Yamaha #1 in Reliability

[puppychow]

Mine was a ticker. Yamaha fixed it on their dime... Then it killed a deer and a deer almost killed it... ...rose it back from near death, and it keeps on ticking (or NOT ticking). ***** refuses to die... knock on wood. Can't complain...

 

[BanjoBoy]

Q: How does an *** fault gray qualify as "sexy"? A: When you paint it ticket-me red.

Regarding the story linked to in the first post: I HATE those kinds of web articles where you have to click forward to see the answers from 1 thru 10 (or whatever), each page loaded with advertisements that make the pages slow to load. It is a cheap tactic to produce "clicks" that they use with their advertisers to artificially inflate apparent visitors to their sites. Doesn't surprise me that Motorcycle.com would stoop to such tactics.

I did not click to see what was more reliable than a CanAm Spider.

Adblock Plus is yer friend https://adblockplus.org/

See'in the Can Am haz three wheels, it's not really a motorcycle, or in the same class, which puts Bring Mor Wallet in last place again; as it should be.

 

[jammess]

I think BMW quality went down the drain beginning about 2000 thru about 2010 but then things began to improve. The car division assumed control over BMW Mottorad about 2000 or 2001 which probably resulted in quality going south. I know there was discussion about the possibility of stopping motorcycle production entirely because the motorcycle division was not pulling its own weight in the company and had not been for many years.

I don't know about CS but I think the quality of motorcycles from BMW is as good as that from anybody today. If I were younger and had more years left to ride there would be a new R1200RT in the garage right now. I just got through mounting a new set of Michelins on my '10 FJR to stop the annoying front end wobble when decelerating from around 50mph down to about 40mph which from what I've read is not uncommon for an FJR. On a motorcycle with telelever front suspension there will never be a steering head wobble not ever flat period! Oh, and the wheels on my FJR were in no way engineered for strength just made beefy and heavy that was plain to see and feel. Had to take two Advil last night.

I read somewhere that the FJR is all about the motor and I believe it. I still have my '93 and pristine R1100RSL and if I could only have one motorcycle it would be the beemer and not an FJR or any other oriental motorcycle. I replaced my gen2 center stand recently with a gen3 CS and got a good taste of Yamaha engineering or lack thereof but at least I can easily put the beast on the CS now. What, took Yamaha 10 years to finally engineer the CS? I've heard it said BMW over-engineers. Well, maybe it's about time Yamaha take a page from BMW's playbook.

There is an old saying that goes something like this: Harley Davidson builds motorcycles for Americans. BMW builds motorcycles for Germans and the Japanese build motorcycles for, you guessed it..... Americans. Think about it.

 

[FJRay]

Well I think you should sell that POS Yamaha and enjoy the lack of dealer support along with expensive parts of the BMW. I just finished the rebuild of a beemer final drive "99 RTS" for the third time on the same bike for two different owners. Talk about **** house engineering and the center stand is worse than the FJR. The center stand issue on most bikes is the operators lack of technique rather than poor engineering. IMHO

I've heard of a few seal leaks on the FJR final drive and I think one failed from the drain plug falling out out but otherwise it's a pretty bulletproof unit.

 

[Fred W]

@jammess - You are certainly entitled to have your own opinions, but I would counter that most of what you said about the FJR is based entirely on your preconceived bias. At the risk of being trolled I'll give you my opinion:

I have owned a a few BMWs in the past, including a copy of an R1100RS you reference, and it wasn't how you described in my opinion. The transmissions shifted like a truck. The dry clutches felt agricultural. The boxer twin engines had plenty of annoying vibration considering their lack of power, and torque the entire bike around the crank's axis when you revved it, as all boxers do. I did like the telelever fork on the RS, as it had no front end dive when braking, but the rest of the bike was nowhere near as refined as any of the Generations of FJR are.

The front end wobble is a fault of the tire, not the bike. It can happen on any conventional fork bike that has reasonably quick steering geometry. It isn't a design flaw. Neither is the center stand.

This thread is about reliability and the FJR has always been among the most reliable bike in the category. More so than even a brand new BMW is today.

Also, FWIW, the Asian (the word "oriental" is not used in polite society today) motorcycle makers' largest market is NOT North America. And even if it were, I do not see how that would be such a bad thing. Your "old saying" (which I've never even heard before) infers that Americans are somehow inferior to Germans. I doubt that will be a popular opinion around these parts.

