johnny80s
Turtle Gears
Where is Jestal when we need him?
Thread spin off about possible change to Rotella Diesel Oil
- Thread starter ShinyPartsUp
- Start date
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SouthernCruizer
Is it Beer:30 yet?
**************************************************Yep.... I was sold long ago.
I never bought into using a diesel oil in a motorcycle anyway.... <_<
The only real problem here is... buying it from The Great Satan.As everyone knows, every time you buy something from Walmart, a puppy dies.
Think of the puppies before purchasing. :lol:
Some of the pups do live...but do you want THIS >>
Think about it!
radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Pouting, I think. Still. Besides, with the info above, and his dissertation in the Bin-O-Facts, what more can be said?
About $9 a bottle at most GM dealers. You might be able to get it a little cheaper, but IIRC not a lot of wiggle room on cost of the stuff. Cam manufacturers have more or less the same thing, but it's usually even more.
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Been posted. READ the BLOODY THREAD MORON!!!
Wooo Hoo! It's Friday!!!
Patriot
Isabella is Lazarus
the discussion going on around motorcycle forums is the change in designation to "SM" .
everyone pretty much agreed that Rotella (I use synthetic) from SG to SL was good oil for bikes.
now there's some concern.
here's what I found which talks about current SM Rotella (they now also advertise "Triple Protection Formula" on the package
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T
Both the multigrade conventional oil (10W-30 and 15W-40) and the synthetic SAE 5W-40 meet the newest API certification of CJ-4/SM.
Shell is marketing their new CJ-4/SM oil as "Triple Protection," meaning it provides enhanced qualities for engine wear, soot control and engine cleanliness. Shell's Rotella website indicates that on-road testing confirms the new Triple Protection technology produces better anti-wear characteristics than their existing CI-4+ rated Rotella oil. This is achieved despite a lower zinc and phosphorus additive level as called for by the API CJ-4 specification. (The 15W-40 Rotella T with Triple Protection oil has approximately 1200 ppm of zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorus at the time of manufacture.)
Motorcycle usage
Though marketed as an engine oil for diesel trucks, Rotella oil has found popularity with motorcyclists as well. The properties of heavy duty engine oils tend to map to the same requirements of motorcycle oils, particularly those whose engine and transmission share the same oil. (This is called a "shared sump" design, which is unlike automobiles which maintain separate oil reservoirs - one for the engine and one for the transmission). The chemical additives found in heavy duty engine oils work well with motorcycles. In addition, the lack of "friction modifiers" in truck oils such as Rotella means they do not interfere with proper wet clutch operations.
everyone pretty much agreed that Rotella (I use synthetic) from SG to SL was good oil for bikes.
now there's some concern.
here's what I found which talks about current SM Rotella (they now also advertise "Triple Protection Formula" on the package
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T
Both the multigrade conventional oil (10W-30 and 15W-40) and the synthetic SAE 5W-40 meet the newest API certification of CJ-4/SM.
Shell is marketing their new CJ-4/SM oil as "Triple Protection," meaning it provides enhanced qualities for engine wear, soot control and engine cleanliness. Shell's Rotella website indicates that on-road testing confirms the new Triple Protection technology produces better anti-wear characteristics than their existing CI-4+ rated Rotella oil. This is achieved despite a lower zinc and phosphorus additive level as called for by the API CJ-4 specification. (The 15W-40 Rotella T with Triple Protection oil has approximately 1200 ppm of zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorus at the time of manufacture.)
Motorcycle usage
Though marketed as an engine oil for diesel trucks, Rotella oil has found popularity with motorcyclists as well. The properties of heavy duty engine oils tend to map to the same requirements of motorcycle oils, particularly those whose engine and transmission share the same oil. (This is called a "shared sump" design, which is unlike automobiles which maintain separate oil reservoirs - one for the engine and one for the transmission). The chemical additives found in heavy duty engine oils work well with motorcycles. In addition, the lack of "friction modifiers" in truck oils such as Rotella means they do not interfere with proper wet clutch operations.
johnny80s
Turtle Gears
Well since your so smart where is he? It seems like lots of us want to know.
Simon and his brother Darrel and his other brother Darrel.
vabrzn
Well-known member
"(The 15W-40 Rotella T with Triple Protection oil has approximately 1200 ppm of zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorus at the time of manufacture.)"
These numbers are in line with the amounts in Mobil's motorcycle specific oil; atleast a couple of years ago.
These numbers are in line with the amounts in Mobil's motorcycle specific oil; atleast a couple of years ago.
Warchild
Benevolent Dictator
I have chatted with jestal some.
He is essentially taking a sabbatical from the forum, as he has an awful lot of personal items to address that are taking up most of his time.
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
Please do not listen to or follow any reccos by BMW (especially for other brands of motorcycles) -- they are NOT the paragons of reliability/dependability (by any stretch of the imagination...
).As much as I appreciate their efforts to inform, I want to dismiss the whole article when I read (from the S/R article):
The "W" means that the oil was put through 'Winter' testing for cranking and pumpability, etc. -- which might not sound too important for motorcycles until you realize that most engine wear takes place on start-up.
For the "Chicken Little"s (from the S/R article):
Pretty insignificant....
'radman's correct about high pressure additives and the fact that 'things change' (and, the multiplicitous claims by small producers :huh: :blink: ).
