VFR1200

[norcal1]

Just finished reading an article in Sport Rider about the new Honda VFR. Seems to be a nice machine but it's really expensive. The saddle bags(not included) are $1399. The top box is $599. And the base plate for the top box is $399. All on a bike with a base price of $17000.

I realize that Honda has to recoup the cost of the tooling but that is ridiculous.

Oh, and the saddle bags can't hold a full-face helmet. only the $900 (total) trunk can.

I love my FJR!

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I haven't read the Sport Rider article but: I think the Honda VFR 1200 is a paradigm shift in sport-touring motorcycles -- and not easily compared with any that have gone before. It's just on another, higher/different, plateau.

I don't know if that justifies the prices or not? But, comparing that V-4 engine and it's novel transmission (if equipped) to other, more traditional, motorcycles just isn't appropriate from a concept standpoint (I think).

It doesn't mean it'll find ready acceptance in the general motorcycling community either -- I've heard 'mixed reviews'.

Now, it could be said that all it has to do is carry a rider (and maybe a passenger) and some gear down the road -- if that's the criteria?, then a C-10 Concours may be even a better deal than the FJR? :blink:

 

[El Toro]

You really have to put this in the context of the current value of the US dollar relative to the Yen. Last I looked (a week or two ago) the ratio was something like 83 yen to the dollar. It wasn't that long ago that the ratio was up well over 100, or even 120. If the dollar were stronger, the VFR1200 might look like a reasonable deal.

 

[Surly]

I am wrapped in my 2004 FJR1300. It does not have to be new or wizbang to get my vote.

Upright not Uptight

Regards

Surly

h34r:

 

[AsItLies]

I haven't read the Sport Rider article but: I think the Honda VFR 1200 is a paradigm shift in sport-touring motorcycles -- and not easily compared with any that have gone before. It's just on another, higher/different, plateau.

I don't know if that justifies the prices or not? But, comparing that V-4 engine and it's novel transmission (if equipped) to other, more traditional, motorcycles just isn't appropriate from a concept standpoint (I think).

It doesn't mean it'll find ready acceptance in the general motorcycling community either -- I've heard 'mixed reviews'.

Now, it could be said that all it has to do is carry a rider (and maybe a passenger) and some gear down the road -- if that's the criteria?, then a C-10 Concours may be even a better deal than the FJR? :blink:

Have looked carefully at the 1200, sat on one but not ridden one. Have owned 2 vtecs. While there's clearly some great aspects about the new vfr (that engine), the ergos are pretty much like the vtec. So in that regard, it's not really anything dramatic.

I think it's a beautiful bike, but the ergos on my vtecs just got to be too much after a few hours, much prefer the more relaxed position of the feej.

 

[JR'SFJR]

I just returned from 2 weeks riding in Europe, where I rode a BMW800st(about 85 hp + 460lbs), which was a great mountain bike in the switchbacks. I had a chance to swap bikes with a VFR1200 rider going up the south side of Stelvio Pass in N. Italy. The biggest challenge riders had with the VFR, including me, was the drive line lash and on-off throttle in the tight switchback turns. Didn't care for that at all. A little like my FJR before G2, cable adjust, and spring release. I didn't think it had the low end torque the FJR has either, but it sure rolled on at higher rpm. Beautiful bike, but I won't trade.

 

[MCRIDER007]

You really have to put this in the context of the current value of the US dollar relative to the Yen. Last I looked (a week or two ago) the ratio was something like 83 yen to the dollar. It wasn't that long ago that the ratio was up well over 100, or even 120. If the dollar were stronger, the VFR1200 might look like a reasonable deal.

I doubt it because I would still be comparing the price of the bagless VFR1200 to the price of a FJR or C14. Honda claims that the VFR is a sport bike and never was intended to compete in the sport touring market...if so, why is it so heavy and why doesn't it have fully adjustable suspension? If the VFR is supposed to be a sport bike than I guess we should be comparing it to the ZX-14 or Hayabusa, both of which are lighter, faster, have fully adjustable suspension, and cost much less (but they do not have ABS or a shaft drive). The BMW K1300S does have ABS and shaft drive and is close to the VFR in price but several of the European magazines have had shoot outs between the two and the BMW has been the easy winner. So why buy a VFR? It does have a great paint job.