 

[hppants]

"...I've heard of a few seal leaks on the FJR final drive and I think one failed from the drain plug falling out out but otherwise it's a pretty bulletproof unit"

To clarify (and support) Ray's point, I can personally attest to the accuracy of that statement. My Gen 1 bike had a pinion seal leaking after 50,00 miles, which was replaced on my shop bench in about an hour.

On my first Gen 3 bike, after I performed the 600 mile "break in" rear end fluid change, and forgot to torque the drain plug (dumb *** Pants), at the next ride, I rode the bike no less than 35 miles (and likely more) in 95 degree heat and at speeds averaging 70 mph with ZERO oil in the rear end because the drain plug fell out and struck a friend in the chest behind me. In the middle of no where, I re-filled the rear end with outboard motor oil GL-5 I grabbed at a fishing bait shop, transferred the fill plug to the drain hole, and stuck a fishing cork in the fill hole, and RODE THE BIKE HOME 60 MILES. When I drained the GL-5, although it had some metal in it, there was no noise or vibration what so ever. In caution, I replaced the pumpkin.

Now - if that doesn't speak volumes to reliability and bulletproof-ness, then nothing does....

 

[jammess]

OK, to be fair there are some things I like about the FJR. One is the outstanding factory service manual it is fantastic and much better than the FSM for my RS. The double sided swing arm on the FJR means virtually no final drive failures. I would much rather replace a clutch in an FJR than any dry clutch BMW as in who in their right mind wouldn't.

So, Fred you are probably correct in your assessment that I'm biased, I admit it. I've never been bothered by a flat twin's rocking couple vibes but that's just me. I'm more irritated by the high frequency buzz from an inline 4 but again that's me and I haven't experienced it with my FJR. I also agree that the front end wobble is a tire issue. I don't go along with changing out the steering head bearings to roller bearings being a proper fix at all but merely a way of masking the underlying problem and I also don't think steering head bearing torque is the issue here.

I reread my post and it was a bit harsh in hindsight and I apologize for my Bavarian bias but jeez, why did they put those two CS bracket bolts in backwards and that Rube Goldberg way of connecting the rear shock which doesn't do anything for ground clearance. Honest to god hefting that rear wheel around yesterday about killed my back and I admit I went to bed pissed off. It was all I could do to mule that beast up onto my static balancer but I got 'er done and no more wobble.

 

[Fred W]

You only need to take that center stand bolt off once from the wrong direction. Replacement bolt goes in from the inside. And Mamma Yama knew FJR riders are all a bunch of olde pharts and we need some weight lifting exercise.

Seriously, I never thought it was that bad. A little tricky to get the wheel hub splines to align sometimes. I've found the trick is to put the bike in gear. :thumbsup:

 

[puppychow]

FJR wheels are definitely a bit heavy, in comparison to the alloy wheels of my Z car, but not that bothersome. If one is too weak to tweak one's back that badly carrying the FJR wheel, how would you ever manage picking up the FJR if you ever happen to drop it, even if you practice the butt to the seat and push with your legs technique..

 

[K_Flyer]

@jammess. If the BMW tele-lever front suspension is so great, why has BMW gone to inverted forks on the S1000 series and some of the new R bikes? The ball joint is a high failure rate item, but many do not realize it as the joint binds up slowly and you think you've just lost your mojo. I lost a year of fun riding until a buddy told me about the known ball joint problem. Of course, the dealers are told not to do anything about it unless the customer specifically mentions the ball joint and describes the right symptoms. The inverted forks certainly provide superior handling.

Theresa was very sorry to sell her '07 K1200 GT until she got about 2 k miles on her FJR. She would never go back. On a trip today she was saying how nice it was to go on roads well out of cell range and not worry if the bikes would get us home. The K1200RS and variants of it were the last reliable Beemers. Even the 1600's are having persistent problems with water pumps and rear drives. Remember the recent R1200GT's that needed to be hauled to the dealer because the rear suspension would collapse?

