The Curse of Odot

[Bustanut joker]

Well you know what they say about an "ounce of prevention" I'll take that risk My friend..

Fingers Crossed for ya mang

:bigeyedsmiley:

 

[Braenen]

Man, I have had some bad luck lately but this would have me sitting in a corner with a quivering lip mumbling about puppy dogs and rainbows and happy places...

I hope that nothing is seriously messed up. Dude, you deserve a break.

 

[dcarver]

STOP it Howie! Damn bad luck. Fingers crossed for you - I sincerely hope you are ok. Well, you'll never be OK, I need more precise language. I hope you precious Silver Streak is ok..

I feel very fortunate to have replaced mine with ~30k on the clock - had a mysterious noise that came and went, only consistentcy was it was getting louder each time. Ionbeam's disaster convinced me, I replaced the part for ~80 bucks IIRC had the local tech install. No more noise of that ilk again, ever.

 

[RadioHowie]

Like the old song, "If It Wasn't For Bad Luck, I'd Have No Luck At All"

Got that CCT top bolt out, but forget removing the bottom one with a pipe wrench. Ain't happenin'.

Thank goodness I finally found THIS thread, describing the right tools and techniques for the job.

I can NOT figure out how anyone can see the timing marks on the cam sprockets with the motor in the frame. That's gonna be an issue retiming this sucker. God bless you guys who do your own valve adjustments and pull those cams out.

In one of the myriad of cam chain threads, someone mentioned grinding alignment marks on the back of the cam sprocket to match the front sides that face the frame. That's a smart idea.

Right now, I think my course of action is this:

1 - Remove CCT, chain and chain slippers. Slippers removed for inspection, CCT and chain removed for replacement.

2 - Install new CCT, chain and slippers (if needed)

3 - CAREFULLY (as per Ionbeam and Radman) determine if there is any valve damage with a leakdown and compression test.

4 - Pray to the FJR gods there is NO #3 issue

5 - Put it back together AGAIN and see what breaks next.

Might be riding by June, if MY brand of luck goes away.

 

[v65]

I can NOT figure out how anyone can see the timing marks on the cam sprockets with the motor in the frame.

For me that was a real SOB. Had to use a mirror on the front cam to double check, you can just barely see it with the naked eye. After I got them where I thought they should be I took a looooong break and came back and doubled checked them thoroughly. The front was off a tooth, glad I took the time to do it right!

FWIW, I used a small wrench to remove the CCT. Patience was a virtue in that process.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Dayum Howie...Sorry to hear all this. I was so happy for you when you finally got the fuel pump thing figured out. I think it's good that you were in your garage running low RPMs when this happened. If you had been out somewhere spooling it up, you may have not heard the chain until damage was done. As fast as it sounds like you shut it off, I'm betting you will be ok. Good luck.

Oh...I don't remember who said it, but someone said your luck has to get better because it can't get any worse...Never say that. Last time I said that, I ended up in the hospital with a ruptured apendix.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Radio,

Man, I can't believe this, of all things. Oddly enough, I just had mine replaced last month for making noises that I did not like after my major repairs. This was even after it was replace in March of '07. Some people have all the luck. Now mine is smooth & quiet.

All the best with your repairs... I think you will be fine.

When it is finished, just DON'T BUY GAS in Florida, get it in Alabama or Georgia. We're rooting for you.

 

[wfooshee]

DON'T BUY GAS in Florida, get it in Alabama or Georgia.

Geez, where he is that's like telling him to park on a hill so he can bump start it if he needs to. :huh:

 

[ionbeam]

Howie, let me loan you my own personal nemesis, the worlds worst jinks, so unlucky that his last name doesn't even have any vowels. Meet Joe Btfsplk, when he is done visiting with you, send him on to the next deserving soul.

 

[radman]

Lil Abner. How appropos.........

 

[odot]

Welp, there's an old dude here in the dfw area whose wife doesn't like to **** so he's selling his new skoot. You may want to check into that. I know he's asking top price but, with yer troubles howie.....ya may just want to move onto another platforum.

 

[RadioHowie]

ya may just want to move onto another platforum.

Freudian slip? You suggesting I leave and quit boring everyone with my problems?

 

[radman]

ya may just want to move onto another platforum.

Freudian slip? You suggesting I leave and quit boring everyone with my problems?

Hell no. This is techno gold-by the time you're done, n00bs will be slamming motors together in hours.

 

[RadioHowie]

[SIZE=24pt]WTF???[/SIZE]

I thought I understood how the CCT worked on this damn cycle.

You turn the screw in the housing all the way CLOCKWISE to retract the plunger. Turn it until you feel a little "click" to lock the plunger in. Is that right?

To release the plunger, you insert your screwdriver in the housing and turn the screw CCW and the plunger "jumps out" under spring pressure. Is that right?

Well mine doesn't do that. CW DOES retract the plunger, all the way to the "click", but a slight turn of the screw CCW and nothing...no spring release. If I continue to turn the screw CCW, the plunger simply moves out like I'm turning a left-handed thread. Will turn 4 1/2 turns from fully retracted to fully extended, but no where along the length of the extension is there any spring action on the plunger.

It simply acts like a manual CCT. Turn clockwise to pull in the plunger to loosen the chain, turn CCW to extend the plunger to tighten the chain.

As I began, WTF?

Here's a direct quote from the FSM:

While lightly pressing the timing chain tensioner

rod by hand, turn the tensioner rod

fully clockwise with a thin screwdriver 1.

Remove the screwdriver and slowly release

the timing chain tensioner rod.

Make sure that the timing chain tensioner

rod comes out of the timing chain tensioner

housing smoothly. If there is rough movement,

replace the timing chain tensioner.

