The Curse of Odot

[RadioHowie]

Well, Odot....you got your wish. Your jihad is successful.

Can any of you dinks tell me what's wrong with this picture?

Ionbeam should recognize it. So who's gonna be first?

I left a little clue in the topic description.

Got home from work tonight with plans to start putting the FJR back together after the fuel pump fiasco, successfully concluded HERE.

Just to listen to the Silver Streak purr again, and to re-check for any coolant leaks since the new O-rings had been heat-cycled, I fired up the ol' Silver Streak. Jumped right to life, fast idle normal, settled down to a normal idle at 2 bars on the temp gauge.

Running like a champ...then it happened...godawful clatter coming from the right-side timing chain case area. And I mean GAWD-awful. I immediately hit the kill switch and started wondering...what could I have possibly done to create all that noise?

Other than pulling the valve cover during the "discovery process" for why my FJR wouildn't run, I have NOT been in to the internals. I had pulled the valve cover earlier to confirm whether or not the timing on the cams had slipped for some ungodly reason, maybe caused by all the back-firing from the lean-run condition brought on by my bad fuel pump. And to advance the cams for checking, I ONLY turned the crank clockwise, as instructed in the FSM to prevent chain slipping. NEVER turned CCW, so no unnecessary slack was added to the chain.

Pull of the timing case cover and there she is....

"CATASTROPHIC CAM CHAIN TENSIONER FAILURE" (see topic description)

The left chain slipper moves freely 1/2 inch from left to right, putting absolutely NO tension on the cam chain. That fucking chain is as loose as an 80 year-old hooker's twat.

(I'm trying to maintain a positive attitude here, so throwing in a little humor into a completely humorless situation)

The ONLY thing I can guess is the world's WORST coincidence has brought me a Catastrophic Cam Chain Tensioner Failure just 2 days after finishing a two month mechanical ordeal at the other end of the motor.

So here I go again. I don't have the necessary "specific" wobble extension to get the CCT out of motor, but that's reasonably cheap. So is a new CCT. BUT, if I didn't shut her down in time and there's ANY damage to the head and/or valve train from cam slippage, I'm fooked. Seriously fooked. There's no way I can shoulder the kind of expense Alan did to get things back the way they should be.

I'm gonna go read every CCT and cam removal thread on the board to prepare myself for a LONG weekend.

If the Feej IS seriously damaged, look for my precious Silver Streak to wind up HERE. Seriously. :angry2:

A word to the wise...don't ever piss of odot. His jihads carry significant weight.

 

[johnny80s]

Good luck man. That is bummer.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Sorry to hear that Howie, that is not fun. Strange how it went all at once. Hopefully the motor is well and you'll be back on the road in no time.

Good luck.

P.S. You might want to send odot a nice card....

 

[Bustanut joker]

NOOOOOOOOOO!!

Damnit Howie! I hope this isn't as bad as it sounds

Shit!

:bigeyedsmiley:

 

[radman]

If it was running when you shut it off-you should be ok. The cam timing may have been whack, but as the chain is still connected, the cam timing could only change so much. Only way to know is a new tensioner, pull the plugs, and HAND CRANK the motor over. If nothing feels out of sort, install plugs, again HAND CRANK the motor and see if it compresses on all four. Install plugs and start it, or do a compression check. And start going to church or something. For sure don't come and visit me, nor use my name in any form for a while. You got bad juju that won't quit.

 

[Fred W]

Aw crap, man. There's like almost zero chance that your valves escaped damage if the chain went as slack as that picture. Surely they skipped teeth on the crank sprocket. Ionbeam's chain never broke either, just skipped teeth on the sprocket. I'm sure he will be along soon to give exact pointers on how to carry out the condemnation, but I just do not see this coming out well.

I don't know what to tell you. You are obviously in a bad cycle now. I guess the good news is things have to get better soon (only 'cause they can't get much worse).