Ford has an engine that uses shim & bucket cam followers (like the FJR) in World markets but uses heads with roller cam-followers w/rocker-arms for the American market -- for: hydraulic lifters (no valve adj.); less friction with the needle-roller bearing (more mpg); and less need for oil additives (that may, eventually, foul the cat-con). The major offenders (from a friction perspective) are the sliding-friction rocker-arm followers that many manufacturers employ -- the main culprit being the added lift-ratio from the cam lobe to the valve stem (extra, extreme, pressure). The FJR doesn't have this "feature" and uses the, notably reliable (and, low-wear), shim & bucket system.
I'd say: until we get a multitude of reports of cam lobe scoring and follower (shim) scoring -- much of the previous discussion just doesn't apply.
MamaYama reccos: "API Service SE, SF, SG, or higher" and "No Energy Conserving II" (anti-friction additives).
YMMV -- and, of course, you're free to use whatever you want....
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
charismaticmegafauna: Those ppm levels didn't come from BMW, Valvoline or Mobil; were direct from independent lab work.Please do not listen to or follow any reccos by BMW (especially for other brands of motorcycles) -- they are NOT the paragons of reliability/dependability (by any stretch of the imagination...
As much as I appreciate their efforts to inform, I want to dismiss the whole article when I read (from the S/R article):
The "W" means that the oil was put through 'Winter' testing for cranking and pumpability, etc. -- which might not sound too important for motorcycles until you realize that most engine wear takes place on start-up.
For the "Chicken Little"s (from the S/R article):
Pretty insignificant....
'radman's correct about high pressure additives and the fact that 'things change' (and, the multiplicitous claims by small producers :huh: :blink: ).
Ford has an engine that uses shim & bucket cam followers (like the FJR) in World markets but uses heads with roller cam-followers w/rocker-arms for the American market -- for: hydraulic lifters (no valve adj.); less friction with the needle-roller bearing (more mpg); and less need for oil additives (that may, eventually, foul the cat-con). The major offenders (from a friction perspective) are the sliding-friction rocker-arm followers that many manufacturers employ -- the main culprit being the added lift-ratio from the cam lobe to the valve stem (extra, extreme, pressure). The FJR doesn't have this "feature" and uses the, notably reliable (and, low-wear), shim & bucket system.
I'd say: until we get a multitude of reports of cam lobe scoring and follower (shim) scoring -- much of the previous discussion just doesn't apply.
MamaYama reccos: "API Service SE, SF, SG, or higher" and "No Energy Conserving II" (anti-friction additives).
YMMV -- and, of course, you're free to use whatever you want....
Also, Matthew Parkhouse doesn't work for BMW! He's just "Certifiable Old Fart" like me who's been riding BMW since 1969!!!
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
That may very well be....
Still, this is no place for any info from (or about -- or, sourced from...) BMW. BMW is among those notorious manufacturers that use sliding-friction cam followers along with leverage-increasing rocker-arms that force increased extreme pressure on (already, metalurgically-speaking) shakey engine parts.
Poor/faulty engine design cannot be saved by oil discussions...
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beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
Absolutely not buying this reasoning on BMW engines one tiny little bit! I have over 500,000 miles on BMW twins and have never had a BMW engine fail on me; not once, not ever! Now, I don't trust the final drives in either my 1996 BMW R1100GS with 132,000 miles or my 2005 BMW R1150RT with 45,000 miles; I do admit the final drives are BMW Achilles Heel problem.That may very well be....
Still, this is no place for any info from (or about -- or, sourced from...)BMW. BMW is among those notorious manufacturers that use sliding friction cam followers along with leverage-increasing rocker-arms that force increased extreme pressure on (already, metalurgically-speaking) shakey engine parts.
Poor/faulty engine design cannot be saved by oil discussions...
And once again, to make it perfectly clear, BMW Owners News has no affiliation with BMW Factory; neither does Parkhouse!
Forty years with BMW Twins last March and highest mileage was 197,000 on 1986 R80RT. The engines are bullet proof solid!
Bobcattoo
Well-known member
OK, here's a question yet to be addressed(at least in this thread). Would it not be perfectly safe to mix Golden Spectro Synthetic with Valvoline 20W-50 M/C Oil on a 50/50 ratio. I have done this in the past.
Just to be clear; This has been done with an 02 Wing(57K currently). The FJR(32K) presumably had YamaLube until 20K when I switched it to Golden Spectro 20W-50 Synthetic Blend. I change every 4K.
Just to be clear; This has been done with an 02 Wing(57K currently). The FJR(32K) presumably had YamaLube until 20K when I switched it to Golden Spectro 20W-50 Synthetic Blend. I change every 4K.
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charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
Yep..., there are exceptions to the rule...!
But, please, go shill for BMW somewhere else....
The failures of the ill-conceived (heroic) designs are legend. If it weren't for their merry-band of faithfull boosters they'd be almost nothing.But..., I'm happy for your happiness...
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johnny80s
Turtle Gears
Hey just to be clear on this whole thing..... I'm the good looking dawg.
Spud
Well-known member
johnny80s
Turtle Gears
Spud
Well-known member
OK--it's Friday. What sucks from Shimano? BTW, we're still on topic here b/c shimano components use oil.
johnny80s
Turtle Gears
Never had any bike component that was 100% from them. Good but not 100%.
