What's the buzz, tell me what's a happening

[rushes]

Maybe try filling the handlebars with Dyna beads?

Compared to most of my bikes current and past, the FJR is smooth as silk. I love it.

I think Rushes might have something there, even though it was meant as a joke.A vibration damping material, other than metal, just might do the trick.

Maybe some silicon, injected into the handlebars, would work.

Actually, I remember some people used to fill the bars with lead shot.

 

[fjrchooser]

Likely damage the fuel tank paint if you tried that on a FJR.

 

[Fred W]

From Manic Salamander's Web site:

"About our precision, bike-specific mounting systemThis Smooth CityTM Bolt-On mount is a metal-on-metal mount with a 6mm bolt to hold it on. This mount cancels out the factory rubber-damping system by holding it in tension, so no routine vibration or movement is enough to engage the dampener, and it acts like metal-on-metal in all normal conditions."

My HVMP bar ends were supported only by the stock rubber mounts. I may try shimming them so they are held in tension against the end of the metal bar tube.

But then, a little further down the page...

"Fit remarks for 2014 YAMAHA FJR1300 :Pounders not for use with Heli Bars on this bikeUsers of Yamaha FJR1300's equipped with Heli-Bars report worsening of vibration with Pounders tm weights. If you have Heli Bars installed, choose the Classic size option."

Worth saying, I do have the Helibars riser bridge.

 

[Fred W]

So this afternoon I made a few experiments. I wish I had a better way to do it than just "by feel" but that is what I went with.

First thing I tried was my heavy 1 lb weights but put a couple of washers in there of the appropriate size so the weight was directly contacting the end of the handlebar (metal to metal) under lots of tension on both sides. It felt OK, but no big change. And when I squeezed the bars firmlywith my hands I get about the same amplitude of buzzing on each side. If anything, the throttle side may be slightly worse due to the throttle tube having a slight gap, and the contact with the bar being loose enough to rattle.

To get a side by side comparison I removed the right side 1 lb weight and put the stock weight there without the spacer washers, so it was floating on the rubber bar insert. Retesting I thought both sides were pretty much equal still.

Next I took the stock weight off the right side again, and put the pounder back on, but without the washers, and sure enough that did get slightly worse as I had originally noticed earlier. But the difference is pretty subtle and no matter what you seem to do with the bar ends the vibration in the bars persists

Next test was to get up to speed at 4k rpm and put the cruise control on, then feel along the bars from the very end all the way to where they mount on the HeliBar Bridge, and even felt the bridge itself. In the worst case 4k rpm, the ends of the bars and where the grips are are vibrating the most, progressively less vibe is felt as you move to the mounting point, and I feel no vibration at all at the bridge or triple clamp. None. Someone else should try that experiment, it's easy enough, and see if you get the same thing.

So what does all that mean? I'm not sure, but I think it means that the alloy bars themselves are the culprit, and are somehow resonating and amplifying the small amount of vibration input into what we feel in the grips. Well, everyone but Tom that is. And Brodie becaue he rides everywhere with "No hands, Ma!"

I am still going to experiment with some sort of isolation technique, maybe a thin layer of hard-ish rubber between the bars and bridge, and a couple of the same rubber washers under the bar mounting bolts. I fear the floppy bar syndrome that Wheaton warned of, but it' s just an experiment. If it feels crappy I won't be out much more than my own time.

The advantage of doing them where the bar mounts is I can do one side at a time and get a better sense if there was an improvement or change. One thing I have noticed about subjective analysis is that accuracy diminishes in direct proportion to the amount of time between samples.

 

[Pterodactyl]

"So what does all that mean? I'm not sure...."

You could get a very large federal grant with those findings. If you can somehow work in studying the sexual behavior of an obscure insect, then you have a gold mine on your hands.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Well, duh. Of course the max vibration occurs farthest from the support.

When you jump on a diving board, the board deflects the most at the ends, no matter where you jump on the board.

I appreciate your tenacity, and hope you find the solution to your problem. All I know is that with your 2005, this question was never raised...and not until you bought the red b!tch did this ever raise into the level of your consciousness.

