Suggestions for a response to Yamaha

[burnergold2B]

Search for the part yourself. I've seen similar sh*t with BMWs breaking down in Canada. BMW says it'll be 10 days before *they* can get the part to the dealer working on it, but said customer has it Overnighted from "Bob's BMW", and are back on the road before the 5th day. So, who's the "Bob's" in our Yamaha world? University? D&H?

Otherwise, suck it up after telling the finance company you want 6 weeks free payments on your Lemon. I know, it's sour and doesn't help much.

 

[FJRAust]

I'm not down playing this type of annoying situation or your frustration with Yamaha's incompetence.

Not really a major disaster It's an aggravation.

If you think the bike is safe to ride, get it back until the parts arrive.

Is it worth challenging the corporation, what a lot of hassle, I'd rather be out riding.

But then maybe I'm taking through my ***, I have 12 months of the year to ride, I understand many don't.

 

[a99miata]

I would push for at least 6 weeks add on to the warrenty, also check with the state lemon law people. Make a formal complaint. You may be the 1st of many for a recall action. :clapping:

 

[SecuLaw]

I'm not down playing this type of annoying situation or your frustration with Yamaha's incompetence.Not really a major disaster It's an aggravation.

If you think the bike is safe to ride, get it back until the parts arrive.

Is it worth challenging the corporation, what a lot of hassle, I'd rather be out riding.

But then maybe I'm taking through my ***, I have 12 months of the year to ride, I understand many don't.

While I understand the "it's not worth the aggravation" comments, in my profession I eat and breath conflict on a daily basis. What will occur, I'm sure, is a negotiation as to how to address the loss of a minimum of 6 week use of my bike. Some think that's a hassle, I find it enjoyable.

As to getting the bike back, the dealer claims it is not ridable in its current condition and unsafe without the part. I don't have the expertise to know if he's bullshitting me or not so, at this point, I have to defer to his statement.

 

[Rondo777]

I would think it should be handled the same as a car. If you have a car under warrentee and its out of commission becouse of a covered issue the dealer supplies you with a loaner or a rental while your cars down. I'd be bitching that this is my transportation and you need to be compensated until its back on the road.

 

[murf]

I took my 2007 in on December 1 to get the new ECU, have some adjustments made, oil change and I had recently noticed that the rear brake was not operating well. The dealer calls and tells me that a part of the ABS for the rear brake (apportioning value if I understand correctly: part number 3P6-25940-00-00) is defective and will need to be replaced under warranty. Dealer orders the ECU and the brake part on December 4. Takes a few days for the ECU to arrive but the dealer is told by Yamaha that they don't know when the brake part will arrive. I wait three weeks and call back to learn that this part does not exist anywhere in the US and we have to wait until it ships from Japan. And the workers in Japan are on a three week vacation! The earliest it will ship is January 8, 2008. So essentially, I'm without my bike for 6 weeks because Yamaha doesn't stock its parts warehouse very well (the downside to "just in time" manufacturing?) Now do you think the Yamaha Finance thinks I can skip a payment while my bike is on hold? Nope. I've been speaking with the Yamaha customer service and they confirmed what I already knew but they are "looking into it" and will get back to me. I'm still waiting.
So I'm without my FJR for a minimum of 6 weeks, still responsible for paying for it during that time, solely as a result of their manufacturing defect and inability to correctly stock parts in the US.

Any suggestions on what I request for recompense? Or am I full of crap and should just suck it up and move on?

Since the proportioning valve is not a commonly replaced maintenance item, few if any dealers at all will have it in stock. Heck, sometimes even commonly replaced maint. items are not in stock. Thank the "just in time" manufacturing and delivery process for that. Just in time manufacturing and delivery has cut costs, but it really sucks when you go to get a replacement air filter and the dealer doesn't have it in stock, but says "I'll have it for you tomorrow.

I haven't seen a financial contract that says you don't have to pay or we will wait until the item is fixed if a motor vehicle that you purchased on credit breaks down. They want their money regardless.

Hope the part you need comes in a timely manner and you are back in the saddle again.

