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Never cross over into opposing traffic. There is rarely enough time to think about what's the best way to avoid impending disaster. You have to rely on learned reaction and moving to the right as the other driver approaches from your left is the learned reaction.
Found myself in just that situation last month Greg..

Came in a bit hot, unfamiliar road and bike. Nothing wrong with Don's lucy, but I've grown accustomed to mine and it's suspension upgrades.Front end started to chatter and felt as though it was going to wash out.

Anyway, though instinct was hollering hit the brakes, I managed to shut it down and stay on it while dragging a few parts.

Yes I crossed over the center about a foot or so for maybe 100 feet, but thankfully the lane was open. I know if had had allowed the voice in my head to direct me I would have taken far more of the opposing lane.

I'd learned her limitations without damage, but I did leave a skidmark in me shorts. :blink: I road like an old man for a spell after that.

 
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One thing to think about... say you're in the position of the corvette driver (in a car, on your bike, whatever). I think the odds are in your favor if you swerve in (not out, the way the vette did) to avoid the out of control motorcyclist. Hopefully no one is right behind the motorcyclist. But the reason I think that would be better is this: If a motorcyclist is coming around the corner and is about out of control... what are the odds they're going to recover and go back in their lane?
Never cross over into opposing traffic. There is rarely enough time to think about what's the best way to avoid impending disaster. You have to rely on learned reaction and moving to the right as the other driver approaches from your left is the learned reaction. Also, if you do something that is not what other drivers expect, even if it seems like the better alternative, it can make the situation worse by drawing other vehicles into the mess. The only time you may not want to go to he right is on a multi-lane highway.
Sorry but I still disagree. I'm well aware of that if someone is behind the out of control motorcyclist that could make the situation worse. That's really obvious.

It's also obvious what the learned reaction is. It's instinctual, to want to move away and avoid the collision. it's what anyone would normally do without thinking.

But I still say there's going to be a fraction of a second one will have to make a decision, and still be able to swerve the other way. And if in that time, you see the rider (like this one in the beginning of the turn) isn't going to make it... well... swerving to the right is simply an inevitable crash, I mean he's already leaned the bike as absolutely far as he could, he's obviously going too fast for his abilities, there's no recovery for him.

Mostly I think of this because of that guy named Mac. Quite a few years ago he did more or less the same thing this rider did (it too was at The Gap), lost control in a corner and went too wide. In his case, he side swiped a motorcyclist coming in the other direction... and cut the guys leg off.

So yeah, if the other rider had swerved left then immediately back to the right, he may have been able to avoid the entire thing...

 
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Never cross over into opposing traffic. There is rarely enough time to think about what's the best way to avoid impending disaster. You have to rely on learned reaction and moving to the right as the other driver approaches from your left is the learned reaction. Also, if you do something that is not what other drivers expect, even if it seems like the better alternative, it can make the situation worse by drawing other vehicles into the mess. The only time you may not want to go to he right is on a multi-lane highway.
Sorry but I still disagree. I'm well aware of that if someone is behind the out of control motorcyclist that could make the situation worse. That's really obvious.

It's also obvious what the learned reaction is. It's instinctual, to want to move away and avoid the collision. it's what anyone would normally do without thinking.

But I still say there's going to be a fraction of a second one will have to make a decision, and still be able to swerve the other way. And if in that time, you see the rider (like this one in the beginning of the turn) isn't going to make it... well... swerving to the right is simply an inevitable crash, I mean he's already leaned the bike as absolutely far as he could, he's obviously going too fast for his abilities, there's no recovery for him.

Mostly I think of this because of that guy named Mac. Quite a few years ago he did more or less the same thing this rider did (it too was at The Gap), lost control in a corner and went too wide. In his case, he side swiped a motorcyclist coming in the other direction... and cut the guys leg off.

So yeah, if the other rider had swerved left then immediately back to the right, he may have been able to avoid the entire thing...
Sorry Azitiles...You're on the wrong track with this one. You are free to argue your point all you want, but 15 years of experience trumps theories and belief every time.

In a perfect, theoretical world, your proposal may be the better reaction, but it's missing too many variables.

First, the Dragon is heavily traveled. What's the bike/car/truck behind the offending bike supposed go do when his lane is suddenly full of Corvette? The Corvette driver is experiencing tunnel vision too and is not processing much beyond the collision he's about to experience. Breaking that tunnel vision takes extensive practice and is hard to do.

That driver absolutely does not want to move left into the oncoming lane. The offending rider is in that predicament because of his mistakes, but the people behind him are most likely in their lane. Also, that crash is going to be a sideswipe collision, where moving to the left would probably result in a full face head on collision with a much higher rate of fatality.

In the depicted crash, all the responsibility lies with the MC rider. If the Corvette driver had moved left and avoided that rider, but hit another, he would hold the responsibility for crossing the center line and causing the crash.

A few years ago, I responded to a crash where a guy, illegally driving a tractor trailer, did just what you're suggesting. He was traveling south on a 4 lane road separated by a double yellow. Something happened in front of him. Don't remember what for sure, but I think the guy in front braked hard. The truck driver was going to hit the first guy and braked and swerved.