Harley Davidson would be well suited to engage your talents on their QC team.

(Note: entire post in fun...If there is a problem, Fred will find it)

 

[08FJR4ME]

Sheeezzz, aren't there any bow hunters out there. See below. Cheap solution to the vibes.

Compound bow dampeners.

https://www.lancasterarchery.com/bow-accessories/stabilizers/vibration-reduction-dampers.html

https://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/bowjax-stabilizer-module-p-1884265.html?osCsid=e01aeeb049e0ce67b59a9d1db5482b53

https://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/bstinger-sport-hunter-stabilizer-weight-black-p-1876310.html

Years back I made my own bow dampener. If I recall it has a rubber end. Lead shot and oil filled. 3 separate compartments in one.

Dave

 

[bigjohnsd]

I have a 25# bag of #9 lead shot will donate to the cause.

Recipient to pay shipping but I think it will fit inside a Medium sized Priority Mail Box!

 

[Bill Lumberg]

I have hvmp pounders on helis and they are superb. But my bike has never had buzz, except for the day I picked it up from the showroom. That was only because I left with 20 lbs psi front and rear.

 

[Fred W]

Well, duh. Of course the max vibration occurs farthest from the support.
When you jump on a diving board, the board deflects the most at the ends, no matter where you jump on the board.

(Note: entire post in fun...If there is a problem, Fred will find it)

Your diving board is a bad example because the input comes somewhere past the support point, but I get what you are saying about relative motion on a semi-flexible lever. A diving board's action in an earthquake would be a better example, do you have much experience with that?

You missed the main point, which was that the vibration is not even detectable when feeling at the HeliBar bridge or triple clamp. I expected there to be a smaller amount of vibration there, but not that much smaller.

Harley Davidson would be well suited to engage your talents on their QC team

Are you sure they even have one?

I have a 25# bag of #9 lead shot will donate to the cause.
Recipient to pay shipping but I think it will fit inside a Medium sized Priority Mail Box!

I'm pretty sure I could find some shot around here too. Not sure it would be lead though. Didn't they outlaw that stuff?

I have hvmp pounders on helis and they are superb. But my bike has never had buzz, except for the day I picked it up from the showroom. That was only because I left with 20 lbs psi front and rear.

I'll bet you have it and are just ignoring it or are not sensitive to it. Every FJR I've ever ridden had it from 4000 rpm and up. On my old 2005 I was able to minimize it by fiddling with the throttle plates in the RDCUA TBS, but it never is completely eliminated, and that is not an option on the 3rd Gens. I also think it may have been less on the 1st Gen as the handlebar structure was somewhat different, but that is not in a back to back comparison.

Here's how to feel if you have vibration in the bars: Cruise along at ~3500 rpm in any gear. 2nd gear works as well as 5th. Grip the bars tightly (tighter than you normally would) and feel the lack of vibration in the grips. Now repeat the same test at 4k rpm.

The frequency of the vibration source should be pretty predictable as the two reciprocating masses of an inline 4 cylinder would make 2 impulses per rotation, so at 4000 rpm we should have 8000 impulses per minute or 133 impulses per second (Hz) vibration. However once that vibration gets into a resonant structure (like the handle bars) what that input translates to may be some harmonic of the 133Hz.. That's why an accelerometer would be nice to test with.

When we are looking for vibration in a building structure (at work) it is usually from an imbalanced electric motor on an air handler, where the motor is running at 3600 rpm and we get 1 impulse per rotation, so the vibration frequency in the building is either 60 Hz or the building's resonance to that at 30 Hz.

The idea of weighted bar ends is the same principle as the hunting bow dampers that Dave linked to. The problem is the bar ends do not seem to be structurally tuned to the vibration frequency at 4000 rpm well enough to dampen all of that vibration.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

You may well be right. What minimal bar vibes are there, at any rpm, tight grip or not, are further minimized by grip buddies, which may be a big factor. Bar buzz drives me nuts. I only ever had enough to feel when the bike was new and had virtually flat tires. Now that was some high frequency vibration. Nothing since....

Well- to be fair, when I pulled off the factory bar ends and just tried feather light aluminum cosmetic bar ends, I couldn't ride it to the store and back. Once it got past 3500rpm or so it was crazy tingly.