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

I just got a knot in my stomach.

I got a literal sick feeling reading that. It doesn't do you any good, but I feel for ya.

 

[Geezer]

Sorry to hear that you have a second problem. I have a new CCT that I was going to put in over the winter but haven't made time to do it yet.

What you need to replace that CCT is one of these.

Goos luck. Hopefully no valve damage occurred.

 

[RadioHowie]

Sorry to hear that you have a second problem. I have a new CCT that I was going to put in over the winter but haven't made time to do it yet.
What you need to replace that CCT is one of these.

Goos luck. Hopefully no valve damage occurred.

I don't think there's near enough room to get that between the CCT bolts and the frame, along with an extension.

I thought it required a "wobble" extension, THIS

Like I said, I gots a lots of readin' to do.

Time to fire up my "search" skillz.

 

[exskibum]

Oh man, Howie! THAT sucks. Hoping that somehow you escaped valve, head and piston damage.

You are due some good luck, I'm thinking, but what in hell did you do to generate so much bad motobike Juju? I'm thinking the only good thing in all of this is that you haven't been able to ride. Think about it -- would you really want to have been out among cellphone jabbering cage drivers sporting your karmic imbalance?

 

[ionbeam]

Damn, that sucks beyond words! If I can get to sleep I'm gonna have nightmares over this. I thought the wounds had healed but the psychological scars remain.

Rad has already covered the big items. With the plugs out, the engine should turn over with a wrench -- a.k.a. hand cranking the engine. Go slow and feel for any mechanical resistance and stop at the first trace you notice. You can't do a real compression check without turning the engine over with the starter DO NOT DO THIS at this time!

I dunno what Rad's opinion is but I would recommend that you take the time to pull the valve cover and verify the valve timing. If the valve timing looks is correct you are probably out of the woods.

If at all possible, beg on this Forum, check local rental places, check used tool dealers or what ever, but seek out a leak down gauge set and a compressor that will make 100 psi and do a leak down test. A leak down test will 100% tell you the health of your valve train. I'm not including the procedure in this post, if you are going to do a leak down test I will provide a procedure if you need one. I can loan you the rare and coveted 10mm spark plug adapter if you need one for a leak down checker.

If the valve timing is good, the engine turns by hand with no trace of mechanical resistance and you can't/won't do a leak down test then your next best option is to do a compression check. No matter what, you need to do one of these tests just to be sure. The offer for the 10mm adapter stands for a compression tester too. Auto parts stores may loan you a tester, places like AutoZone here in the NE loan tools and gauges.

Thees ess no goot, stop it right now Howie. Damn, now I'm going to have to go have a drink for you. Maybe two. I'll let you know if you feel better for it in the morning.

 

[Patriot]

awe, it'll be alright...I agree...ya shut it down in time...no big bangs heard...new cam chain tensioner and ya good to go

I believe that

just the last lil bump in the road that you'll fix it right up

Mike

 

[Fred W]

awe, it'll be alright...I agree...ya shut it down in time...no big bangs heard...new cam chain tensioner and ya good to go
I believe that

just the last lil bump in the road that you'll fix it right up

Mike

C'mon Mike. April 1st was yesterday. :blink:

 

[Patriot]

awe, it'll be alright...I agree...ya shut it down in time...no big bangs heard...new cam chain tensioner and ya good to go
I believe that

just the last lil bump in the road that you'll fix it right up

Mike

C'mon Mike. April 1st was yesterday. :blink:

Until it's tangibly declared big time broke...

I believe it's readily fixable

just sayin'

Mike

 

[v65]

Good luck Howie, I'm pulling for ya!

 

[RadioHowie]

Damn, that sucks beyond words! If I can get to sleep I'm gonna have nightmares over this. I thought the wounds had healed but the psychological scars remain.
Rad has already covered the big items. With the plugs out, the engine should turn over with a wrench -- a.k.a. hand cranking the engine. Go slow and feel for any mechanical resistance and stop at the first trace you notice. You can't do a real compression check without turning the engine over with the starter DO NOT DO THIS at this time!

