What's in Yamaha's MSRP?

[YooperDick]

I just visited a dealer for Brand X and noticed on the sticker was the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Then, added on, was 'plus shipping and setup charges' which were not itemized.

What does Yamaha include in their MSRP? Is the freight included and equalized, e.g., a standard amount added on to every unit by Yamaha so no dealer has a geographic selling advantage? What about setup?

Thanks for all knowledgeable responses.

 

[Ignacio]

What does Yamaha include in their MSRP?

They do specifically include delivery and setup in the MSRP. The dealer's trying to play games.

 

[twowheelnut]

They do specifically include delivery and setup in the MSRP. The dealer's trying to play games.

Not listed as such on the website. Got linkage? Honestly, I've never seen delivery and setup bundled in the MSRP at any dealer.

 

[Ignacio]

They do specifically include delivery and setup in the MSRP. The dealer's trying to play games.

Not listed as such on the website. Got linkage? Honestly, I've never seen delivery and setup bundled in the MSRP at any dealer.

From the Oracle-of-Warchild, the dealer I purchased, and another dealer I almost bought one at. However, you all get ass-raped in the land of fruits and nuts....so who knows.

And if a dealer tried....I'd be D+H'ing it.

 

[painman]

My CA dealer tried to ad the freight and set-up charges in the price but we agreed to the MSRP price without the extra charges and I made him put it in writing as then as we know in 06 there was a 6 month waiting period. I could have gotten a somewhat better deal in CA if I was willing to travel and I was not. I've bought other brands as well and the freight and set-up charges were never included in the MSRP. Hope this helped. PM. <>< I

 

[Bounce]

iirc the talk back with the first and second waves of PdPs was that an allowance was inlcuded to cover delivery and setup. however some shops have contracted out these functions[1] at a rate higher than the allocation. imho that's just piss poor business practice and they should eat the difference or negotiate a better contract so that the Yamaha allocation covers their costs. in other cases some dealers simply want to gouge the uneducated and "double tap" that fee when no challenged.

[1] or do them in-house inefficiently or via shop rates that are higher than yamaha's allowance covers.

bottom line is that Yamaha includes a fee in the MSRP that "should" cover their costs. in some cases it does, in other cases it doesn't, in still other cases it does by the dealer is jacking with their customer. in all cases go in as an educated consumer and negotiate with the knowledge that yamaha does give them an allocation, it is more than sufficient, AND there is still about a $1500 to $2500 profit over dealer cost (even when the delivery allocation set aside). All of this can be negotiated downward if you're really dispasionate and don't fall in love with that lump of steel, aluminum, and plastic before owning it.

the inclusion of a standard setup and delivery fee in yamaha's dealer cost was something we learned from yamaha insiders and D&H Cycles during that first wave.

 

[burnergold2B]

A friend owns a dealership. He is reimbursed by corporate for all set-up charges he incurs. There is of course a flat book rate for said set-ups but occassionaly he'll get the exceptions to the rule where additional work is required by his wrenches as result of poor assembly/shipment, etc...When he actually gets that payment from corporate is another matter. That being said...He will actually go the extra mile in set-up to grease bearings that he knows are *almost* always shipped nearly dry from Japan, and take care of other little niggly bits. (We joke about Japan's grease market and it's shortage.)

MSRP varies from website, to magazine, to dealerships. There is soooo much variance there, at times, that it's definitely a MASSIVE void of "buyer beware".

 

[twowheelnut]

That's all hearsay, folks. Show me some proof (sorry Matt, just because you used the 'because Dale said so' tag, that still won't cut it. No offense or nuttin'. ). Freight is always a separate line item on cars, so why should bikes be different? I'm not saying that these points can't be negotiated out, as they can and most often are, but I've run through a boat load of sites this am and none say "MSRP $xxxxx.xx Including Freight and Set-up".

And, bounce, you are correct on the sub-out set-ups. That's exactly what my shop did until they moved into a larger facility. The simply had no room to do it in the old joint.

 

[Herkypilot]

You know, it seems to me if Yamie wanted to ride heard over their dealerships, they wouldn't allow a double freight/setup charge to take place. Their name is on it, you'd think they'ed protect it from out right fraud by dealers calling it freight/setup on their sales documents as a seperate line item. Sort of sounds like a classic "Class-action" law suit to me. Any lawyers out there want to jump on this?

Herkypilot

 

[twowheelnut]

You know, it seems to me if Yamie wanted to ride heard over their dealerships, they wouldn't allow a double freight/setup charge to take place. Their name is on it, you'd think they'ed protect it from out right fraud by dealers calling it freight/setup on their sales documents as a seperate line item. Sort of sounds like a classic "Class-action" law suit to me. Any lawyers out there want to jump on this?
Herkypilot

Where are you getting your information that "double freight/setup charge" is taking place? Show me where is specifically states that MSRP includes freight and set-up. Enjoy your law suit. You'll lose, by the way.

 

[markjenn]

I've studied this a bit over the years.

AFAIK (and I've looked extensively) no Japanese mfg today has a stated policy of whether MSRP includes F&S. Honda did have a stated policy back in the 70's that MSRP included F&S, but it has been withdrawn. Currently, there is no hard-core definition of what MSRP is.

Mfg's do generally provide a "freight and setup allowance" in their dealer wholesale pricing, but it is much less than most dealers attempt to charge. I view this as something between the mfg and dealer, not a consumer charge.

