Weird 'hiccup'

[cometman]

It is good to be persistent. Congrats on proving there was something wrong.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

UPDATEWell, after letting it get worse little by little, enough where I was confident that they would be able to reproduce it on their own,

later I get a call, and they find a tiny tension spring in the middle of the trans with a kink in it.

Hmmmm...?

Excuse me for being dubious -- but, I know what's in there and what causes bikes to jump out of 2nd.

Good luck -- be sure to test it thoroughly when you get it back (WFO acceleration in 2nd...).

 

[bramfrank]

Yep it's the gear. It was fine all day today, but just now pulling in the neighborhood - I rounded a corner, shifted into 2nd very gently, was just rolling on the throttle maybe 10%...CLINK sounded and felt like a skipped tooth. Metal sound, hard, loud, sudden. She's going in ASAP and the YES had BETTER cover it because this ***** has been babied, I haven't mistreated the transmission for a fraction of a second.

Don't take this the wrong way, but the terms 'WOT' and 'babied' are pretty much mutually exclusive.

The condition doesn't require that you jam things - just one missed 1-2 shift and that's the start of it.

But the previous poster said it right - get out there are hammer it to see if the problem's been resolved. I have my doubts.

 

[Kaelaria]

And of course now I get a call that the spring is back ordered, it'll be at least another week.

Ya know having to drive a cage for a month REALLY sucks.

UPDATEWell, after letting it get worse little by little, enough where I was confident that they would be able to reproduce it on their own,

later I get a call, and they find a tiny tension spring in the middle of the trans with a kink in it.

Hmmmm...?

Excuse me for being dubious -- but, I know what's in there and what causes bikes to jump out of 2nd.

Good luck -- be sure to test it thoroughly when you get it back (WFO acceleration in 2nd...).

No one said anything about jumping out of gear. It's never done that and has always shifted fine.

 

[Kaelaria]

Yep it's the gear. It was fine all day today, but just now pulling in the neighborhood - I rounded a corner, shifted into 2nd very gently, was just rolling on the throttle maybe 10%...CLINK sounded and felt like a skipped tooth. Metal sound, hard, loud, sudden. She's going in ASAP and the YES had BETTER cover it because this ***** has been babied, I haven't mistreated the transmission for a fraction of a second.

Don't take this the wrong way, but the terms 'WOT' and 'babied' are pretty much mutually exclusive.

The condition doesn't require that you jam things - just one missed 1-2 shift and that's the start of it.

But the previous poster said it right - get out there are hammer it to see if the problem's been resolved. I have my doubts.

Not at all. WOT is a normal operating condition. How you get there however may or may not be. I don't whip it through the gears, take it to the track, or am lucky enough to have good riding roads to put it near the limits. In 1st and 2nd I can go WOT sometimes, that's about it. But it's always with normal smooth shifts, and yes, babied.

I have never missed a shift (12k miles knock on wood).

Of course I will try and reproduce it (which is easy) as soon as I get it back.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

No one said anything about jumping out of gear. It's never done that and has always shifted fine.

Today the bike started doing a weird little hiccup kind of thing, only when going WOT through 2nd gear. Somewhere around 7k, it felt like a little misfire - a realy fast jerk, like I ran over a sheet of paper or something and the wheel slipped a tiny bit. I thought it was a fluke until I could repeat it every few tries. It doesn't feel like a misfire, there's no sound of one, no engine change or anything felt like that. It almost feels like a gear jumping a tooth kind of thing, but it SO quick and relatively slight. It's just like a little blip of power out then back in as it sweeps though.
I could not get it to do it under 1st or third, making me think it's related to torque output somewhere.

Any clues? I'm going to do a oil/rear change tomorrow and check the splines. It has 10k miles.

That's what that ^^^^ is : You've just described a classic case of 'jumping out of 2nd gear' (for lack of better terminology).

Motorcycles (some..?) have been doing this for as far back as I can remember. The shift-fork is in the position for 2nd gear -- but, the dogs on the sliding gear and its mating gear aren't good enough to hold (the gear dogs slip). Often, the fault began with a shift-fork that (for some reason?) fails to engage the dogs enough; then progresses through slipping dogs and rounded dog edges (corners); eventually, it'll only stay in 2nd during very light acceleration (or, no acceleration...).

Good luck.

 

[Kaelaria]

I call jumping out of gear - actually going out of gear - to another one or neutral. Which it has never done.

They examined the dogs and fork and said all were perfect.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Well, good -- congratulations....You're good to go...!

 

[Kaelaria]

Well **** on me for trusting a dealer.

I went to pick it up just now, assured it was 100% right.

I pull out of the drive on to the main road - not only is the tranny the same, did it 100 feet away from the drive - but now the whole damn thing shakes like a POS harley!!!

I turn around at the first light, it skips again - turn around at the first uturn spot, skips again.

I go back to the manager, he thinks I'm KIDDING when I say - you made it worse! He doesn't believe me, take it out for a spin behind the shop. Comes back, says 'It's 10x worse than it was this morning!'.

Yeah, like it magically changes sitting in the parking lot for 4 hours.

So now, who fing KNOWS when it'll be fixed! I feel sick to my stomach - why does a dealership experience usually have to mean a NIGHTMARE?! Now I'm not only concerned about the tranny, but that my AWESOME bike will never be the same again because of incompetent mechanics?

 

[ionbeam]

Well **** on me for trusting a dealer...not only is the tranny the same...but now the whole damn thing shakes like a POS harley!!!

Can't help much with your tranny problem. As every has been saying, the problem will almost certainly turn out to be related to shift forks, gears & dogs.

