Why do you think my FJR's transmission failed?

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Humans can, and do, make mistakes. A single badly missed shift is all it may take to alter the shifting fork mechanism enough that the transmission eventually distorts itself further under its own significant power.
You do not shift the final drive, so there is less opportunity for a human mistake to cause future problems.
Yes, humans can and do make mistakes. That is why designers test and retest components to the point of abuse to make sure when the product is released for sale it will perform without failure for as long as possible. In my case, the transmission did not last as long as the engine, by about half. If Yamaha reads our forum, now they know. We owners know, too. We can also infer one reason the FJR has "only" a five speed transmission-- there's not room for another gear robust enough to handle the engine and remain reliable. Yamaha would gladly give us one, even if we don't need it.

So, no, I don't think even repeated shifts from high down sequentially to first with the engine running will hurt the transmission, even though that's not something that happened to my previous bike. If I'm wrong, Yamaha should and likely will release a bulletin to correct all us who are wrong on this.

 
Even though there have been some transmission failures, the number of failures is pretty darned low as a percentage of the population. So low that Yamaha has not made any design changes in the transmission since the bike's intro back in 2002.

I wouldn't expect to see any big changes due to those small number of failures. YMMV.

 
Weren't there a couple of changes, number of dogs on a gearwheel, an oil passage?

Still doesn't detract from what is certainly a normally very reliable piece of kit.

 
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The gearing change for Gen 2 was done at the middle gear. Not aware of any oil passage changes. There may have been some minor changes, but no dramatic ones. Seems all years have experienced the skipping 2nd gear syndrome, though not very many of them.

Dan here seems to have experienced a much more rare form of failure where 4th gear went away. His is the first that I have ever heard of with that malady.

 
Humans can, and do, make mistakes. A single badly missed shift is all it may take to alter the shifting fork mechanism enough that the transmission eventually distorts itself further under its own significant power.
You do not shift the final drive, so there is less opportunity for a human mistake to cause future problems.
Yes, humans can and do make mistakes. That is why designers test and retest components to the point of abuse to make sure when the product is released for sale it will perform without failure for as long as possible. In my case, the transmission did not last as long as the engine, by about half. If Yamaha reads our forum, now they know. We owners know, too. We can also infer one reason the FJR has "only" a five speed transmission-- there's not room for another gear robust enough to handle the engine and remain reliable. Yamaha would gladly give us one, even if we don't need it.

So, no, I don't think even repeated shifts from high down sequentially to first with the engine running will hurt the transmission, even though that's not something that happened to my previous bike. If I'm wrong, Yamaha should and likely will release a bulletin to correct all us who are wrong on this.
A gearbox shifted by humans should be designed and implemented to function reliably when used by humans. That means that there has to be designed in tolerance for human error. A more robust transmission may cost more to manufacture, or weigh more, or simply (not really so simple) be designed and manufactured a little more carefully so it works better.

The more I think about it the more I believe there is room for improvement in the FJRs transmission. The gears do not shift as smoothly as they could, and the mechanism could be designed with a shorter throw between shifts. The fact that the AE does not have transmission problems leads me to think that the speed of shifting is a factor. Since most FJR owners are experienced riders, we already know how to shift a motorcycle. Imagine how many failures we would hear about if beginners were banging on that shift lever.

 
Im-Special.jpg


Hey Dan, Slap this on your windshield! :D

 
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In 2008 3rd & 4th got 1 gear dog added and in 2013 Yamaha changed the way the gears are machined. At one of these times Yamaha also changed an oil passage.

 
The more I think about it the more I believe there is room for improvement in the FJRs transmission. The gears do not shift as smoothly as they could, and the mechanism could be designed with a shorter throw between shifts. The fact that the AE does not have transmission problems leads me to think that the speed of shifting is a factor.
There is always room for improvement on any design. It's a matter of cost / benefit, and this transmission is not costing Yamaha enough in terms of warranty repairs or lost business. With the thing as relatively reliable as it is, I don't think you'll see much in the way of changes in the near future.

Now if people were flocking to the 6 speed ST Bikes (Concours, etc) and FJR sales were below their expectations, then yeah... a feature change could precipitate a change in the transmission design. But best be careful what you wish for. Any new design could quite easily be less reliable than what we have right now.

Since most FJR owners are experienced riders, we already know how to shift a motorcycle. Imagine how many failures we would hear about if beginners were banging on that shift lever.
I'm not so sure about that. Just because you're "experienced" doesn't mean you're doing it right.
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They can make the perfect bike,but...what they will sell the next year.....???!!!!
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Dan here seems to have experienced a much more rare form of failure where 4th gear went away. His is the first that I have ever heard of with that malady.
I feel special!!
I believe StreetHawk's trans failure was also a 4th gear failure; he detailed the tear down and repair in this excellent thread.
I'm going to read that, thanks.

ionbeam:

In 2008 3rd & 4th got 1 gear dog added and in 2013 Yamaha changed the way the gears are machined. At one of these times Yamaha also changed an oil passage.
That's good to know. Thanks.

Bounce:

Hey Dan, Slap this on your windshield!
biggrin.png
Ummm... gee... um... I think my windshield has run out of sticker space. LOL

 
I had not seen Streethawk's thread before seeing it referenced here. I thought I was pretty thorough in reading this board. Dang.

I did see Ponyhawk's those years ago, and even referenced it in my thread.

Streethawk blames the worn shift fork for his gear wear, which I think is a reversal of cause and effect. Granted, if the fork was bent then fourth may not engage fully, causing excessive wear at the end of the dogs, but most of the shift fork wear is (I'm convinced) from the angle on the dogs where they mate causing the gear to want to push back out when torque is applied by the engine. The shift fork moves the gear over to engage the dogs, but the angle of the surfaces on the dogs tries to push the gear back out. The only thing holding it engaged is the shift fork, which has now become a thrust bearing, not part of its designed purpose.

There are no thrust bearings on the gear shafts. Straight-cut gears do not apply forces along the shaft. The circlips and washers are not thrust bearings (as they were called a few times in Streethawk's thread,) they are simply retainers, or locators. But put on angle on those gear dogs, and now you do have an axial force on the gear along the shaft, resisted only by whatever the next piece is; in this case, the fork.

My fork looked about like his, maybe not quite as thoroughly "machined," and I think the dogs on my 4th gear were worse than his. It was a complete surprise, as I'd had no issues with 4th other than an occasional false neutral, which I blamed on lazy shifting. It never jumped or slipped once actually engaged.

Thinking back, but not being bothered to go look again, I don't remember if he replaced the third gear parts as well, or just fourth. I put both entire shafts from my donor motor into my motor, all "new" transmission. If Streethawk replaced 4th without replacing 3rd, he can expect a repeat of that shift fork wear, because that angled wear on the 4th gear dogs would also have been present on the mating surfaces inside the third gear wheel. Not trying to be a doomsayer, but I hope more was done than just the 4th gear wheels....

He also got much more carried away than I did with other stuff..... Yeah, I did a valve check while it was sitting out, but shock? Final drive? Starter? Pthpthpthpthpth on that! I had enough to do with the tranny shafts. :)

And had he waited until the motor was upright to put the clutch basket back in that would have been simpler. In an upright engine the balancer simply hangs in the correct position when the crank's at #1 TDC.

 

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