 

[noland]

I was in a dealership yesterday that sold both Yamaha and Honda products. I sat on the VFR1200. It is a beautiful machine. However, my rear end told me in less than 15 seconds that this was no bike I would want to spend time on. One could add a new and better aftermarket seat, but that just adds to an already expensive motorcycle.

As a sidenote, I was at a Polaris dealership two days ago and ran into a friend that introduced me to sport touring and thus eventually lead me to purchase the FJR. He was there on his BMW R1200RT. Somehow I think that though I love my FJR, a BMW is in my future...

 

[WonkoSane]

One more vote for, man the VFR is uncomfortable. I'm not really sure what the point of it is either. For myself, it wouldn't tour well, and as has been pointed out, I don't see it as being in the same league as a true corner carver.

 

[Draggon Rider]

Just finished reading an article in Sport Rider about the new Honda VFR. Seems to be a nice machine but it's really expensive. The saddle bags(not included) are $1399. The top box is $599. And the base plate for the top box is $399. All on a bike with a base price of $17000.

I realize that Honda has to recoup the cost of the tooling but that is ridiculous.

Oh, and the saddle bags can't hold a full-face helmet. only the $900 (total) trunk can.

I love my FJR!

After reading this and after seeing the price of a new FJR without the truck. I REALLY LOVE MY 05.

 

[norcal1]

What really struck me is how expensive the bags and trunk are. Ridiculous!

Even Harley bags aren't that much!

 

[bikerkash]

The VFR appears to be a great bike but where does it really fit? It's not a real sport bike and it it's a very good sport touring bike for a number of reasons and if it's well equiped it's too expensive. It will be interesting to see where Honda goes with this bike and high tech things they have built into it. The ST 1300 is badly in need of an update, makes me wonder it some of these high tech things are heading for that bike and maybe the Gold Wing. Yamaha continues to draw back while other like Honda & BMW are moving forward. The FJR, which I real love, in really in need of an update but nothing seems to be in sight.

 

[FJRMGM]

$1400 for hard bags!!!?????

you add all the options to that bike and you are right at the 20k mark...

For that price a BMW sure looks good.

In the meantime I will keep my long-payed-for '05 FJR..

 

[JR'SFJR]

Nov. Rider has a ST ride comparison of the Concours, FJR, VFR, and Sprint GT, placing in that order.

 

[El Toro]

You really have to put this in the context of the current value of the US dollar relative to the Yen. Last I looked (a week or two ago) the ratio was something like 83 yen to the dollar. It wasn't that long ago that the ratio was up well over 100, or even 120. If the dollar were stronger, the VFR1200 might look like a reasonable deal.

I doubt it because I would still be comparing the price of the bagless VFR1200 to the price of a FJR or C14. Honda claims that the VFR is a sport bike and never was intended to compete in the sport touring market...if so, why is it so heavy and why doesn't it have fully adjustable suspension? If the VFR is supposed to be a sport bike than I guess we should be comparing it to the ZX-14 or Hayabusa, both of which are lighter, faster, have fully adjustable suspension, and cost much less (but they do not have ABS or a shaft drive). The BMW K1300S does have ABS and shaft drive and is close to the VFR in price but several of the European magazines have had shoot outs between the two and the BMW has been the easy winner. So why buy a VFR? It does have a great paint job.

If you look at the Yamaha Motorsports web site for the USA, they have an MSRP of $15,490 for the vanilla flavored FJR A model - another silver one. There's not that much to choose between the 2011 FJR and the 2011 VFR, except for things that are fairly personal, like gut reaction and comfort level. The weak dollar level relative to the yen is going to whack all of these high end Japanese bikes.

Meanwhile, I went with the K1300S back in June, and I am extremely happy with it. After my love affair with the FJR AE model while nursing an injured left foot, I've lost interest in the auto shifting stuff. Also picked up a Rocket III Touring with the heel/toe shifter, and if my foot ever gives up on upshifting with the toe again, I'm all set. I have to be honest though... I do miss the AE when I am stuck in heavy traffic. I really enjoyed it under those circumstances.

Honda made the Hondamatic transmissions and stuck them on bikes at the end of the 70's. They didn't catch on thn either. I am somewhat surprised at how little Honda wants to learn from the experiences of other companies. I would have thought that Yamaha's lackluster experience with the AE would have put the kibosh on development of a similar model by Honda. I guess they're going after the graduates of the scooter boom .... but from what I can tell, there are relatively few graduates. I don't think this is a rich market.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

...I would have thought that Yamaha's lackluster experience with the AE would have put the kibosh on development of a similar model by Honda.

