Trying to decide between shocks, need some advice.

[Chiefblueman]

Yep, didn't see your edit. The spring may effectively have more than two rates, there is a transition from low to high. You might even say it's progressive. The fork springs from my FZ1 were progressive and delivered, for me, a similar ride to the stock Gen1 ie: a wooden feeling and a bit harsh. Both bikes have had their springs changed to single rate, straight wound springs that are as Fred described.

 

[ULEWZ]

To get this thread back on topic, I got a quote from GP suspension and will probably use them for the shock. The forks are a bit expensive, so I may rethink that option.

 

[Fred W]

I don't really see where this went off topic.

For rear, FSM doesn't say. Most mag reports say 121.9mm or 4.8". But I have seen one that says 125mm or 4.9". And Yammie website says 4.9". So which is it? I know, not a big deal. Just would like the correct number to base my SAG calculations on.

Excellent point, Greg. The FSM shows the shock stroke specs, but you'd need to know all of the angles and dangles to figure out what the amplification factor is for one mm in shock stroke as it relates to the rear wheel travel. That info isn't shown anywhere, but that is what we need to deal with for setting up the suspension.

OK, I found it. It is in the Rear Wheel specs section as "Rear Wheel travel", same value for both gens. 125mm (4.92").

So the correct spring sag should be 28-33% of 125, = 35 - 41mm.

And we know the shock stroke is 60mm (2.36") for both generations, so you can do the math from there.

 

[MCRIDER007]

OK, I found it. It is in the Rear Wheel specs section as "Rear Wheel travel", same value for both gens. 125mm (4.92").
So the correct spring sag should be 28-33% of 125, = 35 - 41mm.

And we know the shock stroke is 60mm (2.36") for both generations, so you can do the math from there.

Those sag numbers seem high to me but I don't pay much attention to sag unless I'm shopping for a new spring.

I wonder how they compute the shock's stroke because if you look at a aftermarket shock with an exposed shaft, the amount actually available for travel is much less and the ratio of rear wheel travel to shock stroke is about 2.7:1 on the GEN2 FJR.

 

[Fred W]

I just realized that the spring rates I was quoting for 1st gens was only for bikes up to '03. The '04 and '05's actually had different fork springs than the earlier bikes, and they are actually stiffer in the second stage at 1.1 kg/mm. So let's try to get this all in a single table that is easier to see/use:

 

[MCRIDER007]

I just realized that the spring rates I was quoting for 1st gens was only for bikes up to '03. The '04 and '05's actually had different fork springs than the earlier bikes, and they are actually stiffer in the second stage at 1.1 kg/mm. So let's try to get this all in a single table that is easier to see/use:

This gets more and more confusing, perhaps because the springs on the US models were different than those sold in Europe. I have a old Manual for the 03 and it shows the fork springs as .735 kg/mm for the entire 135 mm.

It also shows the spring rate for the lower spring in the shock as 10.2 kg/mm but more importantly, the spring rate for the shock's upper spring is actually much higher than the lower spring, and the 7.3kg/mm rate is actually the combined rate of the two springs in series (soft setting) and that spring rate would be in effect for the entire stroke. Likewise, when in the hard setting, only the lower spring is used and the rate for that spring would be in effect for the entire stroke.......so is the stroke 30mm or 60 mm?

This manual also shows Yamaha's 01 fork oil as being a 10wt.

 

[ULEWZ]

What is the terminal velocity of a unladen swallow.?

 

[FJRBluesman]

What is the terminal velocity of a unladen swallow.?

African or European?

Silly person!

 

[Fred W]

It may be that the euro specs were different. The manuals I am looking at for these specs are:

LIT-11616-16-18 for 03 and earlier and LIT-11616-17-27 which is the addendum for '04/'05. The two together make up LIT-11616-FJ-02, and these apply to US spec bikes only.

Sorry if this is getting too technical for you, ULEWZ. Many people would want to know what they have now (stock) before paying big bux for a new suspension, and getting the right spring rate on your new suspension is a big part of the upgrade.

Or you can just blindly send big chunks of cash to one of the 3 big upgrade shops and use whatever they send you (and hope that they got it right).

 

[MCRIDER007]

.

Sorry if this is getting too technical for you, ULEWZ. Many people would want to know what they have now (stock) before paying big bux for a new suspension, and getting the right spring rate on your new suspension is a big part of the upgrade.
Or you can just blindly send big chunks of cash to one of the 3 big upgrade shops and use whatever they send you (and hope that they got it right).

I think this is a very important point. I never bothered getting a new service manual for my 08 and wasn't aware that the lower spring rate in the shock changed on the GEN2s. I was aware that the upper spring's rate had increased (from 1400 to 1800) changing the soft setting's effective rate but everything I read indicated the hard setting spring rate stayed the same. Going from 11.99 to 12.64 isn't a significant change but everything counts when you are trying to determine the correct spring rate.

 

[ULEWZ]

I ordered the Penske shock. Now on to the forks. I can get the Race Tech Gold Valve Fork Kit - Type 1 FMGV S2047C for $260 (includes rebound and compression valves), order springs for $105 and do it myself or. I can pay way over $600 to have it all done with new valves, or I can have Lindermann engineering revalve using stock parts for middle $400s (not sure stock parts is a good idea, but I do not know).

So my latest questions are:

Spring rate for 180lbs (no gear), 1.0 or 1.1?

