dcarver
Well-known member
I agree. And we had. But I wasn't listening. That's the problem with being an alligator station, all mouth and no ears. Toe had said he might cut north on the road. That's when I should have made a mental note as to exactly where that road was, so I could be prepared for the separation. I take full responsibility for this - a lesson learned.Seems the problem was a lack of communication, I always ask my ride'n partner where our next stop will be.
Fully agree. And when I'm point, I always frequently check mirrors to count lights, check pack status. That's what was so weird about this situation - I had *just* seen Toe and flash, he's gone. I was riding Wabs, only a 650, so Toe had been gracious enough to ride wingman, so as to not leave me behind. No way can a dl650 keep up with an FJR.Interesting questions. I guess for me, when I'm riding with someone(s) else, I stay within visual of the people (almost) at all times. If I'm leading and they lag to sightsee, I slowdown too. If they are leading and get stay up with them so long as I'm not over my head. So, since I am constandtly taking or giving queues with them, I would almost immediately notice their absence if I didn't also see them turn.
In my mind that's what it means to ride "with" someone else. If you want to flex your inner squid, well I would generally do that when I am by myself and therefore do not have to worry about endangering anyone else. Since a large percentage of my riding time is spent by myself, where I can decide whether to take it easy and jam on the tunes or wick it up a bit for a little adrenaline, I really don't think this is such a big imposition.
I don't think there was time for Toe to ride along side to visually clue the clueless leader (me). Me thinks he saw the exit, said, hey that's the one, flashed his lights and took it. If I were Toe I'd be thinking 'he knows I'm taking this road, we talked about it, and here it is.' Me, on the other hand, I'm in the 'get to the barn mode'. I'm pushing too hard. I don't feel good. I'm realizing I dawdled too long during day light hours and now I'm soon to be a night rider. Mi culpa, not Toe's fault on this one...IMO Toe should of came along side you and let you know through signals he was pulling off. This way the communication chain would of been complete, you and he could of went on your merry ways without incident.
As is stated in TOPGUN, "NEVER EVER LEAVE YOUR WINGMAN". Unless of course you let him know. Flashing your lights is not letting someone know you are peeling off, who knows where your brain could of been when he did that.
Good of you to exhaust your resources to locate your buddy and most excellent of him to call when he got home to let you know he was safe.
As someone said, we normally talk and let people know we are peeling off here! Communication is always key.
The lesson learned from your post is this - even when riding with those you've ridden with before, establish the ground rules, make sure both are clear on the understanding. Of course, as I said before, Toe did say he was taking that route. I just did not pay attention.When I ride with someone for the first time I usually do a short run through of ridingrulescourtesies. Often the new riding partner(s) say WTF is up with that :lol: One of them is the courtesy of separation. When following, I will always try to stay in sight and only bunch up to keep traffic lights and turning traffic from getting between us. When leading I always try to keep my fellow co-rider in sight, I check often. I let them know that if they loose sight of me to pull over and stop, I will turn around and go back as soon as I notice they are missing. Don't try to find me, I will find you because I know the route. If I pass through a light and you don't make it, I will pull over and wait. If a car or cars get in between us I will pull over when convenient and group up again. If it is a significant trip I will have some preplanned meeting places or preset phone call times so it doesn't mater when, where or how we got separated.
When riding as a group it is ok to spread out and follow a 3 second or 5 second spacing on the open road. When sport riding, ride your ride and I will see you at our preset meeting location. When riding in traffic or areas with traffic control, please keep the grouping closed up; close but safe. Again, the traffic light and interleaved car courtesy applies, I will pull over and wait.
I've never had a problem with these guidelines, never lost a rider and have never been separated. The guidelines may change for other areas of the country, riding between Palm Springs and Las Vagas is sure different than the little warren of roads through the mountains of Vermont.
Now there's an idea! :rofl:The best solution I have found is to tie all riders together with monofilent fishing line. The monofilent line has some "give" in case one of the riders falls behind, and it will break if someone goes over a cliff and so won't pull everone else down the cliff. And when the line breaks, this serves as immediate notice that someone has left the group.What do you say? What would you do?
Well said, very nice summary.OK, now my thoughts on the subject (not just on cell phone battery discharge).
I believe in the "never leave your wing man" thing. Maybe it's from scuba diving years ago, or from years of ski mountaineering in the back country. If you're riding together, unless it's stated otherwise to begin with, you're the lifeline for the other rider if anything bad should happen.
If I'm leading, I'm regularly looking in my mirrors and counting headlights. I can't always be sure everyone knows the route, so sometimes it's just the desire not to leave someone baffled and stranded at that signalized intersection we all made a left from. If that number drops below what we started with, I first slow down and give the missing headlights a chance to come into view. If they don't show up soon, I stop and wait. If the rider still doesn't show up, I go back and do exactly as you did, Don. In fact, that's exactly what happened when madmike2 did his KLR get-off into the guard rail post in Aug. '07. I was leading, Bluestreek was 2d, Mike was 3d . . . until he stopped showing up in my mirrors. We slowed, stopped and then went back to find the worst -- the very thing you don't want to find as you hope he just stopped to take pics somewhere. If I'm leading and someone's headlights disappear, the first thing I'm doing is trying to recall exactly where I last saw them, because it's between THAT point and where I stopped that they will be found if the worst - a crash - occurred.
If I'm sweep, and someone drops off in front of me, I pull up and check with him that everything is ok before going on. Beyond that, from the back of the pack, I try to be aware that the leader may be counting headlights, and I try not to be the rider who dawdles so long somewhere that I end up coming upon the whole pack stopped or coming back to find me. If I got lost or stuck in traffic, however, I appreciate them doing that. I recall (on a Yosemite trip in June '07) when FJRob and the cell phone lady were kind enough to wait for me and my GF getting under way after lunch on the way down -- I didn't know the route from there and would've lost the pack if Rob and Terri hadn't waited just ahead.
I don't ever want to have someone ruin their own ride having to watch out for me, nor am I necessarily going to ride like an old lady when I lead. If you wanna rip the twisties or take the engine to redline, do it. But let the rest of us catch up a reasonable distance ahead before you dash off again. I'm always reminded of how lucky OM was to have flown his first FJR off a steep embankment in that remote area and have bokerfork (that was who it was?) close enough in front to have immediately noticed his disappearance and gone back to find him. Given the road he was on and the terrain, he could have been there for days without being found. That kind of assistance is especially important on a trip a long way from home where maybe none of you has ever even ridden the road before. If someone is missing, you need to have the best possible intelligence on the area in which to look (and within a reasonable time). It could be fatal if a crashed rider isn't found soon. I think we all remember last summer's Wing rider that crashed on 93 in Idaho near Salmon and his body and bike weren't found for over a week. He was alone, and that's one of the risks of riding alone. But if we ride together, I assume that part of the reason for that is to minimize that risk. That isn't accomplished if you simply dash off ahead and never look back until you get to the motel.
Don, you did what you could about a situation created by less than perfect communication, but we all do that on occasion and trying to learn from it is the only intelligent response. I think your suggestions were as good a lesson as could be taken from it. You're thinking and concerned, and that's the kind of riding partner I like to ride with. Good on ya for that, and for such a good discussion topic.