Hell, there ain't no smooth movement...or rough movement. There ain't NO movement when the rod is released. In fact, CCW just off the click, where I expected the spring tension to extend the plunger, you can't even PULL the plunger out.

Like I said, there is NO spring action. It acts exactly like a manual CCT. Nothing "automatic" about the one I just pulled out of my Feej.

Have I completely misunderstood the workings of this thing? Or is this just an indication that it's seriously fooked and is what caused my carnage?

Cams come out tomorrow so I can pull the chain and slippers.

Picture #1 -- "adjusting screw" turned fully CW to click position --

Picture #2 -- "adjusting srew" turned slightly CCW to release position -- (note: plunger in same position)

By the way, extraction of that ******* was a snap with a 10" long 1/4" drive wobble extension. I used a "magnet on a stick" to manuver the socket over the bolt, stuck the extension through the frame hole, lined it up, tapped it on with the ratchet handle and out she came.

 

[ionbeam]

Glad to hear that you managed to extract the CCT, I didn't hear any swearing up here in NH. I think you have the same kind of CCT that I had when my motor go boom. It needs Viagra or Cialis, no? Well, you have a zero reference to compare your new CCT with.

On some bored, dark and lonely night you can extent the tensioner rod, pop off the end cap and take one turn of the rod then replace the end cap and marvel at the renewed vigor at which the little prick rod plunger will pop out. I've discussed this someplace here in the Forum. Please don't be tempted to use this POS again, even if it seems to be renewed.

Good luck with the rest of the process!

 

[FJRBluesman]

Maybe that's why it's broke? The internals must be broken some where on that spring it broke or something. Time to dissect deeper.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Jebus Howie! Talk aboot bad luck...

If I wuz you I'd stay away from Bars or you'll probably drag sumpin like this home :dribble:

How ya gonna splain that??

:jester:

 

[Braenen]

You dont. You simply gnaw off your arm, tie it off with your belt and sneak out.

 

[RadioHowie]

Figured out what the problem was....(in Italian dialect) "She'sah brokeahno feex!"

What the hell do I have to lose...tear the mother apart and see how she works.

When you turn the "adjustment screw" accessed through the exterior bolt hole, you screw the plunger IN to the plunger body. This action winds up the "clockwork" spring so that when released, the spring unwinds and "unscrews" the plunger OUT to contact the chain slipper.

As Ionbeam has noted in other threads, the amount of tension on the spring controls how actively and forcefully the plunger extends to contact the chain slipper. The plunger basically won't retract on its own, since the only way it CAN retract is to be screwed in to the plunger body against spring tension. I don't see how this can happen under any condition. There is no need for a pawl or ratchet system to keep the plunger extended...it simply can't retract unless you turn the screw from the exterior of the CCT body.

HOWEVER!!!

Get ready for some fun:

Arrow 'A' points to the little tang at the top of the spring insde the housing that locks into slot 'B' on the exterior of the housing.

Arrow '1' points to the "crossmember" at the base of the spring that fits into slot '2' on the plunger shaft.

So when the CCT is assembled, when you screw the plunger IN to the plunger body, you wind up the spring. Release the screw and the spring unwinds, screwing the plunger back out.

There's just ONE LITTLE BITTY PROBLEM with my CCT.....note the two springs in the picture? 'A' and '1'?

They should be 1 spring! Cleanly broken as Bluesey opined. So NO extension. As the chain wore, there was NO plunger movement at all, so the slipper simply had NO effect on chain tension. Chain became SO loose, it started whipping around on the "return" run from the crank sprocket to the intake cam sproket. Hence all the racket.

Also, there is also NO effect by oil pressure on the mechanism. It's spring tension only to extend the plunger.

My plunger moves smooth as silk. There's just no spring to MAKE it move. And contrary to what Ionbeam wrote in his disaster thread, the tabs that locate the plunger body in the CCT housing, noted here with arrows: (you can't see one of the tabs on the plunger body from the picture angle)

CAN be rotated 180 degrees, rather than only 360 degrees that Ionbeam had noted in his thread, so should one have a CCT with weak return tension, the circlip can be easily removed, the plunger "cap" with the tabs rotated 180 degrees to add tension, then the circlip replaced.

Now is this something one SHOULD do? I'll leave that for gods and demons to debate. But a weak plunger spring CAN be tensioned more with a simple 180 degree turn of the plunger cap in the housing. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns where the spring would bind, but YMMV.

The simple reason so many have reported quieting down their noisy motors with a quick trip to the dealer, the tech simply screws the plunger out a little tighter against the chain slipper. If this has happened to your FJR, that means your spring doesn't have enough tension on it to screw the plunger out by itself. Given a few more 10k miles, it gets noisy again, adjust it again. It really works in concept just like a manual CCT, except there's a little clockwork spring doing the adjusting for you.

Personally I find it nearly incomprehensible that the life of the engine is left in the hands of ONE tiny little spring.

In reality, all I need to fix my CCT is a replacement spring. The rest of the mechanism operates smoothly, has no damage, scuffs or wear marks. There's just no way for the plunger to extend with the spring in two pieces.

The $64,000 question remains....did I shut it down in time and avoid a skipped tooth/piston/valve collision. Tomorrow will tell when I yank the cams.

Edit: I see above Alan mantions you CAN adjust spring tension by rotating the cap, as I discovered. He just recommends you DON'T. Again, this might be a matter for debate, but I'm in no position to know, since my spring is busted. But would I if my spring was only weak and not broken? I might try it, but then I'd worry about it every time I cranked up my bike.

 

[Zorlac]

Good luck Howie, I hope good karma's with you!

After reading your details on the vulnerability of the CCT itself, I'd hafta ask if there's an APE manual version for the FJ that'd fit the FJR?