One of the problems with that survey is that they neglect to ask how many problems you's had, not just whether you've had a problem. I have 12 k miles on my '15 FJR1300ES with absolutely no problems. I shipped the records on the K1200GT with the bike but, as I recall, in the first 10 k miles the bike was in the shop at least 10 times for fueling issues (many adjustments, new throttle linkage, two replacement ECU's), safety recalls, a front/rear misalignment and other issues.

 

[jammess]

Hey, just installed a MCL fork brace with my new (yesterday) tires an took a ride. It might be all in my head but I swear the bike feels like it's on a rail and 100 lbs lighter with absolutely no hint of wobble at any speed to 100 mph! I could feel nothing but smooth in the handle bars so she's mine and you can't buy it!

You're right Fred the bolts are history now and so are those god awful steel belted OEM Metzler POS tires. Jeez, I don't even put Metzlers on my beemer.

Now, if I could figure out a way to move the handlebars inward just a little all would really be good. My wrists get a bit sore after a few miles.

 

[Fred W]

Wait, you have a 2010 and you are just now replacing the OE tires 7 years later?

That's Friday fodder.

What a crazy idea... that the crappy 7 year old worn out original tires might have been responsible for handling problems.

 

[jammess]

Wait, you have a 2010 and you are just now replacing the OE tires 7 years later?

That's Friday fodder.
What a crazy idea... that the crappy 7 year old worn out original tires might have been responsible for handling problems.

Well, yeah...I know that sounds crazy and I should know better I admit it and it was a ***** demounting those 7 year old steel belted POS Metzlers that only had 4400 miles on them. But, that's not as bad as what I did on the '93RS. I bought that bike 6 years ago and it had one (1) original mile on the clock having spent its life as part of a private collection. So, those tires were 18 years old and I put about 6K miles on them until I replaced them two years ago so the FJR OEM tires were only seven years old so not too bad when you think about it.

I admit I should have my head examined and when I think about it it's not really fair to criticize the bike for having a front suspension wobble. But, she's primo now. Oh, and I have done a complete end to end fluid flush/change and lube all except front fork oil and swing arm.

Hi Murray, I know what you mean about fueling problems. I sold my '04 R1150RT with 60K miles when I found my FJR. I fought the lean burning surge problem for a long time before installing an LC-2 controller with a wideband O2 sensor so I could run an AFR of 12.9:1 which transformed the bike. After 12 years with that whizzy brake top heavy beast the FJR is a true breath of fresh air. Those power assisted miserable brakes with something like 15 bleeders almost made me get on my knees and cry until I removed the entire ABS system and sold the modulator on ebay. The reason the FJR seems like a light weight bike to me is because of my history with the 1150. Now there is top heavy. I also installed an LC-2 along with new matched injectors on the '93RS which really made that old girl smooth. IMO, if you own a BMW and you want it to perform you need to do your own thing and make your own mistakes and if you can avoid the dealers in all but a few cases. I realize not everyone can do that so an FJR makes a lot of sense. I bought my 1150 new and never in 12 years ever took it to a dealer for anything including the first service.

I think I'll shut my pie hole before I dig myself in deeper. My wife thinks I'm cheap. I won't argue that. Wouldn't you know Fred would pick up on my 7 year old tires. Truth is I'm embarrassed and I take back what I said about the FJR. Every now and then I got to eat some crow. Oh, and I should have said Japanese instead of oriental in my previous post. My mistake and I apologize to anyone I offended for posting that in the first place. My only excuse is my back was flat killing me and I was pissed off. I actually took a few more than a couple of Advil. One thing sure you won't bend a rim on an FJR.

Jim

 

[Fred W]

I, for one, appreciate your honesty. We all have our bad days and want to rail about something now and then.

I was just complaining to a good friend about how hard it is to pull the damn FCR carb on his DRZ400E I'm working on, but then later remembered how completely miserable it was to pull the dual carbs on my '01 Aprillia Pegaso. Yeah, that was Italian engineering to put dual carbs on a single cylinder 650, and then require you to drop the rear subframe to get access to change the jets. But it ran very sweet when you got it dialed in.

My 11RS was a '94, and I used a Techlusion box to get the inherent lean surge resolved. I also had to buy a TwinMax to get the sync perfect, and then the bike ran smooth(er). Much frustration was had before finding these ad-hoc solutions. Then, after everything was sorted, I got rid of the thing before I really had a chance to enjoy it, and moved on to a (gasp) Asian Kawasaki Concours to get the 4 cylinder smoothness. That one didn't last long either, as I soon bought my 2005 FJR and have never regretted that purchase for a single moment. What the FJR lacked in "character" it made up for (in spades!) in the performance and reliability areas.

