Why Streets and Trips over MapSource

[Willie]

I have been reading a fair amount of Rally Reads and it appears quite of few of you LDR guys use Streets and Trips over MapSource. Now I have used S&T before, but since I got my first 2610 which seems like a decade ago, I have exclusively used MapSource.

What am I missing guys, why S&T ?? At least this inquiring mind would like to know

I have developed a way to extract the data out of MapSource and load to excel for time of arrival, amout of time to spend at a stop and even and indicator to automatically account for a time zone change.

Willie

Edit

I guess I should add, this all assumes you are going to the Garmin unit for Routes and WP's

EndEdit

 

[Ignacio]

As one that has been S&T...and considering suffering through and possibly changing to Map Source....let me try this.

3 years ago in the IBR when you were handed a paper packet and had to find manually 139 different locations that were a mixture of simple street addresses, various national park locations, and others harder to divine--Streets and Trips was heads and shoulders above the version of MapSource at the time. It's a more intuitive interface, simpler to use, and I think looks better. I think the MapSource interface sucks personally.

Since 2009 where you're handed GPS locations on a memory stick and import them straight into mapping software--S&T features aren't as important and it's shifting to MapSource because of the ability to analyze multiple routes more effectively and I hear the interface has improved with version. S&T 2010 can read .gpx files directly....so it's still a bit of a race. And I've long used a combination of Excel and GPSU to do the same thing.

But, top Dogs like Owen were S&T, moved to MapSource in the past year or so. That became evident at the National IBA meeting last weekend via seminars and think you'll see many people change this Winter in preparation for the next rally season. I've also heard the MapSource interface is improving with each version.

I'm seriously considering it myself and maybe would have done it this season......but frankly....I lost my MapSource CD when I got my last 2820 and skipped it this season. I'm planning to buy a 376 or 478 this year and will expect a fresh CD to try MapSource again....assuming I'm an old dog that can be taught new tricks.

Also, another piece of software is lurking around out there that got great reviews at the National Meet and potentially a great tool too. EZ-Bake by Curt Gran.

 

[Willie]

SNIPPED for breavity (sp??)
I'm seriously considering it myself and maybe would have done it this season......but frankly....I lost my MapSource CD when I got my last 2820 and skipped it this season. I'm planning to buy a 376 or 478 this year and will expect a fresh CD to try MapSource again....assuming I'm an old dog that can be taught new tricks.

Also, another piece of software is lurking around out there that got great reviews at the National Meet and potentially a great tool too. EZ-Bake by Curt Gran.

Thanks for the explanation and makes sense. I have used both and since my purchase of the 2610 4 or 5 years ago, I simply started and grew with MapSource. Now on a 2720 and really don't want to go the Zumo route either. Both programs have similar features, some are better in S&T (which does look prettier) and some better in MapSource.

I quickly viwed the EZ-Bake briefly and certainly looks like I will dig deeper into it.

Old dogs are smarter and they make tricks of their own

Thanks again,

Willie

 

[Hello Kitty]

Sorry I'm not an LDR guy, but I have run a couple rallies. Does that count?

I learned on Map Source, and always used it until recently when my employer started pushing us to use S&T about 2 years ago. I still prefer Map Source. It may be because it is what I learned on - but for me, the biggest advantage is that I can have more than one route on MapSource and compare them relatively easily. With S&T, you'd need to go between files. Not the end of the world, but to me, a hassle.

I don't find the user interface in Map Source difficult at all. I struggle with S&T constantly. Again, probably because it's what I learned on so I'm constantly thinking, "Well, I could do this in MapSouce. How the $#^& do I do that in S&T???" I'm learning though and coming to appreciate some of the nice things about S&T. Still prefer MapSource though...

I think it boils down to individual preference, really.

But, Willie, I'd be interested to hear about your spread sheet if you're willing to share!!

 

[Fred W]

Yes. Inertia is huge.

Whatever you 1st become comfortable with is hard to leave behind.

signed - Mapsource user.

 

[HaulinAshe]

I still call it MapSucks. But after buying three consecutive year-versions of S&T, I quit paying Microsoft for being stubborn-ass pirates and releasing S&T with NO GPX support. Now that S&T finally has GPX support it may be back in the running.

Try TYRE. It's shareware and uses the dynamic mapping engine of Google Maps.