 

[Bungie]

I've got a set of these along with a HeliBridge : https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25010

Very little vibes from the bars (after doing a TBS). Most of the vibes I get come up through the seat, but thats only in the mid to upper rpm range.

Let your bike break in!

 

[Fred W]

I've got over 15k miles on my '14. I'm pretty sure it's broken in. Funny, I get nothing through the seat but I ado have a Russell so maybe the different foam density kills that.

I have a set of bar ends from my old BMW R1100RS that are a compression fit inside the bars similar to those helmet lock gizmos. How did you get the stock rubber bar end mounts out? Destructively, I suppose?

Nevermind, after reading the entire thread you linked to, it seems the BarEnder version for an FJR screws to the stock rubber damper like all the other bar ends do. Still that is a nice thing to be able to lock your lid on the end of the bar.

edit - Anyone ever removed the rubber bar end damper pieces from the bars? They are a separate part number and appear to be pressed into the bar? I guess maybe heating the aluminum bar would allow the damper piece to be yanked out?

 

[Harald]

edit - Anyone ever removed the rubber bar end damper pieces from the bars? They are a separate part number and appear to be pressed into the bar? I guess maybe heating the aluminum bar would allow the damper piece to be yanked out?

I haven't actually done this, but seem to remember that the way to do this is with an appropriately sized socket (or piece of pipe) and long bolt with washer on it. The socket is placed against the end of the handlebar and then the bolt is threaded into the insert through said socket and tightened, thereby pulling the insert out of the bar.

And BTW, lead shot is still legal for upland bird hunting (at least in WA state). Upland bird = quail, pheasant, chukar, grouse. You must use steel shot for any waterfowl hunting.

 

[Fred W]

So... how does one get the washer inside the handlebar to pull the insert out? Enquiring minds want to know...

Or are you saying that you just yank on the rubber mount from the 6mm bolt in the rubber? Seems like the rubber guts would just pull out first.

 

[Harald]

So... how does one get the washer inside the handlebar to pull the insert out? Enquiring minds want to know...

Or are you saying that you just yank on the rubber mount from the 6mm bolt in the rubber? Seems like the rubber guts would just pull out first.

No washer going inside the handlebar here. A picture is worth a thousand words, and I obviously didn't use anywhere close to 1000 words. Try this video at minute 4:05 where they show an official tool being used to remove the handlebar insert:

My suggestion was to use a socket, bolt and washer to duplicate this tool for the same purpose.

 

[Fred W]

Thanks. That explains the process a lot better. Guess it doesn't even need to be heated to come out? Might have to try it.

 

[Enn]

I installed the Vibronators to my bar ends. I am not sure they helped a lot, but at least they came with a simple tool to remove the inner rubbermount. Below the pics show the original bar end and rubbermount on the right and the removing tool on the left. I am sure you'll get the mechanics.

Apologies, if this is a double post, my first posting got lost somewhere and I was thrown out of the forum.

 

[Fred W]

Thanks. Definitely looks like something I could cob together.

I've come to the conclusion that the bar ends just do not make all that much difference, Tried various weights out there with the rubber under various amounts of tension and none are any better than the stock bar ends.

Tried putting a layer of rubber under the handlebars and made washers of the same material for under the two bolts. After tightening them down to the point of the rubber squishing out the sides, the bars felt somewhat mushy as Wheaton predicted. Even worse, I still couldn't tell the difference between the side with the rubber and the one without. I'm not waiting for strike 3 on that idea. Stick a fork in it.

So the last hope I have left is to try some sort of lead shot fill inside the bars, or one of the bar end dampers that go further up the length of the handle bar, either of which means taking these bar end rubber mounts out of the bars.

This will go on the back burner for a while while I actually ride the bike.

 

[redneckj]

Ever wonder why the vibration gets worse when it gets hotter? That is the good ol Yamaha ECU changing engine timing. Can the timing be changed from the ECU? Not from us common folks. But a lil green man told me that he heard that the factory ECU can be changed if the code can be broken. Can the cold be broken, only time will tell.