Do the valves myself or pay to have it done, either new valves or using stock parts?

 

[MCRIDER007]

I ordered the Penske shock. Now on to the forks. I can get the Race Tech Gold Valve Fork Kit - Type 1 FMGV S2047C for $260 (includes rebound and compression valves), order springs for $105 and do it myself or. I can pay way over $600 to have it all done with new valves, or I can have Lindermann engineering revalve using stock parts for middle $400s (not sure stock parts is a good idea, but I do not know).So my latest questions are:

Spring rate for 180lbs (no gear), 1.0 or 1.1?

Do the valves myself or pay to have it done, either new valves or using stock parts?

The fork spring rate is easy.....either will work but 1.0 probably would be the better choice for your weight.

I would be tempted to try Lindermann because of their reputation and because I am not aware that anyone else has done it.....but I wonder if they have actually seen the FJR damping pistons, rebuilding those would really be a challenge. Buying the parts from Racetech or GP Suspension and installing them yourself is certainly cost effective and the end result will be the same if you have the right tools and know what you are doing. You are going to need a 26mm socket welded to a pipe to remove the cartridge and will probably need a 20mm cartridge holder to remove the damping pistons (without damaging the cartridge) as well as some way to apply heat to the cartridge to loosen up the lock tight that Yamaha uses on the damping pistons. You are also going to have to make some kind of spring spacer adjustment since the replacement springs will probably be a different length. None of this is difficult with the right tools but its probably better to watch someone else do it the first time.

 

[BackRoadBob]

Hey Scooter,

If you need (and I really need) some help dialing in suspension, let me know. Whatever works for you.

 

[1stepcloser]

I ordered the Penske shock. Now on to the forks. I can get the Race Tech Gold Valve Fork Kit - Type 1 FMGV S2047C for $260 (includes rebound and compression valves), order springs for $105 and do it myself or. I can pay way over $600 to have it all done with new valves, or I can have Lindermann engineering revalve using stock parts for middle $400s (not sure stock parts is a good idea, but I do not know).So my latest questions are:

Spring rate for 180lbs (no gear), 1.0 or 1.1?

Do the valves myself or pay to have it done, either new valves or using stock parts?

I would pay Race Tech the $100.00 to install the parts. Give them a call and work with them, let them know what you want from the bike. I have had three different bikes with their gear, and they are nothing less than than the best bikes I've ridden.

*note* I did the last one myself... then took it to them to set it up.

 

[ULEWZ]

I have a quick question (need help FAST).

I installed the gold valve kit, cut the rebound adjusting rod, added new springs, cut the spacers, and now I have 15 available turns on the right rebound adjuster and only 5 rebound turns on the left from fully clockwise. I measured one rebound adjusting rod and cut the other to match.

Note: the racetech needle and spring did not compress nearly as far as the stock rebound spring and needle (yes I did drill 1 inch in the rebound dampening rod both sides).

Racetech recommends a starting rebound adjustment of 22 turns out?

Is my rebound adjusting rod still too long?

How many turns from fully in should I be getting on the rebound circuit?

 

[ULEWZ]

I have a quick question (need help FAST).I installed the gold valve kit, cut the rebound adjusting rod, added new springs, cut the spacers, and now I have 15 available turns on the right rebound adjuster and only 5 rebound turns on the left from fully clockwise. I measured one rebound adjusting rod and cut the other to match.

Note: the racetech needle and spring did not compress nearly as far as the stock rebound spring and needle (yes I did drill 1 inch in the rebound dampening rod both sides).

Racetech recommends a starting rebound adjustment of 22 turns out?

Is my rebound adjusting rod still too long?

How many turns from fully in should I be getting on the rebound circuit?

Edit, this appears to be a cap adjustment. How many clicks from full in to set the cap where it bottoms out?

 

[escapefjrtist]

Not familiar with the Race Tech kit and changing the length of the damper adjusting rod.

On a GP equipped fork I do the following:

1) Back out the rebound damper adjuster on the fork cap completely CCW.

2) Spin the nut all the way down on the damper rod.

3) Spin the fork cap on until it bottoms. There will be a couple threads between the top of the nut and bottom of cap.

4) Turn nut up to cap and tighten.

Hope this helps.

--G

 

[ULEWZ]

Not familiar with the Race Tech kit and changing the length of the damper adjusting rod.
On a GP equipped fork I do the following:

1) Back out the rebound damper adjuster on the fork cap completely CCW.

2) Spin the nut all the way down on the damper rod.

3) Spin the fork cap on until it bottoms. There will be a couple threads between the top of the nut and bottom of cap.

4) Turn nut up to cap and tighten.

Hope this helps.

--G

Completely CCW did not give me enough rebound adjustment. I reread the FJR fork disassembly instructions from this forum and found a locknut adjustment of 12mm. That did not work for me either, so I set my locknut adjustment until I could get 30 clicks of rebound adjustment. That gave me a little less than 12mm. Probably more like 10mm, but my rebound adjusting rod length was also a tad longer than from the FJR fork disassembly thread. I will use that for now and try and figure out the base rebound adjustment from full CW.

I will probably start with 5 from full CW.

What did the other gold valve installers set the rebound and compression to?

 

[FJRMGM]

been very happy with the Wilburs suspension on my '05 FJR. Been running it for 80,000 miles now and have the rear shock rebuilt every 25-30k.