If they pulled your engine and flipped it upside down to work on it, your rear engine balancer assembly is probably set wrong. The balancer 'adjustment screw' is tempting to use to adjust the balance but alas, all it does is adjust gear lash. The engine balancer can only be mechanically balanced by opening up a rear cover and physically moving parts into alignment. Another possibility is that they didn't follow the FSM sequence for torquing the engine and frame bolts. If it runs like a paint shaker I vote for the balancer. BTDT.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Well **** on me for trusting a dealer.I went to pick it up just now, assured it was 100% right.

I turn around at the first light, it skips again - turn around at the first uturn spot, skips again.

So now, who fing KNOWS when it'll be fixed! I feel sick to my stomach - why does a dealership experience usually have to mean a NIGHTMARE?! Now I'm not only concerned about the tranny, but that my AWESOME bike will never be the same again because of incompetent mechanics?

A competent mechanic can make it all better. ("it's not rocket-science...")

...short of having me come in and sign a waiver in the case they don't find anything, they agree to tear it down. Another week later I get a call,

Just curious -- are you paying the bill or is Yamaha? Extended warranty or good-will (Yamaha policy)?

Or:

As soon as I saw the thread title, I knew what this post was going to be about.That's how it starts. ... to lose second gear. I've taken my 06A to the local yammie dealer 3 times for this problem. Each time they've given it back saying there's nothing wrong. Yamaha says this is not a design defect, but have nonetheless redesigned the dog arrangement in the transmission's gear set, starting in 08.

Honda? Give me just one bike to love, and I'll come back...I love you, man.

Or (a little thread-shift...):

So far though, I am enjoying my new 1300 GT! The FJR was an AWESOME bike, too, until I started having problems!

BMW K1300GT -- yea baby...!! :huh:

 

[Kaelaria]

I suggested the balancer to the manager. I have extensive knowledge of the engine, having worked for a large PWC engine remanufacturer for many years. Never opened a motorcycle tranny though - can't be all that intricate!

This is all under YES.

 

[ionbeam]

...Never opened a motorcycle tranny though - can't be all that intricate!
This is all under YES.

Relevant history, the beginning .

Relevant history, the final solution .

 

[Kaelaria]

I wish I could take pictures of mine to REALLY know what it looks like. Something doesn't make any sense, them telling me everything looked fine inside.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Something doesn't make any sense, them telling me everything looked fine inside.

I'm not sure your dealer will get paid from Yamaha under the Y.E.S. extended warranty -- unless there was a bad part replaced? Even if "everything looked fine inside" -- I think they'd need to order and replace (unusually) worn or broken parts to satisfy a warranty claim? (was it the "tiny tension spring" that they warranteed? -- I don't think that'll fly with Yamaha?)

Did you sign a work-order? Did you get a receipt/paper-work for the work performed?

 

[Kaelaria]

Yep, the $1.98 spring was the only part replaced, part # 5JW-18144-00-00 Hanger,Spring along with a cover gasket and $338 in labor and $20 in shop supplies.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Yep, the $1.98 spring was the only part replaced, part # 5JW-18144-00-00 Hanger,Spring along with a cover gasket and $338 in labor and $20 in shop supplies.

Well, that was nice -- but, not what's involved when a motorcycle transmission is skipping in 2nd gear. That's part of the gear-selection mechanism and is, basically, outside the transmission. (they weren't in your transmission...)

There are links (provided above) to threads about this -- much discussion previously -- like this:

I'm beginning to see a trend here as well. Beaverton Honda Yamaha had no real interest in helping me at all. The service guy said I had to make a $2700 commitment for repairs before he would pursue anything with Yamaha, and then, he said they'd only take care of the parts leaving me a $2000 repair bill.

 

[bramfrank]

On the other hand, now you have a reproduceable problem where you had (from the dealer's perspective) no problem at all - and it went from one situation to the other while under the dealer's watch.

Ought to be interesting.

 

[mscott]

Yep, the $1.98 spring was the only part replaced, part # 5JW-18144-00-00 Hanger,Spring along with a cover gasket and $338 in labor and $20 in shop supplies.

Well, that was nice -- but, not what's involved when a motorcycle transmission is skipping in 2nd gear. That's part of the gear-selection mechanism and is, basically, outside the transmission. (they weren't in your transmission...)There are links (provided above) to threads about this -- much discussion previously -- like this:

I'm beginning to see a trend here as well. Beaverton Honda Yamaha had no real interest in helping me at all. The service guy said I had to make a $2700 commitment for repairs before he would pursue anything with Yamaha, and then, he said they'd only take care of the parts leaving me a $2000 repair bill.

Bent shift fork(caused by the very first "jump" out of gear or gear slip) and/or worn engagement dogs(caused by the fact that it actually did jump out of gear) are most often what cause a "skip" in linear pulling in 2nd gear. Yamaha is notorious for blaming the rider, and I mean A LOT OF RIDERS! The truth is the cast gears need to be machine "back cut" about 1 degree on the engagement dogs and slots. Particularly on 2nd dogs and 6th gear slots(on 6 speeds). Point is...Yamaha knows this and is bullshitting you and everybody else into thinking it's operator error that caused it initially.

I rode Suzuki and Kawasaki for years and NEVER had a problem with 2nd gear. Have had 3 of 5 Yamaha's loose 2nd gear. And it all started with the "what was that?".....

 

[Kaelaria]

Got yet another call today. They said they still couldn't find any parts broken, and it still runs poorly. I immediately asked if it was still open so I could stop in and look for myself. A very hasty answer, no, it's already back together. Sure.

They then said they have a Yamaha rep coming in possibly on Monday, to look for himself. I immediately asked to be notified when he was there so I could be there as well. At this point my trust is shot.