The FJR's Stock Suspension SUCKS!

[extrememarine]

Amen. Reading about it plants the seeds of thought, but you can not fully implement a theory by simply reading a book. In the advanced riding course I took, the flow was classroom, demonstration by instructor, execution of the exercise by the student following the instructor, then the instructor following, critiquing student, repeat. That type of learning is priceless.

Because taking advanced riding classes has really increased my understanding of 'riding theory' and has provided *huge* improvements in my actual riding. Much more so than just reading a book.

Enjoy the new suspenders, G-man- adjust it to your liking because you're the only rider that bike has to please. This is the journey I am about to embark on with Vader 2 point 0. It has all the same parts as 1.0, but we've got some work to do in order to get it back to where I want it. And that is all that really matters, how the bike fits how I ride. Those who have ridden with me can judge my riding style & bike setup - call it fast, slow, smooth, I don't really care - it gets me from point a to point b efficiently enough.

Where are you at on dampening settings? Have you done sag measurements and set up on it? Never mind, I'll email you, cause we probably don't know jack about this either.

Wayne

 

[Bounce]

https://www.xtranormal.com/watch/13457353/lean-angle

 

[Bungie]

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but their are two definitions of trail braking. The one is as described, the other is the application of brakes and throttle at the same time to keep the front/back end extended increasing your ground clearance. Which one is 'real' trail braking? Dunno, but that difference in cornering ability by practicing the latter borders on amazing.

SkootyG knows this if he's going to become an ARC instructor. His self restraint on this is amazing and I know he's just sitting there smiling knowingly. It's what the ARC class is all about.

By the way, the pic in my avatar was taken while I was doing the second definition while squaring off the switchback as deeply as possible.

 

[Ignacio]

I thought this thread was about the stock FJR suspension sucking...seems to be drifting.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Threads like this always seem to end up about Tommy racers ability..Tire threads seem to have the same effect.

 

[glory racing]

Threads like this always seem to end up about Tommy racers ability..Tire threads seem to have the same effect.

Say it aint so!!!

NEPRT?

 

[mavrik]

always fun reading these type of threads...lots of good info if you can weed it out

 

[wmadoty]

always fun reading these type of threads...lots of good info if you can weed it out

I agree. I have learned that the proper massaging of an erection enhances cornering clearance while riding two up. Who knew? Must be the blood flow, I guess it has something to do with fluid dynamics. I am sure the engineers among us will give us a better understanding.

 

[MCRIDER007]

always fun reading these type of threads...lots of good info if you can weed it out

To add to the drama, www.Motorcycledaily.com just published their review of the 2013 FJR. It was mostly positive, they liked the new shock (which was not as soft as prior years) but said the forks gave a vague feel in the twisties.

 

[Graham Downunder]

Yes the stock suspension can be improved just like most bikes . I even see Ducati Multistrada with Ohlins electronic suspension being upgraded with different springs etc.

The trouble with ground clearance is not a big problem unless you are really pushing it and probably taking much higher risks than most people would be comfortable with .

Of course correctly improved suspension on any bike makes it a safer bike thus allowing you to corner better and feel safer .But your vision around corners is not improved and the higher speed reduces you reaction time .

I say this because I have seen too many people become over confidant and treat the road as a racetrack . I had one BMW RR 1000 overtake myself and others on a corner that we were taking at the speed limit 60mph ,he ran so wide as to nearly go off the bitumen and into 6 foot ditch lucky there was no car coming the other way .He had effectively reduced his line of sight to almost nothing as well .He of course was pulled up about 5 miles down the road having a break .

 

[wheatonFJR]

...I say this because I have seen too many people become over confidant and treat the road as a racetrack . I had one BMW RR 1000 overtake myself and others on a corner that we were taking at the speed limit 60mph ,he ran so wide as to nearly go off the bitumen and into 6 foot ditch lucky there was no car coming the other way .He had effectively reduced his line of sight to almost nothing as well .He of course was pulled up about 5 miles down the road having a break .

...a changing of the shorts "break" I presume.

 

[Fred W]

As it turns out... I've never even ridden an FJR with a stock suspension, so I have no idea how badly it can suck.

When I bought my bike (used) I knew that the previous owner was a little guy. He sold it so he could get a smaller bike (BMW R1200S) and he told me what mods he had done. One of the things that he ticked off was that he had got in on the Sonic Springs forum group buy (back in '05) but I figured that the bike was surely still under-sprung since he was just a little feller.

Rode with that spring and the stock rear shock for a long time and didn't think anything about it. Lats year at 60k miles I sprung for a used Penske rear shock and slapped that puppy on there. It was better, but not like night and day.

This winter I've sent my Penske to GP suspensions in the group buy to have it reworked, and while it's there I was thinking about what to do to the front end to spruce things up. Was considering a pair of new front springs and their valving kits, which I would install myself when the shock gets back. I went ahead and measured my current sag levels (I'd done it before but forgotten what they were) and I have 21mm sag with just the bike and 30mm with me on it. I went searching for what the optimum sags are and realized that the stock sags are much, much bigger than that. In fact the "optimum" sag is supposed to be 28-33% of the full stroke (which is 135mm) so it should be 37-44mm. In other words I am on the stiff side of street optimum already.

All along I was thinking that I was just riding a basically stock bike, but that isn't the case. Live and learn...

 

[Bustanut joker]

always fun reading these type of threads...lots of good info if you can weed it out

I agree. I have learned that the proper massaging of an erection enhances cornering clearance while riding two up. Who knew? Must be the blood flow, I guess it has something to do with fluid dynamics. I am sure the engineers among us will give us a better understanding.

