The results from my experiment are in

[waldmana]

Not sure I'd ever find a reason to shift 55 times in 10 seconds, I'll keep my "A".

Tom

I agree, but you might want to find a real good reason to try to make a quick down shift going into a slow speed 15 mph turn without having to disengage your left foot from being anchored against the crankcase in order to get to the shifter, not to mention having to move your left hand up and off the grip to some degree (the hand responsible for steering on a left hand turn which is the direction of the turn Camera's was in) in order to grab the clutch.

Just a thought...

I do not shift while in a corner, I get into the correct gear before I get into the corner.

 

[warsw]

Yea, that's what I did..........the point is the lenght of time for each shift to occure...Yea, you gotta wait to the RPMs to climb, but when it's time to change gears, I've already shifted and watching the RPM climb while most are disengaging the clutch level.....Sorta like the different between you having to turn on the light in a room by lighting a candle and me having to turn on the light by flipping a light switch...Yea, we both have to walk over there to do it, but I'm already back in my chair reading a book while your fooling with the matches..and we all know you don't want to be playing with matches while going into a 100 mph turn....

When you are actually in a race situation you very seldom use your clutch while shifting up a gear so there is no time lost. In some situations you slip your clutch to keep the R,s up instead of down shifting and are able to exit a corner a gear up. Much faster. Not sure you can do that with an AE.

If you never use your “Sport Tour” for touring why would you buy a “Sport Tour” instead of a “Sport bike”. A Sport bike is much faster for less money.

 

[Ari Rankum]

This morning, I set up an experiment in a totally control environment to duplicate the shifting of both the A and the AE.......What was involved was sitting on a parked bike an mimicking shifting of both models for a 10 second period....The results I found to be astonishing...
I was able to perform 23 shifts manually alternating between up shifting and down shifting on the A model vs 55 shifts i was able to do digitally (hitting the up shift button, then the downshift button on the AE........

The results indicate a proficient rider can shift the AE over twice as fast than the A.

This makes the argument that a manual clutch gives a rider more control a totally invalid & mute one.....as being able to shift in milliseconds which is as fast as your brain can send a signal to your finger to push to button obviously gives you much more control that your feet and hands could ever give you as they are not only lagging behind your brain’s commands to the extent your losing control of the bike having to move your left foot and left hand all around in an unconscious effort to satisfy your brain’s commands...That's probably why Camera crashed in a 15MPH turn on his A.

Then it becomes obviously clear and the fact become unarguable that Digital shifting is not only a much faster way and efficient way to shift, the tune of 125%, but ultimately much, much, safer too....

Don't believe me, try it for yourself.. Although in an uncontrolled environment there might be slight deviations as to the results. ie; drinking several Beers would result in lower performance times for the A, but could increase times for the AE….I will probably experiment with THE BEER factor this weekend and have the results next week.

This is too damn funny. Thanks.

Here's a clue - there are many, many situtations where being able to adjust the engine RPMs up or down from what they would be with the clutch engaged is useful prior to, with finesse, engaging the clutch. Sometimes I drag the clutch to gently, and precisely slow the bike down. Some times I fan it, like in parking lot situations. In short, I like an infinitely variable, user contollable clutch lever for the greater control it provides.

I also, by the way, really enjoy seeing these "experiments" you do. Please, post more. This one was extremely amusing. And, just as in this case, it's okay to create strawman experiments. Like, say the argument is about control, and you want to do an experiment about speed. That's the really fun stuff. Thanks. It only gets better if you ignore, completely, situations where your experiment would be meaningful. Take 5.5 shifts per second, for instance. Really great stuff.

 

[yamahog]

]
When you are actually in a race situation you very seldom use your clutch while shifting up a gear so there is no time lost. In some situations you slip your clutch to keep the R,s up instead of down shifting and are able to exit a corner a gear up. Much faster. Not sure you can do that with an AE.

If you never use your “Sport Tour” for touring why would you buy a “Sport Tour” instead of a “Sport bike”. A Sport bike is much faster for less money.

Thats what I was gonna say.

 

[Warchild]

It only gets better if you ignore, completely, situations where your experiment would be meaningful. Take 5.5 shifts per second, for instance. Really great stuff.

Ari, please..... you're killin' me here....! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[SeguinFJR]

On the more serious side, that's all I do is Sport riding. I do NO, I repeat NO TOURING as I have a real nice car if I want to go somewhere.

I hear 'ya. This bike is so smooth and sporty that I want to go up against squids on GSXR's. That engine compression when you downshift is so smooth.

I head up to Dallas once in a while. We ought to get together for a ride.

 

[hoham]

I enjoy shifting. The AE model I feel is not needed. Maybe on a beginners bike, which the FJR is not. I like the control I have on my 06 A model. What they should have added is helmet holders and looked at the vibration issue that they now have. My .02c

 

[tstaff]

On the more serious side, that's all I do is Sport riding. I do NO, I repeat NO TOURING as I have a real nice car if I want to go somewhere.

I hear 'ya. This bike is so smooth and sporty that I want to go up against squids on GSXR's. That engine compression when you downshift is so smooth.

I head up to Dallas once in a while. We ought to get together for a ride.

Sounds like you two were made for each other.

 

[SilveradoSlick]

Starcruiser, I'm glad you enjoy the AE. I have to say that your experiment could not be considered valid in the real world. Alternating up/down shifting is not a real-world occurrence and is definitely biased towards the AE as the A rider has to move his toe alternately above and below the shifter.

Real world: a clutchless upshift on the A is as fast as upshifting the AE. Leisurely upshifts using the clutch take longer on the A, but who's in a hurry? Downshifts are faster on the AE, although I'm not sure there's a glaring need for fast downshifts.

