Water pump leaking

[griff]

I noticed some coolant on the right exhaust side under the water pump on the way back from NAFO. Upon further inspection at home, I can see coolant seeping out of weep hole on the back side of the water pump. The parts schematic shows a mechanical water seal which is probably leaking. Anyone ever repaired a water pump? In addition to the water seal, there are two oil seals and several bearings, plus o rings. I'll probably replace all the seals and o rings since I'm in there, but don't know about the bearings. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[mdisher]

I'm thinking you should take a lot of pictures when you do this so it will be easier for me when the time comes.

 

[griff]

I'm thinking you should take a lot of pictures when you do this so it will be easier for me when the time comes.

Hey, no problem. Probably would be a tutorial on how NOT to do it.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Is there no one out there in FJR land that has ever done this work?? :blink:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I noticed some coolant on the right exhaust side under the water pump on the way back from NAFO. Upon further inspection at home, I can see coolant seeping out of weep hole on the back side of the water pump. The parts schematic shows a mechanical water seal which is probably leaking. Anyone ever repaired a water pump? In addition to the water seal, there are two oil seals and several bearings, plus o rings. I'll probably replace all the seals and o rings since I'm in there, but don't know about the bearings. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

'wheatonFJR': Is there no one out there in FJR land that has ever done this work??

Well, yes -- although I haven't replaced/repaired a water pump on an FJR -- it is a fairly popular/standard design. And, I have done others (usually, on the insistance of the owners -- not, my recommendation).

The seal is a mechanical face seal (ceramic) and doesn't positively seal -- that's why the weep hole is there.

I'd recommend watching the fluid loss and making a determination of just how serious an issue it is. Often, it's negligable. If you must repair/replace the water pump?, I'd look for a pump assembly (whole pump) -- although it certainly can be successfully repaired/rebuilt.

No guarantee it won't let fluid out the weep hole again in the future, tho....

 

[r1byker]

I'd recommend watching the fluid loss and making a determination of just how serious an issue it is. Often, it's negligable. If you must repair/replace the water pump?, I'd look for a pump assembly (whole pump) -- although it certainly can be successfully repaired/rebuilt.

No guarantee it won't let fluid out the weep hole again in the future, tho....

So I would be worried that it would only get worse over time and that I would have to fix it at a time not of my choosing, or leave me stranded. With this type of seal, are you saying it'll give you plenty of warning?

 

[Wicked Webby]

Not to mention, anti-freeze is pretty slick when it lets loose all over the road or onto your back tire .

WW

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

So I would be worried that it would only get worse over time and that I would have to fix it at a time not of my choosing, or leave me stranded. With this type of seal, are you saying it'll give you plenty of warning?

The few I've replaced (on other bikes) weren't worn-out or broken, or damaged in any way I could see. The spring might've been a little weaker than new (don't know?) or, there might've been something (substance?, foreign object?) on the seal face -- but, the old one didn't look much different than the new one. They're widely used in the automotive industry and (I think?) are normally quite long-lived and reliable (other than a little weep, once-in-awhile).

I don't consider leaking a little coolant from the weep hole, an issue. Just as much of an issue (IMO) is the potential failure of a coolant pipe "O" ring or the on-going corrosion at the coolant pipe fittings.

In some applications, a suitable puller is needed for removal/installation of the face seal -- don't know about FJR.

 

[griff]

So I would be worried that it would only get worse over time and that I would have to fix it at a time not of my choosing, or leave me stranded. With this type of seal, are you saying it'll give you plenty of warning?

The few I've replaced (on other bikes) weren't worn-out or broken, or damaged in any way I could see. The spring might've been a little weaker than new (don't know?) or, there might've been something (substance?, foreign object?) on the seal face -- but, the old one didn't look much different than the new one. They're widely used in the automotive industry and (I think?) are normally quite long-lived and reliable (other than a little weep, once-in-awhile).

I don't consider leaking a little coolant from the weep hole, an issue. Just as much of an issue (IMO) is the potential failure of a coolant pipe "O" ring or the on-going corrosion at the coolant pipe fittings.

In some applications, a suitable puller is needed for removal/installation of the face seal -- don't know about FJR.

Charis - Thanks for the input. Looking at the shop manual, it's pretty easy to get the seal out - no puller required. I am going to order the water seal, oil seal and o rings and watch the leakage. When I first noticed the leakage on the way back from NAFO, my overflow reservoir was pretty empty (don't know if this was because of coolant loss). I filled it up and rode 500 miles home. After checking at home, there was minimal loss from the reservoir and no evidence of leaking from the water pump onto the pipes. I'll just watch it for now. This happened once before on my 75 Goldwing. It leaked once and never did it again.

 

[conwest]

Griff...the mechanical seal is a bastard to remove....I pulled the waterpump from my `07 this spring after warranty was over. The damn thing started to weep after it`s first birthday and if there is anything I hate...it`s a coolant leak! Anyways, I kept all the other stuff except for O rings and such...but the seal was a real prick to remove...much leveraging required, not to mention, no kids around within 100 ft of the blue zone. All is well now....7,000 kms later and not a drop has fallen onto the oxygen sensor connection. :angry:

 

[radman]

generally, on a design like this, the bearings would be fine. But those bearings have to come off before you get to the seal, and often a bad bearing is why the seal failed, so you're better off replacing them. Honestly, with the cost of a completely new impeller at about $52, which includes the parts 2 through 5, I'd start fresh with a complete unit.

