Track bike / liter bike Which to get and why

[DRHall]

Looks floggable to me. Go in at $3500.

What tracks do you run out there Andre?

Dale

 

[2WheelTiger]

I've only done a couple of trackdays at Pacific Raceways in the Seattle area since I moved up here 2 years ago. I'm not doing anything close to active competition any more. 52 years on the planet and incurable blood cancer sorta puts the kabosh on kneedragging and powersliding.

I've run Hawaii Raceway Park, Willow Springs (24 hour events), Hallett (OK), Monterrey (MX), Texas World, Texas Motor, Oak Hill (TX), Motorsports Ranch (TX), Road Atlanta, and IRP. Maybe one other..... I forget.

Judging by your responses, you've run one or two. Tell us.

 

[DRHall]

Andre, I am very sorry to hear of your health situation. Cancer sucks in a big way, I know first hand. You are in my prayers.

I am not far behind you in age, but I am a newbie on the road track. Just did three days at Grattan raceway in Michigan in June. It was a total blast! I will be making my way to JenningsGP, Barber, and hopefuly Road Atlanta, soon.

I had a pretty extensive off road run years ago. Mostly hare scrambles in Illinios and New Hampshire. Spent a little time on a clay oval flat track.

What you said about learning the cornering techniques is so true. I am sure I will spend the rest of my riding time in an attempt to get it right and never come close! But it is such a rush when you think you get close to it!

 

[Randy]

I've run ...Willow Springs (24 hour events)...

What year(s) and with what team(s)? I was there in 2000 (working in the pits, not riding).

 

[RatoneMuerto]

Andre you probably have raced against someone I know,Terry Poovey.I have known his brother Teddy for over 30+ years.Probably the best wrench on the planet.My prayers are with you for your illness.I rode a lot of amatuer events for years but now the crashes have really caught up with me.I now take weeks to recover from any long distance ride because of my arthritis in my spine and neck.I'm 55.I look at the blessings I have and not the ability I no longer have.Your advice is so correct.First time I ever got on a open bike my brain was left at the starting line.I won but I never was so overwhelmed by how raw the power was.Maybe that is why I like Ducati and Buell so much.They are so forgiving and make you feel like a MotoGP star when you really stink at track days!

 

[Fencer]

What are race plastics?

Same skin just without cutouts for lights?

would that be the diff in some that are listed as race/track vs track road?

 

[Randy]

What are race plastics?
Same skin just without cutouts for lights?

would that be the diff in some that are listed as race/track vs track road?

Race plastics are 1 of 2 things:

1) stock bodywork that has been rashed that most people wouldn't use on their street bike, so, they put it on their sacrificial race/track day bike

2) fiberglass/composite bodywork that looks like stock bodywork that comes unpainted, but, in most cases, there aren't provisions for lights.

 

[NoCage]

What are race plastics?
Same skin just without cutouts for lights?

would that be the diff in some that are listed as race/track vs track road?

Race plastics are 1 of 2 things:

1) stock bodywork that has been rashed that most people wouldn't use on their street bike, so, they put it on their sacrificial race/track day bike

2) fiberglass/composite bodywork that looks like stock bodywork that comes unpainted, but, in most cases, there aren't provisions for lights.

What I've read is that the advantage of the fiberglass body work is that you can repair/patch it... lots cheaper than new tupperware.

 

[Randy]

What are race plastics?
Same skin just without cutouts for lights?

would that be the diff in some that are listed as race/track vs track road?

Race plastics are 1 of 2 things:

1) stock bodywork that has been rashed that most people wouldn't use on their street bike, so, they put it on their sacrificial race/track day bike

2) fiberglass/composite bodywork that looks like stock bodywork that comes unpainted, but, in most cases, there aren't provisions for lights.

What I've read is that the advantage of the fiberglass body work is that you can repair/patch it... lots cheaper than new tupperware.

You can also patch/repair oem bodywork. Yes, it's cheaper than OEM, but, for a race/track bike, you can sometimes piece together previously rashed OEM bodywork for the same/less than a new set of aftermarket bodywork. Plus, with OEM bodywork, you retain all of the stock mounting points. Sometimes it can be a pain to mount up aftermarket bodywork as it's usually not drilled. Sometimes there a dimples in aftermarket bodywork to show where holes could be drilled for mounting it, but, often those marks are off. Poorly mounted bodywork often gets destroyed in the lightest of crashes. The better and more solid its mounted, the better it crashes.