After rolling 100k miles onto the old '05, I replaced it with a brand new '14 (red like my RS was), and I'm still deeply groovin' on the FJRs. Every once in a while I think back to that old 11RS and wish I still had it to take out now and then on a quiet Sunday morning ride. Then I come to my senses and realize I've been spoiled by the excellence of the FJR.

By the way, my 2 year old "new" FJR has over 25k miles on it already, and time to put a new rear tire on it again. This will be the 4th rear tire in 2 years. Just to say; get out and ride that FJR of yours and you'll be a lot happier with it.

Happy Friday

 

[user 90626]

I just picked up my brand new 2016 FJR yesterday, which just happened to be the warmest day of year here in SW BC. I took the long way home on quiet back roads and managed to put nearly 100 km on it and loved every minute. We'll see if I feel the same way on Sunday. I'm going out for a 500 km ride.

I've had 3 BMWs over the last 15 years and have accumulated nearly 400,000 km on them. My favourite was the 2007 RT that I currently own. It now has 168,000 km and up until the 140,000 km mark was very reliable; nothing but a final drive seal leak, which was covered under warranty. What made me change to the FJR wasn't because of poor reliability; it was the cost of maintenance and the lack of dealers. Every time I took it in for routine maintenance, it was nearly $2000 (including new tires). And I had to drive 70 km into Vancouver, which often took 2 hours due to the traffic. Then my wife would have to come and get me in the car, because I didn't want to sit around all day, so that's 2 more trips. Last year it was taking 6 to 8 weeks to get in for service. And there really was no other option. The next closest dealer is in Victoria; a 2 hour drive and a 2 hour ferry ride; or Kelowna; a 4 hour drive. I have 2 Yamaha dealers within 1/2 hour of my house and 3 more within 1 hour.

When I got the new bike home, I parked it in the garage next to the RT. My wife came out and looked at it and said, "It's so small". When sitting next to the RT with top case on, it does look small. The FJR is shorter and narrower. Then she said, "We're keeping the old bike for when we travel together, right?" I was planning to try to sell it, but now I'm not so sure. She's very comfortable on the RT with her custom seat and back rest and seems dubious about the FJR.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Get her a backrest and a Russell. She'll forget what a BMW is.

 

[Uncle Hud]

HotRodZilla posted: Get her a backrest and a Russell. She'll forget what a BMW is.

Ding, ding! Amazingly, HotRodZilla actually gotten something right!

Aunt Kelly has logged over 3,500 miles on the back of my (our?) FJR since we met about 16 months ago -- all of them on the stock pillion seat. (And, as mentioned elsewhere, 2,200 of those miles were on a three-day weekend.)

Your sweetie might seriously enjoy the sportbike flavor of the FJR. Mine does.

 

[RossKean]

With the FJR, proximity to the dealer (for me) has been largely irrelevant. I am no expert mechanic but the bike hasn't needed any care and attention I couldn't provide in 8+ years of ownership and 265,000 km (165,000 mi.). A couple electrical issues, fork seals/bushings, front wheel bearings and that's about it. Maybe a few light bulbs, plugs, some suspension service, couple sets of brake pads, a bunch of oil and tires too. Even the battery is original but I am replacing it this year. Most reliable piece of machinery I have had the pleasure of owning.

 

[wetwolf]

When I got the new bike home, I parked it in the garage next to the RT. My wife came out and looked at it and said, "It's so small". When sitting next to the RT with top case on, it does look small. The FJR is shorter and narrower. Then she said, "We're keeping the old bike for when we travel together, right?" I was planning to try to sell it, but now I'm not so sure. She's very comfortable on the RT with her custom seat and back rest and seems dubious about the FJR.

That sounds like a perfect excuse to keep 2 bikes around. When she decides that she likes the FJR just fine, then sell the beemer and get yourself a hooligan bike.

My .02

Da Wolf

 

[Fred W]

You could trade the old one in, but it is awfully hard to find a smaller wife that likes to be pillion on long trips. I just happen to be lucky in that regard. :lol: