skyway
Well-known member
I'm baffled myself. Maybe there is a leak somewhere that I missed, that would put my mind at ease.
The 'tick' Is Gone! But So Is My 'oil'!
- Thread starter skyway
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skyway
Well-known member
Hi Dave,
Kristi and I really enjoyed your company as well. I am just leaving to ride for the day, but tommorow I will post up a ride report from Peak to Peak and give our group the opportunity to grab some picci's. I may just take up your offer of a good mechanic in matters of FJR since I have lost faith in my local shop. First I will take Rad's good advice and put fresh oil and ride some more.
You are already changing the oil (today I'm guessing). To me its the same as a new engine, you have a somewhat rebuilt one. You need a few oil changes and some miles on your latest change to really tell. It might not be as bad as you think or anything at all. I suppose it sucks having a ticker in the first place. Hopefully all is well.
SilveradoSlick
Well-known member
Since I'm not as anal as you, Skyway, I didn't check the oil for 2,000 mi. Oil light came on when I hit the brakes and then went out again. Nothing in the sight glass. I added maybe a quarter of a cup to get it back in the glass and probably less than half a quart total. This was with 5,000 mi. on it and running the same oil (Rotella T). Hadn't noticed any oil usage before.
04FJR4ME
Well-known member
Just to add my view point,
Go drain the bike without adding any oil to it to see what is left in the crank case.
I would then notified your dealer of this usage and let them know there was not an oil usage issue prior to the head repair.
Here is what happens with replacing valves on an older engine.
When I used to own a shop, I always ask the customer to sign an acknowledgement that if we are to perform a valve job on an older engine that the rings may give out after the new valve job is done, this is due to increase pressure from the new valve job and put additional pressure on the next weak link.
You can buy an oil dye and add to the oil, see if the is leaking or being suck through the intake vales/seals. Maybe they forgot to put the valve seals in thinking that without the seals it may help lubricate the valve stems more.
The oil control rings on your piston may have given out or weaken when you had the ticking issue and now it is more pronounce.
If the engine runs fine, chances are your compression will be ok, you can ask your dealer to do a leak down test and compression test to see if the rings and valves are hold pressure.
Did you ran low on oil when you had the ticking issue?
If it is the valves, it will smoke when you decelerate where the vacuum is at the highest point, if it smokes under acceleration, then chances are is your rings and it is blowing by the rings and you will see lots of smoke in your crankcase if you take the oil cap off while engine is running and give it some gas.
Anyway, if you have the YES plan, I would just take it back and have it fix right, you can't afford to have your engine seizes while ridding because it ran out of oil.
I remember the days where dealers was telling customers it was acceptable to use one quart of oil every 800-1000 miles, for a car, that will be 5 quarts in 4,000 to 5,000 miles, why bother change the oil when you are always adding to it, just change the filter and add a quart of oil, and you are good to go. And this is the standard they stuck by, so go figure.
Try to verify where the oil is going first then take appropriate action after you have determined the cause of the oil lost or usage.
Go drain the bike without adding any oil to it to see what is left in the crank case.
I would then notified your dealer of this usage and let them know there was not an oil usage issue prior to the head repair.
Here is what happens with replacing valves on an older engine.
When I used to own a shop, I always ask the customer to sign an acknowledgement that if we are to perform a valve job on an older engine that the rings may give out after the new valve job is done, this is due to increase pressure from the new valve job and put additional pressure on the next weak link.
You can buy an oil dye and add to the oil, see if the is leaking or being suck through the intake vales/seals. Maybe they forgot to put the valve seals in thinking that without the seals it may help lubricate the valve stems more.
The oil control rings on your piston may have given out or weaken when you had the ticking issue and now it is more pronounce.
If the engine runs fine, chances are your compression will be ok, you can ask your dealer to do a leak down test and compression test to see if the rings and valves are hold pressure.
Did you ran low on oil when you had the ticking issue?
If it is the valves, it will smoke when you decelerate where the vacuum is at the highest point, if it smokes under acceleration, then chances are is your rings and it is blowing by the rings and you will see lots of smoke in your crankcase if you take the oil cap off while engine is running and give it some gas.
Anyway, if you have the YES plan, I would just take it back and have it fix right, you can't afford to have your engine seizes while ridding because it ran out of oil.
I remember the days where dealers was telling customers it was acceptable to use one quart of oil every 800-1000 miles, for a car, that will be 5 quarts in 4,000 to 5,000 miles, why bother change the oil when you are always adding to it, just change the filter and add a quart of oil, and you are good to go. And this is the standard they stuck by, so go figure.
Try to verify where the oil is going first then take appropriate action after you have determined the cause of the oil lost or usage.
radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
I've seen several references to the possibility of increased oil use after a valve job, and this is totally accurate. On an engine that required valve work due to mileage . This engine only had 17 thou on it, in my view this does not qualify for that caveat, not at all. And, after 35 years in the car and marine engine repair biz, this is an informed opinion. You'll see it on motors with 75 thou or more, or on terribly maintained engines, not on something with that low a mileage, especially one that has been well taken care of. Hell, on our race motors, with 15-25 races on them (circle motors), a valve freshening brought the tune back up, often running better than new.
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radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Sky, how was it running before you had the head work done? Not oil use, but in general?
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skyway
Well-known member
Before the head replacement the bike felt like it was running very smooth, engine fires first time, no surging, stable idle, TBS checks only ever required minimal adjustment, no loss of fluids, no leaks, everything seemed tip top. I could not have asked for more.