The road shoulder on the truck driver's right was sloped, so he was afraid he may roll the truck and get fired, so he swerved left, over the double yellow into oncoming traffic. He hit a plummer in his work van and crushed him between the steering column and the protective steel cage that prevented the supplies from flying forward.

The van driver died a horrible death. I sent the truck driver to prison for vehicular homicide. He shouldn't have been driving the truck, and he purposely went left because he didn't want to get yelled at. There is almost no valid excuse for moving into an oncoming lane...Read any states lane laws.

In the Dragon wreck the guy lived and the Corvette owner has to replace his car. Big deal. That's what insurance is for. The MC rider's insurance is gonna cover it anyway. Cars are easily replaced. If the Corvette driver had killed an innocent rider who was riding in his own lane, that's not so easy to recover...or if the on coming vehicle had been a semi-truck, the 'Vette guy prolly woulda bought the farm.

All scenarios suck, but moving left would have been the worst possible reaction in that instance.

 
Never cross over into opposing traffic. There is rarely enough time to think about what's the best way to avoid impending disaster. You have to rely on learned reaction and moving to the right as the other driver approaches from your left is the learned reaction. Also, if you do something that is not what other drivers expect, even if it seems like the better alternative, it can make the situation worse by drawing other vehicles into the mess. The only time you may not want to go to he right is on a multi-lane highway.
Sorry but I still disagree. I'm well aware of that if someone is behind the out of control motorcyclist that could make the situation worse. That's really obvious.

It's also obvious what the learned reaction is. It's instinctual, to want to move away and avoid the collision. it's what anyone would normally do without thinking.

But I still say there's going to be a fraction of a second one will have to make a decision, and still be able to swerve the other way. And if in that time, you see the rider (like this one in the beginning of the turn) isn't going to make it... well... swerving to the right is simply an inevitable crash, I mean he's already leaned the bike as absolutely far as he could, he's obviously going too fast for his abilities, there's no recovery for him.

Mostly I think of this because of that guy named Mac. Quite a few years ago he did more or less the same thing this rider did (it too was at The Gap), lost control in a corner and went too wide. In his case, he side swiped a motorcyclist coming in the other direction... and cut the guys leg off.

So yeah, if the other rider had swerved left then immediately back to the right, he may have been able to avoid the entire thing...
Sorry Azitiles...You're on the wrong track with this one. You are free to argue your point all you want, but 15 years of experience trumps theories and belief every time.

In a perfect, theoretical world, your proposal may be the better reaction, but it's missing too many variables.

First, the Dragon is heavily traveled. What's the bike/car/truck behind the offending bike supposed go do when his lane is suddenly full of Corvette? The Corvette driver is experiencing tunnel vision too and is not processing much beyond the collision he's about to experience. Breaking that tunnel vision takes extensive practice and is hard to do.

That driver absolutely does not want to move left into the oncoming lane. The offending rider is in that predicament because of his mistakes, but the people behind him are most likely in their lane. Also, that crash is going to be a sideswipe collision, where moving to the left would probably result in a full face head on collision with a much higher rate of fatality.

In the depicted crash, all the responsibility lies with the MC rider. If the Corvette driver had moved left and avoided that rider, but hit another, he would hold the responsibility for crossing the center line and causing the crash.

A few years ago, I responded to a crash where a guy, illegally driving a tractor trailer, did just what you're suggesting. He was traveling south on a 4 lane road separated by a double yellow. Something happened in front of him. Don't remember what for sure, but I think the guy in front braked hard. The truck driver was going to hit the first guy and braked and swerved.

The road shoulder on the truck driver's right was sloped, so he was afraid he may roll the truck and get fired, so he swerved left, over the double yellow into oncoming traffic. He hit a plummer in his work van and crushed him between the steering column and the protective steel cage that prevented the supplies from flying forward.

The van driver died a horrible death. I sent the truck driver to prison for vehicular homicide. He shouldn't have been driving the truck, and he purposely went left because he didn't want to get yelled at. There is almost no valid excuse for moving into an oncoming lane...Read any states lane laws.

In the Dragon wreck the guy lived and the Corvette owner has to replace his car. Big deal. That's what insurance is for. The MC rider's insurance is gonna cover it anyway. Cars are easily replaced. If the Corvette driver had killed an innocent rider who was riding in his own lane, that's not so easy to recover...or if the on coming vehicle had been a semi-truck, the 'Vette guy prolly woulda bought the farm.

All scenarios suck, but moving left would have been the worst possible reaction in that instance.
You cite a lot of scenarios to prove your point, and rightfully so.

But let's re visit... what about the one I cite? Mac? the guy on the bike that side swiped the other rider and maimed him for the rest of his life? The other guy was on a bike, not in an 18 wheeler or a vette, both very slow to react, the 18 wheeler especially.

Let's revisit this again... I said it was something to think about! not to definitely do in every situation. There are obviously situations one would not want to do something like this. but then again, there may be some one would...

basically, make your choice and live (hopefully) with the consequences...

that's what's meant by "think about it..."