I can see why F1 cars have this sort of shifting because shifting a cage is a much slower operation. I'd prefer it in a cage, but I just don't see a huge need for it on a bike. Personally, I'm waiting 'till the AE shifts more smoothly before I pony up the big bucks for it. But again, I'm glad you and all the other AE afficionados enjoy yours. They certainly have a high cool factor.

 

[zorkler]

Thats the thing that keeps me comeing back to this board . the super serious guy, the off the wall guy , the guy that knows everything , the guy that knows nothing , the guy who needs every dam thing that can go with a cycle . and the down to earth guys . Put me where you want but there are lots of times i laugh my ass off and this is one of the times .

 

[starcruiser(aka downn2)]

On the more serious side, that's all I do is Sport riding. I do NO, I repeat NO TOURING as I have a real nice car if I want to go somewhere.

I hear 'ya. This bike is so smooth and sporty that I want to go up against squids on GSXR's. That engine compression when you downshift is so smooth.

I head up to Dallas once in a while. We ought to get together for a ride.

Come on....I only ride on Sunday and I'm talking earyly in the morning. I head out around 6 am up I 30 north and hit the 2 lane country backroads up to and around Farmersville and I'm usually back by 9:00 or so.....Pretty kewl, nowheresville definately has its advantages, that's what I call it anyway; there's no cops, no traffic, no people, just the sunrise, you, your bike, a blacktop 2 lane twisty road and all that clean fresh country morning air with a little of that fresh cut hay aroma mixed in it. They can't put that in any air freshener bottle........ it's like you're riding in heaven........

PM me....there's a truckstop up there we can meet at....

 

[radman]

 

[Ari Rankum]

Oh, I think if you stripped all the fat away, I'd have a six-pack after this ab workout.

Priceless.

 

[fjrrider]

Dont take it personal StarCrusher, I'm sure your just trying to justify buying the "AE" . In fact if I could talk my wife into riding on her on, I would get her an "AE". But its not to be.

Next experiment try this - Pin the throttle wide open and see how mant times you can shift in 10 seconds!

 

[Bounce]

Not sure I'd ever find a reason to shift 55 times in 10 seconds, I'll keep my "A".

Tom

I agree, but you might want to find a real good reason to try to make a quick down shift going into a slow speed 15 mph turn without having to disengage your left foot from being anchored against the crankcase in order to get to the shifter, not to mention having to move your left hand up and off the grip to some degree (the hand responsible for steering on a left hand turn which is the direction of the turn Camera's was in) in order to grab the clutch.

Just a thought...

interesting technique. i don't remember lifting my foot off the peg to shift, or my hand off the grip to use the clutch. do you also use body english exclusively to redirect the bike?

 

[RadioHowie]

Yea, that's what I did..........the point is the lenght of time for each shift to occure...Yea, you gotta wait to the RPMs to climb, but when it's time to change gears, I've already shifted and watching the RPM climb while most are disengaging the clutch level.....Sorta like the different between you having to turn on the light in a room by lighting a candle and me having to turn on the light by flipping a light switch...Yea, we both have to walk over there to do it, but I'm already back in my chair reading a book while your fooling with the matches..and we all know you don't want to be playing with matches while going into a 100 mph turn....

I emboldened and underlined the basic fallacy in your argument. If I'm in a "shifting" contest with you, it's on the road, not on the centerstand. And I'm not using the clutch anyway if it's a contest. No matter how fast the AE is shifting, there's still a finite amount of time the clutch is disengaging and reengaging. I'm not using the clutch so you've already lost in the "how fast is the shift" contest.

The whole point you're missing is that while you (allegedly) can shift faster with your '06 AE, my '04 is already half a mile ahead of your heavier, taller geared barge. I'm at 9000rpm sooner than you, so I'm home finishing dinner, humpin' the wife and kickin' the cat while you're still waiting for your Buick to spool up.

I was probably the first in line to expound the virtues of the AE last year when Yamaha announced it, but your observations and unrealistic experiments redefine "silly".

:****:

 

[fjrrider]

PM me....there's a truckstop up there we can meet at....

uh oh!!!! I dont know what this means and I'm scared to ask!

 

[tripletango]

The AE changes gear about as fast as a clutched version. The decision made by the ECU is pretty quick but so is your clutch hand and foot shifter on the manual version.

The AE slips the clutch nicely on down shifts but if you want to blip the throttle it is smoother. All that takes time and the shift is not finished until the clutch is fully engaged.

On up shifts sure you can wot the change but the clutch takes a second to reengage and the revs rise as on a sloppy clutch upshift. Again the AE changes smoothly if you back off just as you would on a clutchless shift.

The big disadvantage of the AE is that it backs off the ignition on upshifts to give the clutch a chance to engage without slipping. It still slips wot.

To me the manual model properly handled should be as fast. Not as convenient but as fast.

 

[Warchild]

Next experiment try this - Pin the throttle wide open and see how mant times you can shift in 10 seconds!

[SIZE=18pt]BWAH-HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!!!!![/SIZE]

I'm about to pass out from laughter.... youse guys are awesome....! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[RadioHowie]

Next experiment try this - Pin the throttle wide open and see how mant times you can shift in 10 seconds!

Aren't you describing a drag race?

If so, the answer should be 4 times...then you'll be near or at the end of the quarter mile.

1>2 = 1st shift

2>3 = 2nd shift

3>4 = 3rd shift

4>5 = 4th shift

10 seconds is up. 4 shifts.

Next question.