Prior to the tick and gradual loss of power over time, I never had any cause for concern.
BTW I just replaced the oil and will monitor it closely.
radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Then I can think of nothing done that should have changed that, short of some junk dropped and left in the cylinders that might have hurt the rings. This would be immediately noticed however, the motor would run uneven, rough, and be down on power. High mileage motors can burn substantial quantities of oil, yet not be real noticeable, because all the cylinders are burning it, so the use is spread around, and no cloud is emitted. If one cylinder got damaged however (the likelyhood of all of them being hurt is unlikely), the oil smoke would be obvious, not to mention the uneveness I mentioned. A quart in 2800 miles, through one hole, would also be evident on the plug, to the point of intermittent fouling, until that hole quit all together, especially on a four banger. Unless they left all the guide seals off, which is unlikely, or the head gasket is leaking compression into the chain cavity on the right side, causing heavy blowby, I just can't see head work causing heavy oil use on an otherwise healthy motor. Time will certainly tell.
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Toecutter
What would DoG do?
Man, what a headache. Hope it all works out soon, you've been through enough already with this tick issue.
04FJR4ME
Well-known member
Do a leak down and a compression test to verify the engine is o.k. You can even add a cup of solvent through each spark plug hole and see how long it takes the solvent to leak by the rings.
The rings could have collapsed or weaken over time, if you over heated or ran it low on oil, premature engine wear can occur, you did say you gradually lost power over time.
Best thing to do is keep an eye on it, put oil dye and see where the oil is going.
The rings could have collapsed or weaken over time, if you over heated or ran it low on oil, premature engine wear can occur, you did say you gradually lost power over time.
Best thing to do is keep an eye on it, put oil dye and see where the oil is going.
skyway
Well-known member
This loss of power I believe was due to the exhaust valve guide wear, which is the tick. It was gradual though over maybe 6K. Since the new head is on, power is back no question.
RonBB
Well-known member
Skyway good luck in figuring out the problem. I'm currently at 14.5K on my 05 & using the Yamalub. I can't tell that mine ever uses any. Be sure & keep us up to date on what you find. Best Regards.
skyway
Well-known member
I'm not quite out of the woods yet. There is still the periodic flashing ABS warning light that I traced in an error code to the front wheel sensor. I am not as concerned about this though and will wait until the weather cools off to deal with it.
roiscuba
Member
I had a strange quirk in my old truck that is similiar to this. I had a 86 S-10 w/ the 151in 4cyl. Normal fill for that engine was 3 quarts. The entire 15 years I owned that truck, within a couple of days after an oil change it would go through a quart of oil and then never go through any more. So for 275,000 miles, that truck was running on 2 quarts of oil.
I never found a leak, it wasn't burning it that I could tell. No smoke, no puddles, no oil anywhere in the engine bay, no oil residue in the exhaust but the oil had to go somewhere??????
But I got 275,000 miles out of it. Never could explain it nor could any of the mechanics that saw it.
I never found a leak, it wasn't burning it that I could tell. No smoke, no puddles, no oil anywhere in the engine bay, no oil residue in the exhaust but the oil had to go somewhere??????
But I got 275,000 miles out of it. Never could explain it nor could any of the mechanics that saw it.
skyway
Well-known member
I spoke yesterday with an experienced Yamaha mech. who had the exact same problem in the past with an FJ1200. New parts, bike was not smoking, no leaks, ran fine blah blah blah, but always used oil. He said that the remedy for him was a good long high speed run, let the engine cool and then he did another. This cured the oil use in that engine.
FJRocket
Doctor Throckenstein !!!
That's what I was thinking. Maybe the parts just need "seated" better, so just go out and run it hard and long. See what happens.I spoke yesterday with an experienced Yamaha mech. who had the exact same problem in the past with an FJ1200. New parts, bike was not smoking, no leaks, ran fine blah blah blah, but always used oil. He said that the remedy for him was a good long high speed run, let the engine cool and then he did another. This cured the oil use in that engine.
Not that it's anywhere near like your problem, I just rode my bike about 1000 miles over 2 days, hard and fast, for the first time since I've owned it. After that highway, 85+ mph run for hours on end, the bike just seems to run better. Maybe I'm just finally getting it broken in after pussyfooting it for over a year.
Anyway, I hope it works out to be an anomaly and everything is OK. Sounds like you already had your share of troubles with the bike.
Keep us posted!
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madmike2
Shtirrenuppenmeister
If only we hadn't been riding so slowly on the trip North.......and if we'd varied the RPMs a bit while riding the twisty roads.......maybe if we'd stopped every once in awhile for some sight-seeing and allowed the engine to go through some heat cycles.
It'll e interesting to see what the problem is (if it continues) or if it was just an anomoly.
It'll e interesting to see what the problem is (if it continues) or if it was just an anomoly.
skyway
Well-known member
Varied rpm's? you mean between the red line and rev limiter?
Sight seeing? I have at least 2 photo's I took on the entire trip!
Heat cycles? We were riding slow, I recall sleeping for 3 nights before getting to WFO.
Kristi just bought me this tee shirt.
smthng
He rocks!
This is kind of out there, but worth checking... Take a look UNDER the shaft side of the swing arm in front of the pumpkin. There's a drain hole right there. If you've got oil coming out of there, it might blow out while moving and not show up at any other time. But, if it's got a coating of oil on or around that hole, it's likely that the engine seal to the drive shaft is gone and the oil is flowing through your swingarm and out the drain.
It's a long shot, but easily checked.
It's a long shot, but easily checked.