 
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Thinking about it and training are two different things. If you are lucky, some focused training on evasive maneuvers might save your life. Accidents are split second events.

You get a chance to make one move when someone right in front of you makes an unexpected move that llooks to impact against you. If you make the right move AND the other guy makes the right move, sometimes you win.

In this Dragon event, one guy makes a bad move, the other guy makes the right move, the original guy makes an even worse move. Target fixation - bad move. The right move...don't do stupid sh!t, but if you do find yourself in a pickle...LOOK where you want to go...NOT at what's gonna hurt you.

Look where YOU want to go...and you will go there. Remembering this and doing this in 2005 likely saved my life. This after being reminded of this...on the FJRForum.

Accidents are "bang bang" plays. You usually don't have time to ponder things. Make the right decision right away...and hopefully you come out of it alive.

 
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Thinking about it and training are two different things. If you are lucky, some focused training on evasive maneuvers might save your life. Accidents are split second events.

You get a chance to make one move when someone right in front of you makes an unexpected move that llooks to impact against you. If you make the right move AND the other guy makes the right move, sometimes you win.

In this Dragon event, one guy makes a bad move, the other guy makes the right move, the original guy makes an even worse move. Target fixation - bad move. The right move...don't do stupid sh!t, but if you do find yourself in a pickle...LOOK where you want to go...NOT at what's gonna hurt you.

Look where YOU want to go...and you will go there. Remembering this and doing this in 2005 likely saved my life. This after being reminded of this...on the FJRForum.

Accidents are "bang bang" plays. You usually don't have time to ponder things. Make the right decision right away...and hopefully you come out of it alive.

WheatonFJR is of course correct. these are split second decisions.

One thing to think about re "Target Fixation" would be this: if the vette got out of the way (let's say by moving left)... would the guy on the bike now stop target fixation?

My response would be absolutely the **** not... he would now be fixating on the trees just behind the vette... and still be out of control.

We fixate because we think the crash is inevitable. We're out of control and unable to do anything but stare at the crash. If they move out of the way... we're still crashing... into what's behind them...

Remember guys, look back at Busts post... yes!! sometimes riders will recover! But you need to be a good rider to do that. Yes, one that is on the edge, but hasn't lost control completely, just yet any way.

The guy on the cruiser? He's leaned as far as the bike will let him! the mufflers are about 1 inch from the pavement! There's no more room! And!! he's still going too fast for the corner!! where the **** do u think he's going from there?

No... really... where the **** is he going from there? besides into u?

 
IMHO, his first mistake is not dealing properly with the distraction (the cameraman). Frames 1-7, he's looking straight at the camera, doesn't even start to look back at the road ahead till frame 8. Frames 9&10, unless he's way too hot, he should have the situation handled by chopping the throttle and trail braking (remember, you just can't go that fast on this stretch of road on a loaded cruiser). Frame 11, he's starting to come out of his bank- the exact wrong thing to do, beginning of fixation. Frames 12-18, he straightens completely up and steers straight into the Vette. Obviously panicked and target fixated. The Vette driver seems to assume the biker will do the intelligent thing (keep it over on the right peg, slow as much as possible, and just swing a little wide on the curve), so he gives him as much room as he can. Don't know how long this guy has been riding, but he should have known the dangers inherent in this stretch of road and been prepared to deal with them properly.

 
Fluids all over the road??? I didn't see anything to indicate that in the posted shots.

Maybe the wrecker dumped shit.
I 100% agree, I saw no oil or anything. Of course, it could have leaked out while the bike was lying there.

Let me start off by saying that I am not on the Graham County NC board of tourism. I do have a couple things I would like to add though.

First, my personal reaction to seeing Killboy on the side of the road my first time through there was to SLOW DOWN! I thought there was a wreck on the side of the road. A high percentage of the crashes they get pics of are someone who is trying to show off for the camera, either to make the highlights or to get a good pic of themselves. I messed mine up because I was going so slowly.

Second, while I can't say for sure one way or the other, the second rider who was supposedly injured in these "fluids" sounds suspect to me. I can tell you for a fact that Killboy and company keep brooms with them, they make it a point to keep the road surface in front of their cameras clean. They would not have sat there with slippery fluids on the road right next to them. I am 100% certain of that.

Third, this road is what you make of it. It is overly abused by idiots, it is overly hyped by the well meaning. I have ridden it and driven it. It can be one of the most rewarding 11 miles of motorcycling east of the Mississippi River. It can be a complete pain in the butt. An often overlooked fact is that if it is ridden at a reduced pace, it is an extremely beautiful place to ride. Of course, you have to pick your day and time.

Last, this guy wrecked because of his own error. Not because Darryl "Killboy" Cannon was there to take pics.

 
Last, this guy wrecked because of his own error. Not because Darryl "Killboy" Cannon was there to take pics.
I agree with all that you said, but just as a fact straightener. These photos were not taken by Killboy, but by a similar type photographer.

 
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