 

[rivgar]

I roadraced for 18 years. I'm an ex WERA race school instructor, ex WERA Race Director, and I have a couple of expert level regional championships with CMRA and WERA in the Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana region. (Ben Spies, Colin Edwards, etc. etc etc.) I'm only mentioning these things so you'll understand I have an experienced perspective. (It may not be correct, but it's experienced.)
If your interest is in getting better with a literbike, then by all means, buy any of the three and have fun.

However, if your interest is in getting GOOD at corners, planning, execution, and recovery, then buy an old 600 and learn how to wring its neck. There is a thing called RACECRAFT that you'll never learn by starting on a literbike. Too much concentration is required on a literbike, and when you're supposed to be thinking about your next corner entry, you'll be spending your time trying to figure out why the back end stepped out violently about 0.1 seconds ago.

When you hop on a literbike and start to use it near its potential, all kinds of things happen. Things you never thought about! Are you prepared for a 150 mph wheelie that's caused by a slight rise in the racetrack that's insignificant at 120? Are you prepared to be able to ignite the rear tire at any angle or speed you want?

All I'm saying is, there are skills used on the track that "you don't know you don't know". A pre-crashed, already discounted, former racebike from a prior generation allows you to not worry about the hardware or the surprises. That way you can spend your time and money on the cerebral part of getting good. Believe me...... there's lots of mental homework, mental stress, and intense thought that goes into getting good.

Besides, it's cool to take your old hunk-o-junk and slay a few 'invaders'.

YMMV

:withstupidsmiley:

Lots of race prepped SV-650's and Ninja 500's out there.

 

[DRHall]

What are race plastics?
Same skin just without cutouts for lights?

would that be the diff in some that are listed as race/track vs track road?

Race plastics are 1 of 2 things:

1) stock bodywork that has been rashed that most people wouldn't use on their street bike, so, they put it on their sacrificial race/track day bike

2) fiberglass/composite bodywork that looks like stock bodywork that comes unpainted, but, in most cases, there aren't provisions for lights.

What I've read is that the advantage of the fiberglass body work is that you can repair/patch it... lots cheaper than new tupperware.

You can also patch/repair oem bodywork. Yes, it's cheaper than OEM, but, for a race/track bike, you can sometimes piece together previously rashed OEM bodywork for the same/less than a new set of aftermarket bodywork. Plus, with OEM bodywork, you retain all of the stock mounting points. Sometimes it can be a pain to mount up aftermarket bodywork as it's usually not drilled. Sometimes there a dimples in aftermarket bodywork to show where holes could be drilled for mounting it, but, often those marks are off. Poorly mounted bodywork often gets destroyed in the lightest of crashes. The better and more solid its mounted, the better it crashes.

Good points!

A couple other things: Race plastics are typically significantly lighter than OEM. They usually are set up differently so you can pull the lower fairings off in one piece, and the upper the same. Some orginizations have you pull the lower for tech inspection, maybe just for racing, not sure.

Probably the biggest thing I could say in favor of race body work is that the lowers have fliud containment built in (most that I know of anyway). If you should start dropping oil or coolant (even if it is just water) it can ruin your day quick when it hits you rear tire. Catch pans or containment body work is required by race org's, maybe some trackday operators, too.

 

[Rickster]

don't forget the V-twins such as the Honda RC51 or Aprilia Mille.

 

[2WheelTiger]

Probably the biggest thing I could say in favor of race body work is that the lowers have fliud containment built in (most that I know of anyway). If you should start dropping oil or coolant (even if it is just water) it can ruin your day quick when it hits you rear tire. Catch pans or containment body work is required by race org's, maybe some trackday operators, too.

Here's a BIG plus one! Remember, the first guy to crash in a fluid spill is the spiller, often followed by several of his 'closest friends'. Sandwiches should only be served at lunch.

 

[2WheelTiger]

I've run ...Willow Springs (24 hour events)...

What year(s) and with what team(s)? I was there in 2000 (working in the pits, not riding).