 

[Big-D]

I agree that S&T looks far better, is much easier to use and has better detail. What I find to be the problem is trying to load it on a GPS (Garmin). Mapsource being made by Garmin is easy once you get your map set up. Both allows to enter GPS coordinates, but S&T is much easier.

I actually have both, but my S&T is a 2007 version. I usually update each year, but I started reading really poor reviews, many stating how now Microsoft no longer allows this program to be loaded on more than one computer. In the past, I loaded my copy on my two computers and all of my kids computers also. I understand you can no longer do that, so I have not bought a newer version.

Google maps has its advantages also, but again, not has easy to use as S&T. Some people swear by Mapsource, so I guess once you become really proficient with it, it becomes second nature to use it. Personally, I use it, but I find it to be a pain in the ass sometime, especially when you want to make corrections or alterations to a current route. But, that could all be because I don't use it that much and I am not very proficient with it. Like others, I depend on my buddy Fairlaner to make up the map routes!

 

[SkooterG]

Mapsource. Ain't perfect, but I prefer it. It's what I 'grew up' on.

Iggy's post nailed it. With electronic bonii, S&T biggest advantage - finding stuff, is no longer in play. It's 'optimize' feature can be nice, but only in limited instances and it takes forever.

Too bad Google doesn't make a mapping program. I love their internet based mapping.

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

Yes. Inertia is huge. Whatever you 1st become comfortable with is hard to leave behind.

I never got over the loss of Wordstar

I have had S&T as well as Mapsource for a couple months now and can't figure out either one. At least I can't get a route to load on my Garmin. So I still unfold maps.

 

[beemerdons]

Yes. Inertia is huge. Whatever you 1st become comfortable with is hard to leave behind.

I never got over the loss of Wordstar

I have had S&T as well as Mapsource for a couple months now and can't figure out either one. At least I can't get a route to load on my Garmin. So I still unfold maps.

Fucking god damn GPS! They'll take away my maps only when they pry them out of my cold dead fingers. Right now, SkooterG and Big-D are over on the March Ride to Cabo San Lucas thread chirping about that son of a bitch GPS! Jesu Cristo, Que Lastima, Christ on a Crutch: There is only one road on the entire Baja Peninsula leading North and South and those gay babies are over there talking about coordinate details. Lousy Faggots!

 

[Dudewado]

Yes. Inertia is huge. Whatever you 1st become comfortable with is hard to leave behind.

I never got over the loss of Wordstar

I have had S&T as well as Mapsource for a couple months now and can't figure out either one. At least I can't get a route to load on my Garmin. So I still unfold maps.

Fucking god damn GPS! They'll take away my maps only when they pry them out of my cold dead fingers. Right now, SkooterG and Big-D are over on the March Ride to Cabo San Lucas thread chirping about that son of a bitch GPS! Jesu Cristo, Que Lastima, Christ on a Crutch: There is only one road on the entire Baja Peninsula leading North and South and those gay babies are over there talking about coordinate details. Lousy Faggots!

LOL!

[SIZE=24pt]LUDDITE RANT ON![/SIZE]

:lol:

 

[Fred W]

No kidding. What a collection of curmudgeons! :lol:

Is Mapsource a little un-intuitive? Hell yeah, but it ain't rocket science, friends.

Once you know the routine, it moves along pretty quickly.

I've never once had a problem loading a route from Mapsource to any of the Garmin GPSes I've had.

It takes one click.

Perhaps we need a dedicated Mapsource routing tutorial for you feeble minded old farts. You know, with lots of pictures and no big words?

 

[old Pilot]

Umm, I can deal with MS but I'm still lost with S&T. Still haven't even figured out where/how to save any routes. What folder do ya use? What extension?

 

[dcarver]

Mapsource. Ain't perfect, but I prefer it. It's what I 'grew up' on.
Iggy's post nailed it. With electronic bonii, S&T biggest advantage - finding stuff, is no longer in play. It's 'optimize' feature can be nice, but only in limited instances and it takes forever.

Too bad Google doesn't make a mapping program. I love their internet based mapping.

Convert Google Maps to gpx

 

[Blind Squirrel]

Perhaps we need a dedicated Mapsource routing tutorial for you feeble minded old farts. You know, with lots of pictures and no big words?