^^^^^ This guy has it going on.. I see a controversial run here though.

 

[TomInPA]

I'm rarely aware of the pegs dragging in curves. To me the sensation is more of the road rising under the sole of my boot and lifting it off the pegs. At that point I'm usually on the throttle and never hear the pegs scraping. What am I doing wrong?

 

[MCRIDER007]

I'm rarely aware of the pegs dragging in curves. To me the sensation is more of the road rising under the sole of my boot and lifting it off the pegs. At that point I'm usually on the throttle and never hear the pegs scraping. What am I doing wrong?

Why do you think you are doing something wrong? You are probably riding with your toes pointing down so they make contact before the pegs, some riders do that on purpose using the end of their boot as a feeler gauge.

 

[LAF]

Or you could quit braking in the middle of corners.
Set your entry speed coming in and roll on the throttle through the corner to increase the available lean angle and stability through the turn.

Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II

Try it. It actually works, even with a soft suspension.

+1 on this Fred. Everyone knows it all so not much chance of changing that.

I have ridden many bikes and not all have "super" suspension. I choose to adapt to what I am on and use the skills I acquired over the years. Every ride is not a race but it is a chance at no life if you do not pay attention to the bike and your skill set while on it.

Suspension upgrades are great and on my BMW K 1200 LT it cost 2200.00 for the Purple Set up. That was two shocks and a steering damper! Hyper Pro rocks as most after market products raise the bar.

FJR with a Penskey on the rear and springs with oil change in the front forks made the bike a whole lot more fun to ride.

Still, skill set and technique is the most important part of any ride.

 

[Fred W]

Back on topic: The stock suspension. Why does it suck?

As mentioned, I've been doing a little digging on the fork spring specs lately. I've come across one major difference in the front forks that I have never seen specifically pointed out before, and that is with the front fork springs.

The stock second gen fork spring is a non-progressive single weight spring of .85kg/mm. The first gens came with a two stage spring where the first 91mm are at .8 kg/mm and after that is compressed the second stage of the spring is wound at 1.0kg/mm for the remainder of the stroke. FWIW - 1kg/mm is pretty close to what most people end up with when they replace with aftermarket springs.

The spring free lengths are almost the same (261 - 262mm), and the spacers are the exact same length (149.5mm) but the installed spring lengths are a tad different (due to the fork internal dimensions) at 246mm 1st gen vs 251mm 2nd gen.

In the case of the 1st gen fork, the spring is pre-compressed by 15mm when installed (difference between spring free length and installed length), so the spring pre-load will be 15mm x .8kg/mm x 2 forks = 24 kg. Second gen preload will be 11mm x .85 x 2 = 18.7 kg.

That initial 15mm on the first gen will be used-up out of the lower spring rate's 91mm section, leaving 76 more mm of the softer .8kg/mm coil still available when there is no weight yet placed on the fork. Drop a 600 lb bike and 200 lb rider on it and the majority (if not all of) of the remaining 76 mm will get compressed. The total travel of the fork is only 135mm, so you'd be riding pretty close to mid fork stroke with just the sag.

Not much better on the 2nd gen with just an .85kg/mm spring and such little pre-load. At least maybe in the case of the 1st gen there would be less likelihood of bottoming out once you get into the 1kg/mm section of spring?

I guess now we can also see why we need to change those springs.

 

[deanw]

So yesterday I took the MSF Advanced Riding Techniques class. Not a bad class. Thought it could have been better but I learned a few things but best of all it was FUN!!! The only things is, I was scraping pegs like a freaking ice skater out there. Wore my peg feelers down a good third. And this is in a big parking lot at speeds less than 30mph.

What are these 'peg feelers' you speak of?

Worst of all, on the right side I even scraped the sidestand and centerstand! Yikes! That is too close for my comfort! During some the exercises, especially one with a big swerve one way and then the other at relatively slow speeds I could feel the suspension 'pogo'ing way too much.

I'd say that's pretty good work. I've only been able to do that turning left...

On the Gen I, Wilbers suspension and oval StainTunes, the order of touchdown is pegs (feelers long gone), then foot shields. Somewhere in there was muffler clamp bolts and brake pedal. Only bonked the sidestand once.

Note the above suspension, properly adjusted, raised the bike about an inch.

I haven't had a chance to push the Gen III bike yet. I'll try to remember to check back in May.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

Is the suspension the same on ALL Fantastic Japanese Rockets??

My 2008 doesn't seem bad at all in the twisties, I get no wallowing or bottoming out when I ride hard like I did with my 2006 Trumpet Sprint 1050 and I weigh 270lbs.

 

[Klunkshift]

Hello Fred,

How reliable are your numbers on the preload of the springs for the Gen II?

Quoting Fred:

"The spring free lengths are almost the same (261 - 262mm), and the spacers are the exact same length (149.5mm) but the installed spring lengths are a tad different (due to the fork internal dimensions) at 246mm 1st gen vs 251mm 2nd gen.

In the case of the 1st gen fork, the spring is pre-compressed by 15mm when installed (difference between spring free length and installed length), so the spring pre-load will be 15mm x .8kg/mm x 2 forks = 24 kg. Second gen preload will be 11mm x .85 x 2 = 18.7 kg."

I am in the process of installing RaceTech springs - longer than stock - and want to use your numbers to calculate how much of the spacer I need to cut and achieve the correct preload. I am using .95kg/mm springs and shooting for a preload - adjusters completely backed off - of 13 to 14 mm

Thanks