I dunno what Rad's opinion is but I would recommend that you take the time to pull the valve cover and verify the valve timing. If the valve timing looks is correct you are probably out of the woods.

If at all possible, beg on this Forum, check local rental places, check used tool dealers or what ever, but seek out a leak down gauge set and a compressor that will make 100 psi and do a leak down test. A leak down test will 100% tell you the health of your valve train. I'm not including the procedure in this post, if you are going to do a leak down test I will provide a procedure if you need one. I can loan you the rare and coveted 10mm spark plug adapter if you need one for a leak down checker.

If the valve timing is good, the engine turns by hand with no trace of mechanical resistance and you can't/won't do a leak down test then your next best option is to do a compression check. No matter what, you need to do one of these tests just to be sure. The offer for the 10mm adapter stands for a compression tester too. Auto parts stores may loan you a tester, places like AutoZone here in the NE loan tools and gauges.

Thees ess no goot, stop it right now Howie. Damn, now I'm going to have to go have a drink for you. Maybe two. I'll let you know if you feel better for it in the morning.

Alan,

I can't help but feels it's some kind of bad kharma coming my way, especially after all the discussion about the CCT in THIS thread, and of course, what you went through. I was asking all those questions about the CCT in that other thread because I anticipated a replacement in the near future.

After re-reading your original thread, something you said in it struck a nerve with me.....about there being an oil galley in the CCT. Perhaps oil pressure from a motor running 1000-1200rpm "helps" the CCT to exert enough pressure to tighten up the CCT's contact with the slipper? Maybe that's why mine (and many other reported noisemakers) quieted down when we bumped up our idle speeds. Just a wild assed guess.

One thing I DID notice after my fuel pump re-install, on both Tuesday night's and tonight's "warm up" runs, my idle was down around 800-900rpm. Probably had moved from my original setting of 1100rpm from all the changes made in my fueling system, i.e., recalibrated injectors, rail and pump being removed a dozen or so times, etc. I was actually IN THE PROCESS of bumping up the idle speed when all hell broke loose. Scared the shit out of me, all that noise RIGHT where my hand was, getting ready to bump the idle up.

Maybe the lower idle didn't add enough oil pressure compensation, and that's why my (I believe) already marginal CCT gave up the ghost. Again, WAG.

The one thing I think I can honestly recommend to other FJR owners with "noisy" cam chains...don't ignore the problem by bumping the idle up to 1100-1200rpm. That's simply masking a possibly catastrophic problem

Maybe I'm being an alarmist. The experts can slap me down for being so, if I'm off base. But I'LL never ignore a cam chain noise, or mask it with a bumped up idle, ever again.

I'll know more after following Alan's and Rad's advice after ANOTHER disassembly this weekend. :glare:

 

[Bustanut joker]

Well that seals it! I'm calling in sick tomorrow..

Not only has this unsettling news made me Ill, I've got a cover to pull.

Guilty as charged regarding the "up the idle" issue..

:bigeyedsmiley:

 

[RadioHowie]

Well that seals it! I'm calling in sick tomorrow..
Not only has this unsettling news made me Ill, I've got a cover to pull.

Guilty as charged regarding the "up the idle" issue..

:bigeyedsmiley:

Hey, don't take what I wrote as ANY kind of advice. I could be, and probably am, completely full of shit.

But after reading every tensioner/cam chain noise thread on this and other forums, the "fix" of bumping up the idle just doesn't pass muster with me any more.

 

[Fred W]

And I'm listening to Howie, even if I don't think the oil pressure would change very much from 800 rpm to 1200 rpm. If I start hearing valve train noise, unlike my Jeep that makes a friggen racket and runs on, I'll be working on replacing the chain tensioner tout de suite.