 

[conwest]

Quote from Rad.: completely new impeller at about $52, which includes the parts 2 through 5, I'd start fresh with a complete unit." .......Ah...I dunno there radman....me thinks u are jumping to conclusions here. The mechanical seal is imbedded in the housing (1)....only the rubber damper and the rubber damper holder are recessed onto the base of the impeller shaft...getting a complete impeller unit that would solve the problem would be a dream come true...it`s just not assembled that way. The bearings (2) and oil seal (3) are below and well out of the way of the mechanical seal. U don`t have to remove those to get to the m. seal. If there is no oil getting past the oil seal and weeping out, it`s ok. An ole fashioned check of the bearing is an obvious step while your there anyways...it is true that the factory manual walks u thru steps of oil seal and bearing removal, but this is for a complete water pump disassembly. A parts fiche is no substitute for real knowledge. :glare:

 

[griff]

Quote from Rad.: completely new impeller at about $52, which includes the parts 2 through 5, I'd start fresh with a complete unit." .......Ah...I dunno there radman....me thinks u are jumping to conclusions here. The mechanical seal is imbedded in the housing (1)....only the rubber damper and the rubber damper holder are recessed onto the base of the impeller shaft...getting a complete impeller unit that would solve the problem would be a dream come true...it`s just not assembled that way. The bearings (2) and oil seal (3) are below and well out of the way of the mechanical seal. U don`t have to remove those to get to the m. seal. If there is no oil getting past the oil seal and weeping out, it`s ok. An ole fashioned check of the bearing is an obvious step while your there anyways...it is true that the factory manual walks u thru steps of oil seal and bearing removal, but this is for a complete water pump disassembly. A parts fiche is no substitute for real knowledge. :glare:

Conwest: I noted in the shop manual they talk about a rubber damper and rubber damper holder on the impeller this is recommended to replace. However, the parts fiche doens't show these two parts. Are they part of the impeller. Did you replace these parts?

 

[radman]

.......Ah...I dunno there radman....me thinks u are jumping to conclusions here. The mechanical seal is imbedded in the housing (1)....only the rubber damper and the rubber damper holder are recessed onto the base of the impeller shaft...getting a complete impeller unit that would solve the problem would be a dream come true...it`s just not assembled that way. The bearings (2) and oil seal (3) are below and well out of the way of the mechanical seal. U don`t have to remove those to get to the m. seal. If there is no oil getting past the oil seal and weeping out, it`s ok. An ole fashioned check of the bearing is an obvious step while your there anyways...it is true that the factory manual walks u thru steps of oil seal and bearing removal, but this is for a complete water pump disassembly. A parts fiche is no substitute for real knowledge. :glare:

I had a real pissy reply for this, but the kinder, gentler me will let "shove it" suffice. The last line and the :glare: was a nice touch though. For what it's worth, bad bearings are often a cause for premature seal failure-read that in some parts book somewhere..........

 

[big ears]

That is true in auto water pumps. When bearings get bad the shaft will move and wallow out the seal.

 

[v65]

Ah...I dunno there radman....since I have some knowledge on the subject, and am obviously oblivious to your background in things mechanical, I will present my opinion in the most obnoxious way possible in the hope of making a sincere ass of myself. How did I do? :blush:

Rad, no need to be shy, it's Friday.

 

[conwest]

Quote from Rad.: completely new impeller at about $52, which includes the parts 2 through 5, I'd start fresh with a complete unit." .......Ah...I dunno there radman....me thinks u are jumping to conclusions here. The mechanical seal is imbedded in the housing (1)....only the rubber damper and the rubber damper holder are recessed onto the base of the impeller shaft...getting a complete impeller unit that would solve the problem would be a dream come true...it`s just not assembled that way. The bearings (2) and oil seal (3) are below and well out of the way of the mechanical seal. U don`t have to remove those to get to the m. seal. If there is no oil getting past the oil seal and weeping out, it`s ok. An ole fashioned check of the bearing is an obvious step while your there anyways...it is true that the factory manual walks u thru steps of oil seal and bearing removal, but this is for a complete water pump disassembly. A parts fiche is no substitute for real knowledge. :glare:

Conwest: I noted in the shop manual they talk about a rubber damper and rubber damper holder on the impeller this is recommended to replace. However, the parts fiche doens't show these two parts. Are they part of the impeller. Did you replace these parts?

............Griff, the rubber damper and it`s holder are actually the mating components of/for the mech. seal....they are all shipped together (3 pieces) when u order the mech. seal... at least, that is what ocurred in my case. Yes, u definitely replace the mech. seal, rubber damper and rubber damper holder all at the same time, because they work as one unit!

 

[griff]

............Griff, the rubber damper and it`s holder are actually the mating components of/for the mech. seal....they are all shipped together (3 pieces) when u order the mech. seal... at least, that is what ocurred in my case. Yes, u definitely replace the mech. seal, rubber damper and rubber damper holder all at the same time, because they work as one unit!

Gotcha - I couldn't figure out how you could order a new seal but not the surface it seals to. Rode the bike from Chicago to Detroit about 300 miles at 80 MPH today and it dribbled a few drops from the water pump. By the time I get all the parts to fix it, it probably won't be leaking at all!!

 

[griff]

For what it's worth, bad bearings are often a cause for premature seal failure-read that in some parts book somewhere..........

Rad - I'll take a close look at the bearings. I noted in the shop manul the bearings are not an automatic replacement item when replacing seals, but I hear what you're saying. Since I'm in there anyhow, new bearings might be a good thing.