My last time out there was as the team organizer and builder of the EXFH. The EX From Hell. We ran as Team EX Racelist back when small bikes didn't have a class of their own. Our efforts were written up by Sport Rider Magazine and the following year Zoran Vusanovic's (?) team won the newly created small bike class on an SV.

I honestly don't remember which year that was. 1999? 2000?

 

[2WheelTiger]

Andre you probably have raced against someone I know,Terry Poovey.I have known his brother Teddy for over 30+ years.Probably the best wrench on the planet.My prayers are with you for your illness.I rode a lot of amatuer events for years but now the crashes have really caught up with me.I now take weeks to recover from any long distance ride because of my arthritis in my spine and neck.I'm 55.I look at the blessings I have and not the ability I no longer have.Your advice is so correct.First time I ever got on a open bike my brain was left at the starting line.I won but I never was so overwhelmed by how raw the power was.Maybe that is why I like Ducati and Buell so much.They are so forgiving and make you feel like a MotoGP star when you really stink at track days!

The Pooveys are well known in NTex, but I wasn't racing in that area until sometime after Terry's days.

I'm completely with you on the broken bones and crashing thing. Time is an evil mistress, but at least we (in the collective of all motorcyclists) are still LIVING life, not just staying alive.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Hey Andre,

You wouldn't happen to know Terry Gregorica would you? He had a team down that way a few years ago. "Blew by you" ring a bell? Anyways he's a buddy from High School days, owns the Honda dealership here in town.

:jester:

 

[2WheelTiger]

Hey Andre,You wouldn't happen to know Terry Gregorica would you? He had a team down that way a few years ago. "Blew by you" ring a bell? Anyways he's a buddy from High School days, owns the Honda dealership here in town.

:jester:

Sorry, I sure don't.....

 

[fjrrider]

Hey Kevin, I'm glad I saw your post cause I've been considering the same thing. I dont have the race experiance these other guys do, but I'll tell you what I've done so far.

First thing is I broke down spent the money and went to Salt Lake City to Freddie Spencers school at Miller. I was amazed at how much I learned about riding a sport road bike. I've done alot of enduros and harescrambles and can tell you how physicaly exhausting that kind of riding is. Spending several hours and two days on a CBR 600 on a track is every bit as hard. This surprised me, I was so sore afterwards it inspired a big improvement in my workout program.

Before I went I thought a litre bike was what I wanted, not any more. At my age (47) I'm quite sure I'll never be able to ride a stock 600 to its full potential.

I know Freddie is a World Champion and all, but what that guy can do on a SV 650 riding 2 up is incredible. There were several guys that rode track days on a regular basis and he could catch and pass them 2 UP! and they were on CBR 600's!

You and I rode a few days together at SFO and you know how I like to ride. So my point is, if you can spare the bucks a good riding school will really open your eyes to what track riding is all about. It sure opened mine.

Good Luck!

 

[burnergold2B]

GSXR, R-1 or a CBR 1000? advantage of one over the other. If you have a bike I didn't list, add it.
The Buell catches my eye as well, but I don't know about performance.

I had a GSXR1K for my second race bike doing CCS here in the Midwest. It was an '01, great fun and all, but a little too big of a motor for local tracks. It was perfect for Rd America, but the rest of the tracks are better suited to twins or I-4 600/750s. I now race an '01 GSXR 750. It has plenty of HP at the wheel, parts availability is great, and the handling difference is great too.

Do not be afraid of the Buells, particularly the XB12Rs. If you were to get interested in racing all their '03s and newer qualify for contingency money in CCS and Moto-ST endurance.

 

[IRBR]

Since there are so many good motorcycles for both street and track, and because selecting one is such a personal choice, it is very hard to recommend a bike for another person. I don't know of any bad ones. But, I do know the reason we bought ours.

My wife and I ride 2005 and 2006 GSX-R1000's.

I've owned 9 motorcycles and ridden 2 or 3 times that many. The Suzuki GSX-R1000 has the most precise throttle control I've ever experienced.

I'd recommend the GSXR just for its precise throttle which I believe is a distinguishing characteristic. Plus, I like everything about the bike.

My 2 cents,

IRBR