performing perfectly fine after 20 or 30 or 40 years or longer. When is the last time you heard of anyone having a brake line fail on a car or bike....??? Or when is the last time you replaced the OEM brake lines on your car?? There are old cars (and old motorcycles) running around all the time with the original brake hoses on them with no problems. I doubt seriously that the braided lines will last any longer than the OEM style of rubber coated lines.

Keep in mind that the OEM lines are heavily reinforced internally and not just rubber hose.

Once again, I'm not slamming braided lines. I like the way they look and have them on my bikes. Just don't expect braking miracles from them nor ascribe magical properties to them. They work the same as the OEM style lines .... they just cost more.

 

[05fjrman]

That is very true Jestal, I know I was dissapointed at first with my stainless lines. I guess I was expecting miracles, and didn't get them. The place where the stainless lines differ is when you hammer the brakes, like a panic stop. Then you do get more pressure on the pads, as NONE of the force is expanding the lines, and it's all pushing on the caliper pistons. Outright stopping force won't differ, unless you put different pads, rotors or calipers on. But there is no doubt you get a harder lever, or pedal, with stainless lines.

 

[evil_henchman]

When I hear people talking about the FJR's brakes needing to be improved I have to wonder how many other bikes they've ridden. The FJR has great brakes. Some bikes have pretty dramatic improvement with braided lines, take any dirt bike or most dual sports for instance. Though in the dirt it's really not an "improvement".

I have no problem engaging the ABS on my FJR with plain 'ol rubber lines. Braided lines would only make it worse for me as I'm way too heavy handed (and footed). Those who can control with a light touch or have carpal tunnel or just don't have any grip strength would probably like 'em. They look kinda cool if nothing else.

 

[jestal]

That is very true Jestal, I know I was dissapointed at first with my stainless lines. I guess I was expecting miracles, and didn't get them. The place where the stainless lines differ is when you hammer the brakes, like a panic stop. Then you do get more pressure on the pads, as NONE of the force is expanding the lines, and it's all pushing on the caliper pistons. Outright stopping force won't differ, unless you put different pads, rotors or calipers on. But there is no doubt you get a harder lever, or pedal, with stainless lines.

It still doesn't matter even in a panic stop. If you put as much force on the lever as possible...i.e..as much hydraulic pressure as the master cylinder can make and the lines don't "expand" (as proven by measuring the lever travel at max effort with and without the braided lines) in either case then it is not going to matter whether you are sitting in your garage squeezing the lever or making a panic stop.