 

[painman]

Just a side here that no one has mentioned, like in the auto industry parts availability usually aren't forthcoming really for 2 to 3 years. That is they can be ordered from the manufacture but not readilly available off the shelf. I do not pretend to have inside knowledge on this but this could also be a factor in the problem. Just a thought. PM. <><

 

[FJR@DTS]

+1 on the loner bike. If they are keeping your bike and you need it for transportation, then I'd be asking for a replacement. :assassin:

 

[Dan23]

So I'm without my FJR for a minimum of 6 weeks, still responsible for paying for it during that time, solely as a result of their manufacturing defect and inability to correctly stock parts in the US.

I call ******** on the "we can't get parts" - I'm sure the dealership **** just wants to sit on his *** for the holidays, if they're anything like most of the guys I've met in Florida. The dealerships in Florida are so bad, I bought my FJR in Tennessee. I think I have finally found a knowledgeable/ethical one in Sanford just this week.

A recommended dealer in Sanford, FL? Please name the dealer in case I need a dealer while there. Thanks.

 

[FJRAust]

While I understand the "it's not worth the aggravation" comments, in my profession I eat and breath conflict on a daily basis. What will occur, I'm sure, is a negotiation as to how to address the loss of a minimum of 6 week use of my bike. Some think that's a hassle, I find it enjoyable. As to getting the bike back, the dealer claims it is not ridable in its current condition and unsafe without the part. I don't have the expertise to know if he's bullshitting me or not so, at this point, I have to defer to his statement.

Sured SecuLaw, if you enjoy the challenge go for it. I wish someone would take up some of these type of issues for me.

Maybe the suggestion of a loan bike is a great alternative. If I understand correctly loan bikes are supplied by Yamaha, so there shouldn't be any financial impact on the dealer. It's an opportunity to try a new type of bike. Consider it a lengthy test ride.

I've enjoyed the few loan bikes I've had over the years.

 

[mattster31]

Dude, its just your rear brake. Who needs it

Amen brother!!! :yahoo:

I have been riding 20+ years and have used my rear brake maybe 20 times??

Personally I would just keep riding it until the parts came in. No sense in you having to suffer for their incompetence :dribble:

If you lived up here it wouldn't matter anyway though :angry2: :blink:

 

[SecuLaw]

Dude, its just your rear brake. Who needs it

Amen brother!!! :yahoo:

I have been riding 20+ years and have used my rear brake maybe 20 times??

Personally I would just keep riding it until the parts came in. No sense in you having to suffer for their incompetence :dribble:

If you lived up here it wouldn't matter anyway though :angry2: :blink:

The dealer won't give it back. Claims it is unsafe to ride. Yamaha was suppose to call me back either Friday or Monday; no one did. I will call on Wednesday and report the results of that conversation.

 

[FJRay]

I don't believe they can prevent you from taking your property home. If you chose to ride it and **** happens then it is on you but its your bike and what you do is up to you.

When I worked on cars in Ca. I tried to prevent a customer from taking their car with unsafe brakes and the CHP told me that they could take the car if they wanted to.

 

[CRMH Eagle]

Oh, so that's what that silver handle is for??

You do not have any recourse with the finance company. The finance terms already have in place for a situation such as this. It doesn't matter if you have full control or not over your property... you owe the debt. Until you legally satisfy the debt with the payoff amount there is nothing you can do EVEN if a Yamaha dealership took unrightful possession of your bike. Going to small claims court will not bring a judgement in your favor. Per the finance agreement, you do not have a violation of the contract thus only a judge that is either drunk or has no law background would rule in your favor. You can't get a mechanics lien on the bike since the finance company has probably already perfected the lien.

Thus is the way it goes with mortgages and loans: all the finance company is concerned with is the property is adequately insured since it protects them, and, the property is used for it's legal purpose.

If the dealership is a decent one they should find some way to make it up to ya.... discounted parts, free parts, whatever.

You can contact the finance company and they may be willing to forgo one month's payment for you. But, interest will still accrue and you'd be better off just continuing to pay. Look at it this way, these next 6 weeks go ahead and do stuff now so that when the full-blown riding season is here those things are out of the way.

 

[SecuLaw]

I don't believe they can prevent you from taking your property home. If you chose to ride it and **** happens then it is on you but its your bike and what you do is up to you.When I worked on cars in Ca. I tried to prevent a customer from taking their car with unsafe brakes and the CHP told me that they could take the car if they wanted to.

