valve stem seals

[radman]

So, what I hear you saying, Rad, is that we're all riding FJRs with "sub-par" engines anyway and having a "ticker" may well be a good-thing -- in that, we'll have the opportunity to finally get the bike's performance up-to-spec? A silver-lining, so-to-speak?

No, not "sub-par". Re-read the post. All I'm saying is that any engine responds well to a a valve job, especially if the rest of the motor is in good condition. Take a brand new hi-perf engine, break it in on the dyno (ie: picture perfect break in), lap the valves and adjust, and it will produce more power. It's not that it ran bad before, just that it now is "purrrrfect"....

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I kinda doubt that they're getting the valve-job you're talking about in the back-room of their friendly neighborhood Yammie shop? The kind of shop that orders one-extra valve guide.... or, puts the brake pads in wrong....

Not saying it couldn't happen -- multi-angle valve re-seating -- but highly unlikely, jmo.

 

[radman]

Replacing guides and valves demands seat grinding and thats essentially what a valve job is-a refreshing of the mating surface between valve face and seat, as well as reaming the guides to spec etc. The shop most likely is not the one doing the head work-few have the tools or expertise-but a machine shop is. How well the head works is up to them. Being as motorcycle machine work is somewhat of a specialty (aluminum thin-wall castings, small parts with very close tolerances), shops that do it are fairly rare, do work for multiple dealerships as well as walk-ins, are comfortable with hi-perf, and don't last 20 minutes if they turn out junk. The heads probably nice, the rest??????? Who knows.

 

[BrunDog]

From the auto industry side of things Yamaha's reaction to the tick problem is typical of the Japanese auto industry and has been repeated many times with their cars in the past. It is also part of the reason the Japanese car companies have such a sterling reputation for reliability and quality. They never admit anything was wrong and routinely offer "extended warranties" without publicly admitting anything was wrong and they never leave any sort of paper trail...i.e...part number changes, service bulletines, etc....to document that there was a problem. Consumer Reports has fallen for this tactic the worst for they often quote how many "service bulletines" or "recalls" the US companies have for a particular model as if that indicated some level of quality. The Japanese companies just don't issue any bulletines, even though there are problems, so CR never picks up on the problems. Since most of the service bulletines are informational items anyway it is really a sore point with a lot of the US companies over how the foreign companies operate...

After hearing a Yamaha insider's view - they will NOT admit anything. Hell, they won't even agree there is a problem and maintain that very few tickers have actually even evolved.

[POTENTIAL HIJACKING PORTION]

And Jestal, I was afraid this was going to happen. While I agree the Japanese culture is one of pride and silent resolution (I worked for one for ten years), I can't help but feel that you are proactively defending American automobile manufacturers by inferring that their quality is relatively better by perception alone.

I know where your bread is buttered, but c'mon! Surely you jest, jestal! I personally cannot believe the disappointing river of product that flows out of Detroit year after year, despite the claims of higher, better quality.

Perception or not, Toyota is about to (if not already done) show GM the steps off the throne. GM has been in a market share slide for a looooong time. Is this because they have done a great job on the marketing side only?

[/POTENTIAL HIJACKING PORTION]

-BD

 

[jestal]

All I pointed out was that the actions of Yamaha regarding tickers are not unexpected and not without precedent in the Japanese auto industry. If you want to hijack the thread in the direction you mentioned I will be more than happy to joust with you....LOL. Probably would be better to start another thread, though, and keep the discussion about tickers on track here.

Per your comment about perceived quality, yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If you do your research on the internet in the various Toyota and Honda forums you will find MANY unhappy owners with many chronic problems. It happens. But the PERCEPTION out there is that it never does. True. And one way the Japanese companies keep that perception alive is to never admit problems and never issue service bulletins or change part numbers so as to leave a paper trail. The FJR situation is just another example.

I mention this because it was pretty difficult for me to find out about the alternate valve seals from Yamaha. Even thru several different dealers. There are dealers out there that I KNOW have fixed tickers and still do not know about the alternate seals Yamaha is so tight lipped about it. Keep that perception of perfection going. 14 tickers all total??? LOL.

 

[BrunDog]

Agree on the hijack thing. Another thread on another day.

You are to be commended for delving in this deeply and sharing your opinions, Japanese culture notwithstanding. Nobody has, or could, or would, for that matter, do this. Of course, nobody has a scanning electron microscope laying around, either. Cool stuff, and it is thrilling to know you may have exposed the root cause when Yamaha will not solve the problem.

If there is anyway you could throw up some pictures of the seals and everything you have exposed, it would be cool. I can host for you if you need.

-BD