With the exception of BMW, no mfg adds a standard "destination charge" to the MSRP price of a motorcycle. BMW does add one but they are careful to call it a "standard destination" charge rather than a freight and setup charge so that dealers can attempt to add further F&S if they want.

Bottom line is that dealers are free to add any charge they like and they use consumer confusion to their advantage. For most bikes, they'll add $400 or so in F&S and then allow the consumer to bargain some of that away to close the sale. Bottom line is that they'll get around MSRP.

And you're free to take your business elsewhere. It's all free market supply and demand. I personally don't care if the dealer adds F&S or not, as long as the final price before TTL is market-competitive. What is market competitive varies all over the map, generally the "hot" bikes can get away with extra F&S, the slow bikes have to give up the F&S charge and often can command discounts beyond.

Hope this helps,

- Mark

 

[bramfrank]

Here's the deal . . . I KNOW for a fact that Kawasaki includes freight and a setup allowance on their dealer costs. How? Because I paid the $10 for an invoice report before I bought mine.

I didn't bother for the FJR because I knew I was getting a deal (so to speak) but you can do the same and buy a current report - make sure you post it here if you do..

However I'd be surprised if Kawasaki pays and Yamaha doesn't.

As Mark said; It doesn't matter whether he charges or not and, THE OTD PRICE MEANS ZIPPO. What counts for comparison purposes is the amount of moolah you pay for the bike to the dealer, exclusive of title, tags and taxes. Only then is the number relevent for comparison purposes.

 

[Rob]

Mine added it but gave me so much more for my trade than it was worth and knocked enough off the Sticker Price to make me happy. That being said the only thing the sticker does is get in the door, They should put the total price an this stuff. They know how much they are going to charge you for shipping and set up, this doesn't ever change, and in all but certian areas they know what the Sales tax is going to be. Add it all up and put it on the sticker if you want to impress me.

What we should be pissed about is the Doc Fees. I mean come on $195 to press a button on a printer and have me sign?

 

[lotecredneck]

What does Yamaha include in their MSRP?

They do specifically include delivery and setup in the MSRP. The dealer's trying to play games.

Iggy,

I will beg to differ with you on that point. All of Yamaha's advertising when a suggested retail price is shown clearly has a note at the bottom that states "the retail price does not include shipping and setup charges". As the freight charges continue on an ever increasing upward trend, Yamaha would have to change the MSRP every time the freight changes.

Regards,

 

[phil]

Mine added it but gave me so much more for my trade than it was worth and knocked enough off the Sticker Price to make me happy. That being said the only thing the sticker does is get in the door, They should put the total price an this stuff. They know how much they are going to charge you for shipping and set up, this doesn't ever change, and in all but certian areas they know what the Sales tax is going to be. Add it all up and put it on the sticker if you want to impress me.What we should be pissed about is the Doc Fees. I mean come on $195 to press a button on a printer and have me sign?

Yeah, most of the dealers use the documentation fee thang. It pays to shop around. I phoned just about every Yamaha dealership in Oklahoma, getting quick-quotes on a new FJR this year. When I found one which had NO fees, and a competitive quote, I committed to buy right over the phone. Feels good when you don't get "buyers remorse."

 

[Bob Hughes]

They are trying to make as much profit as they can as you are trying to pay as little profit as you can. Adding shipping, handling, freight, set up, delivery, documentation fees, lot fees, etc. are just more ways of slipping some profit into the equation. Trust me some folks just pay it all. You of course just need to negotiate it out of there or off of the price. All that counts is "out the door". Have fun with it and call, visit or email a few dealers more than once and let them know how you are making out with their competitors price wise and one of them will buy your business.

 

[FlyingLow]

Look at the window sticker on a car. It will have base price, options and their associated costs, and..... destination and delivery costs. It all adds up to the MSRP.

Now look at the window sticker on a bike. It will have base price, options [usually none; ABS was not considered an option on Gen 1s, it was a separate model with its own separate price] and this will be the MSRP. The freight and set-up BS is an add-on after the MSRP, rather than integral like on a car's MSRP.

Whether the manufacturer takes into account D&D to the dealer when invoicing them isn't relevant to us at the retail consumer end of it.

We pay what we are willing to pay on this.

So your best bet, even during the PDP days, is to negotiate an out-the-door price and let the dealer fill in the blanks, rather than attempt to negotiate the price off the MSRP, then negotiate D&D. More of a hassle that way.

 

[bramfrank]

I will beg to differ with you on that point. All of Yamaha's advertising when a suggested retail price is shown clearly has a note at the bottom that states "the retail price does not include shipping and setup charges". As the freight charges continue on an ever increasing upward trend, Yamaha would have to change the MSRP every time the freight changes.

There's certainly an asterix on the price shown on Yamaha's web site . . . and the asterix points to text that clearly says the following:

"Prices & specifications subject to change without notice"

"Please read your Owner's Manual and all labels before operation"

Nothing about freight and assembly there . . . .

 

[Tbird]

All I know is that most dealers, at least initially when dickering price, add on to the MSRP.

I was shopping around for my 07' FJR this OCT, I called 15+ dealers from AZ to NM to TX

to OK to FL to OH and asked them what the price of their FJR would be. They'd offer a price.

When I'd ask about additional charges and they ALL added destination fees of $250 to $500

and set up fees that varied widely. In the end the final price, before TTL, was usually $1000

to $1500 over the original price given.

I ended up playing hardsell with my local dealer and got it with NO added fees, and well below MSRP.