Could I force them to give me the bike back? Sure. But apparently with the broken part missing the brake fluid would just squirt out every time I pulled the front brake lever.

 

[SecuLaw]

You do not have any recourse with the finance company. The finance terms already have in place for a situation such as this. It doesn't matter if you have full control or not over your property... you owe the debt. Until you legally satisfy the debt with the payoff amount there is nothing you can do EVEN if a Yamaha dealership took unrightful possession of your bike. Going to small claims court will not bring a judgement in your favor. Per the finance agreement, you do not have a violation of the contract thus only a judge that is either drunk or has no law background would rule in your favor. You can't get a mechanics lien on the bike since the finance company has probably already perfected the lien.
Thus is the way it goes with mortgages and loans: all the finance company is concerned with is the property is adequately insured since it protects them, and, the property is used for it's legal purpose.

You can contact the finance company and they may be willing to forgo one month's payment for you. But, interest will still accrue and you'd be better off just continuing to pay. Look at it this way, these next 6 weeks go ahead and do stuff now so that when the full-blown riding season is here those things are out of the way.

Actually, that would be incorrect. The lender would be subject to the same defenses I have against Yamaha for selling me a defective bike. The loan is subject to Maryland consumer law (I live in Maryland), such a provision (can't be waived) is provided for under the Maryland Commercial Code at Section 12-309. Further, under the Maryland Lemon Law (Section 14-1501) any repair of a braking system that takes longer than 30 days is automatically considered a lemon and I can demand a full refund of my purchase price plus other fees and expenses minus a reasonable use deduction.

None of which I care about. I want the bike fixed. I'll discuss what my loss of use it worth with Yamaha.

 

[SockMonkey]

You know, SecuLaw, I'm beginning to think that the real purpose of your post was to ask a rhetorical question. From your responses to many of these posts, it certainly appears that you are better equipped than any of us to give you advice on how to handle this, and, ultimately, your course of action.

Being in the services industry, I can tell you from experience that replacement parts (regardless of industry) are stocked to par levels according to calculated failure rates. And, apparently, this item doesn't fail enough (or at all?) for Yamaha to justify keeping inventory of this item in stock at its parts distribution center (inventory = $$$). It has absolutely zero to do with JIT manufacturing as some have suggested (this part is on every ABS-equipped '06, '07 and '08 FJR in the world) . Which brings me to a bigger question: how sure is the tech that this is indeed the part causing the problem or is it simply a best guess..?? (I was a jet mechanic in a previous life. I understand "best guess".). (As an aside, I've seen mechanics break something just because they couldn't find a problem, and ordering the "failed" part got the problem off their plate albeit temporarily.) Before you start pointing fingers at Yamaha based on what a tech or service advisor (or service manager) at a dealer tells you, you may want to consider what the ramifications will be when that part comes in, is installed and doesn't fix your problem. Who's to blame then?

If it were me - and I thrive on conflict as much as you, I'd stand back, take a deep breath and see what happens. If the part comes in and fixes the bike, you know that you've found a dealer with personnel that (potentially) know their ****, and to proceed as desired with Yamaha. If it comes in and doesn't fix your bike, then you know that it's time to change dealers, and that (by and large) maybe Yamaha does know a thing or two about the parts it puts on its bikes. To do anything before such an outcome is achieved would be premature and waste a bullet.

 

[SecuLaw]

You know, SecuLaw, I'm beginning to think that the real purpose of your post was to ask a rhetorical question. From your responses to many of these posts, it certainly appears that you are better equipped than any of us to give you advice on how to handle this, and, ultimately, your course of action.

The purpose of my post was to request what people believed is a reasonable request by me for the loss of the use of my bike for a minimum of 6 weeks. Many people gave their opinions which I greatly appreciate. As to the area of the law, you are correct I know what it is but that had nothing to do with the reason for the thread.