I think it's a 'stretch' to call Honda's twin-clutch transmission similar to Yamaha's clutch-lever-less AE.

(like comparing Honda's late '70s torque-converter models to anything current...)

 

[El Toro]

...I would have thought that Yamaha's lackluster experience with the AE would have put the kibosh on development of a similar model by Honda.

I think it's a 'stretch' to call Honda's twin-clutch transmission similar to Yamaha's clutch-lever-less AE.

(like comparing Honda's late '70s torque-converter models to anything current...)

I don't.

The goals of all such systems are to allow the rider to avoid either clutching, shifting, or both. The specific methods chosen are irrelevant to most of the end users who are just looking for the joy of riding simplicity (which is different from mechanical simplicity).

FWIW, the AE is no longer listed on Yamaha's US web site.

As Yamaha has bailed on the idea of providing clutchless scooting outside of their official scooter domain, Honda now has two models that involve some sort of shift assist, the DN-01 and the new VFR1200. I would predict that neither will be very successful in the US market. I think Honda has come a day late and a dollar short once again. The people who want clutchless shifting, or automatic shifting, for the most part, do not want to live at the high end of the cost spectrum. They tend to like to buy cheap gas, run with car tires, and debate such questions as "which oil is best for my scoot, is ethanol your friend, and how tall can your windshield be before its too tall?"

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

...I would have thought that Yamaha's lackluster experience with the AE would have put the kibosh on development of a similar model by Honda.

I think it's a 'stretch' to call Honda's twin-clutch transmission similar to Yamaha's clutch-lever-less AE.

(like comparing Honda's late '70s torque-converter models to anything current...)

I don't.

The goals of all such systems are to allow the rider to avoid either clutching, shifting, or both. The specific methods chosen are irrelevant to most of the end users who are just looking for the joy of riding simplicity (which is different from mechanical simplicity).

I think you're missing the point entirely? "Trigger" shifting and dual-clutch transmissions are performance enhancements -- they allow easier, faster, shifting for acceleration and performance-type riding/driving. (they're the current 'darling' of the performance auto set)

"CVTs" offer what you're describing.

FWIW, the AE is no longer listed on Yamaha's US web site.

Maybe all of America 'missed the point' with "trigger" shifting?

...The people who want clutchless shifting, or automatic shifting, for the most part, ...tend to like to buy cheap gas, run with car tires, and debate such questions as "which oil is best for my scoot, is ethanol your friend, and how tall can your windshield be before its too tall?"

Lovely...

 

[AZrider]

Yesterday I stopped by my local bike dealer. There was one lone silver FJR on the floor and I commented to the owner and salesman that I thought the FJR was Yamaha's best kept secret. I bought my 2007 from them new and after 21,000 miles I have little to complain about, the FJR does everything I want extremely well and the things that bother me are only minor annoyances in the bigger scheme of life. Because of where I live this dealership sells a lot of cruisers like the Victory and only few sportbikes or sport tourers. They asked me if I had seen or ridden the new VFR-1200 and I told them I hadn't. They sold one three months before. About that time the owner of the VFR rode in (no joke) and after my commenting how nice it looked he tossed me the key and told me to take it out and have some fun. The bike weighs in close to the FJR but feels lighter due to the lower seating position. I have a 29 inch inseam and my feet were on the ground. The VFR-1200 is definitely a different bike. I don't know what kind of niche it fits into, maybe a "day" sport tourer. It is definitely more sport than tourer. The V4 has that torque-ie feel to it in the lower revs although the FJR has more grunt starting off in first gear. I stalled the VFR once where given the same circumstance I think my FJR would not have. The V4 engine is smooth and from the roll in mid revs accelerates quickly. It has a similar syncopated firing order/exhaust sound like the R1. The bike handles nice and I didn't find any bad habits except that the throttle had a dead spot in it around 3500-4000RPM and as was commented. it's a bit snatchy like the stock FJR was before the spring release etc. It wraps up quickly on the tach and brakes were more than adequate. I thought the bike was excellent but the bottom line was that there wasn't anything in it that I didn't have in my FJR. On the way home from the dealer the sun set and it got a little chilly (for Arizona) and I raised the windshield on the FJR just a bit. Now that's what I'm talking about I thought to myself. VFR, nice bike but not enough to move me off my FJR.