Bring it on! :clapping: :hyper:

 

[Bounce]

Back in the olden days (2003 IBR) I chose the Mapsource engine (the maps are/were many and varied and all use the Mapsource name) over S&T. The interface had improved over the as-the-crow-flies original and allowed dragging of routes to new roads without complex waypoints (previous versions). It wasn't as pretty as S&T and didn't have some of the printout features of S&T but the difference was that it could upload the route into the GPS directly while also being able to upload additional road details into the memory card. S&T couldn't send to GPSs. It could only listen to them and use that location info to place a "here you are" marker on the map that it displayed on your computer monitor. That was useless to me on a bike.

In addition to Mapsource (which would plop the map down right on top of the roads in the GPS because it was using the exact same maps), I also used DeLorme's Street Atlas for its address-level searching (it could also upload routes directly into the GPS). The drawback was that DeLorme didn't always get the waypoints exactly at intersections because the maps were slightly different. That meant for the GPS to do "fit to road" you might have to tweak vias and such to get them into the exact right spot.

Pre-GPSs, I liked S&T for it's features, look, and interface but forever-and-a-day MS refused to add the ability to upload routes directly into GPSs in spite of requests from customers (and endurance-riding MS employees on the inside).

 

[canucklehead-biker]

Not an IBR fella, and haven't (yet) done an LD rally, so can't comment on the searching for bonus etc aspects, so here's my non-expert, average user opinion.

Biggest problem I've had with any of the mainstream programs is that there isn't one for the Mac, so I wind up running the Windows versions on Parallels. Gamin has a stripped-down and not particularly good version of Mapsource (sorta) that they call Roadtrip which is available for the Mac, but it isn't much use for anything other than the basic here-to-there route planning that you can do just as easily on the gps directly. I've never used the Mapsource program itself so can't comment, but the comments here on how the interface has improved etc has me thinking I'll have to dig around in my Garmin cd's and dvd's and see if there's a version I can load under Parallels and give it a try.

I've used S&T (now that it has .gpx support) and it seems to work well, although the usual MS annoyances are there. Delorme is ok too, although it's a bit more cumbersome to use. Easiest (so far) has been Google maps to .gpx, and/or Mapquest to .gpx. These work well and are pretty seamless (as long as you have an internet connection), but they for sure don't have the sorts of features that would make them appealing to folks doing rallies (I don't think).

Griff

 

[Willie]

Sorry I'm not an LDR guy, but I have run a couple rallies. Does that count?
I learned on Map Source, and always used it until recently when my employer started pushing us to use S&T about 2 years ago. I still prefer Map Source. It may be because it is what I learned on - but for me, the biggest advantage is that I can have more than one route on MapSource and compare them relatively easily. With S&T, you'd need to go between files. Not the end of the world, but to me, a hassle.

I don't find the user interface in Map Source difficult at all. I struggle with S&T constantly. Again, probably because it's what I learned on so I'm constantly thinking, "Well, I could do this in MapSouce. How the $#^& do I do that in S&T???" I'm learning though and coming to appreciate some of the nice things about S&T. Still prefer MapSource though...

I think it boils down to individual preference, really.

But, Willie, I'd be interested to hear about your spread sheet if you're willing to share!!

I can send you a sample of one of the trips I recently did for the AMA Tons and Burgs Treasure Hunt. I dont see how I can attach a file to a post here, so I can send it via Email. If you send me an email to [email protected], Put MapSource Planning in the title I will have your email address and will send it to anyone that wants it. I will provide instructions in the file or notes on how to use and will send phone number if you need some verbal walk thrus. I will also include a blank template to get you started.

I primarily developed it for doing the National Park Tours to see if I would arrive at a VC on time to get a stamp and be able to spend time at the NP. It also assists me we to stop for the night so I can target motels. I rarely make reservations ahead of time when one the road.

The time of arrival is based on what you have set for the MPH by road type in MapSource for MPH. I use the default which has been pretty damn accurate in my experience.

Heres an image of the file. You might be able to see the column headings

Maybe a larger view of the file Larger Image Here

Willie

 

[Hello Kitty]

Umm, I can deal with MS but I'm still lost with S&T. Still haven't even figured out where/how to save any routes. What folder do ya use? What extension?

They save right in the file you have. I don't know how else to explain it. As for what folder, whatever one you want. I have a few Mapsource files on my desktop, but then for each rally, I have a folder for that event that has my pictures and whatever else I may have for that particular event. The routes themselves are right there in the file.

If you open mapsource, do some stuff like add waypoints and then plot a couple routes, go to the file menu, do save as... and name it. Exactly the same as you would for Streets and Trips or any other software...