Being in the services industry, I can tell you from experience that replacement parts (regardless of industry) are stocked to par levels according to calculated failure rates. And, apparently, this item doesn't fail enough (or at all?) for Yamaha to justify keeping inventory of this item in stock at its parts distribution center (inventory = $$$). It has absolutely zero to do with JIT manufacturing as some have suggested (this part is on every ABS-equipped '06, '07 and '08 FJR in the world) . Which brings me to a bigger question: how sure is the tech that this is indeed the part causing the problem or is it simply a best guess..?? (I was a jet mechanic in a previous life. I understand "best guess".). (As an aside, I've seen mechanics break something just because they couldn't find a problem, and ordering the "failed" part got the problem off their plate albeit temporarily.) Before you start pointing fingers at Yamaha based on what a tech or service advisor (or service manager) at a dealer tells you, you may want to consider what the ramifications will be when that part comes in, is installed and doesn't fix your problem. Who's to blame then?

I wasn't clear enough...everyone agrees that the part is bad, the service tech, the mechanic and more importantly, Yamaha. I have no problem if Yamaha stocks its warehouse based upon predicated failure rate. Yamaha is in a much better position then I or anyone here to understand and predicate what parts its going to need in the future. That said, when a part fails that they didn't account for who should suffer the loss....Yamaha or the customer? If under warranty obviously Yamaha is going to replace the part and cover the costs.

If it were me - and I thrive on conflict as much as you, I'd stand back, take a deep breath and see what happens.

That's what I said.

If the part comes in and fixes the bike, you know that you've found a dealer with personnel that (potentially) know their ****, and to proceed as desired with Yamaha. If it comes in and doesn't fix your bike, then you know that it's time to change dealers, and that (by and large) maybe Yamaha does know a thing or two about the parts it puts on its bikes. To do anything before such an outcome is achieved would be premature and waste a bullet.

As previously noted, Yamaha agrees that its the part that is bad so if that doesn't fix the problem than the mechanic and Yamaha are both wrong.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

An anecdote:

In my youth, the local Harley dealer was purpoted to periodically (whenever a significant new model came out) disassemble a new bike for his own parts inventory. This would always get him in serious hot water with the H-D area sales rep. But, he always had the part. H-D didn't make nearly as much money selling parts this way! There may have been other issues, too -- cert. of origin; frame no.; engine no. ....? Anyway, he eventually tired of corporate harrassment and moved on - just before HD 'hit-it-big'.

With Pacific Rim motorbikes, however, and great model proliferation -- the above would hardly be possibe (on a dealer level). Now, we order and wait and hope the part arrives -- just-in-time.

 

[CRMH Eagle]

Well, I stand corrected Seculaw. :blink: I was speaking in general terms and every state is different. I'm not a lawyer but a Controller and have a some experience with lenders, loans, finance departments, etc. Contracts vary in scope and precision so that's why I spoke in generalities. Further I don't claim to be an expert in this area anyway. This is why many companies lease equipment instead of a direct purchase. For when there is a fault on the manufacturer the leasing company steps in and provides the power hitting to remedy the situation. Consumer loans are dependent upon how much the loan entity is willing to help the consumer. Regardless of laws, I've seen consumers screwed.

If you can get your lender to work with you in demanding recourse on the note then that is good news.... if that is the course of action you desire. But you stated you'd rather not take that path.

Maybe this is a dumb question but what is the possibility the part may be at a dealerships in another state? It may take you being the one to call. As the saying goes, if you want it done right (or on schedule) you gotta do it yourself. After I bought my 07, I had to actually email the ECU recall bulletin to the shop along with my vin number to show them it was under recall. Until I put it in their hands, they were unwilling to look it up for me.

Listening to my friends who've bought cars and motorcycles it seems there is no standard of dealer response when a consumer complains. I've had friends threaten to sue and the dealership still doesn't care. Then there are some who want to do the right thing. Maybe the best you can do is an extension on the warranty and a discount on future service/parts. Sometimes life sucks and there's little you can do. I'm having to sue a former employer who didn't pay my wages. Yeah he owes it and it will be up to a judge if I'm due the money. And if ruled in my favor it could take years to collect. Life sucks sometimes.

I don't have any advice to give you. Look at it this way: by March this will all be over. I'm a fan of Calvin & Hobbes cartoon. And there was one episode where Calvin had life turned against him, as he believed it to be. His tiger, Hobbes, said that when life gives you lemons to make lemonade. Calvin replied "My motto: when life gives you lemons then hurl 'em right back!" It's funny... not a solution for you, but it's funny.