Yamaha's Woes

[user 213]

XT660 Tenere? That tired old lump of a single? That things been around more than a street walker's panties. Heavy, under powered, but now with EFI! Does the market really need another not off road, poser dual-sport?

Spoken like a man who thinks a KLR is the same as a GS.

Nah, spoken like a man that rode that and other Yamaha motors with other brands on the side. And the KLR has a lot going for it, but it doesn't really sing to me. (the only single that really ever did was the SR600 and maybe the XR650R w/kit, but that's a real dual sport) The GS, well, depends which GS you want to talk about. The 1200 is very smooth and powerful, but not really a off road bike. The 650, it's kinda fun, kinda ghey, but sort of GS lite, and the new 800 has a lot going for it, decent weight, good power, nice reliable drivetrain, (not BMW), but the jury is still out on that one.

Don't get so excited over a bike w/o mud clearance. Of course, maybe you'll get really lucky and they'll bring the dirty version over too.

 

[SockMonkey]

XT660 Tenere? That tired old lump of a single? That things been around more than a street walker's panties. Heavy, under powered, but now with EFI! Does the market really need another not off road, poser dual-sport?

Spoken like a man who thinks a KLR is the same as a GS.

Nah, spoken like a man that rode that and other Yamaha motors with other brands on the side. And the KLR has a lot going for it, but it doesn't really sing to me. (the only single that really ever did was the SR600 and maybe the XR650R w/kit, but that's a real dual sport) The GS, well, depends which GS you want to talk about. The 1200 is very smooth and powerful, but not really a off road bike. The 650, it's kinda fun, kinda ghey, but sort of GS lite, and the new 800 has a lot going for it, decent weight, good power, nice reliable drivetrain, (not BMW), but the jury is still out on that one.

Don't get so excited over a bike w/o mud clearance. Of course, maybe you'll get really lucky and they'll bring the dirty version over too.

This is supposed to be what's in the pipeline for the US: XT660Z Tenere. Look for a price point of ~$6,500.00.

 

[jride]

I would like to see a genIII with smoother engine 6 spd and electronic cruise control.

without at least some of these changes i will probably have to look else where(c14 or BMW)

but FJR still may win in the end.

 

[Fred W]

I would like to see a genIII with smoother engine 6 spd and electronic cruise control.without at least some of these changes i will probably have to look else where(c14 or BMW)

but FJR still may win in the end.

Hahaha... good one!

Better start looking elsewhere, 'cause that ain't gonna happen!

 

[Spook]

Does this mean we wont get a Gen3 with a 6th gear?

They give you a sixth and every one will be howling for a seventh.

 

[Spook]

... they would just offer up the FJR in couple of more appealing colors...

"Any customer can have a[n] [FJR] painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black" Mother Yamaha aka Henry Ford

Black is such a zen-like color.

It is all colors and yet it is none.

It sucks up all wavelengths with equal disdain.

(but red looks better)

Ommm...

Err, why replace it if you love it? There's not a lot of difference with the '09, and even if the '10 has nice changes, it's probably not going to be that different.

In my humble opinion the 2009 is a better bike than the 2007 and I like the color better. The 2009 has fixes for most of the things that I dislike about the 2007 plus I like the black/black/black color better. The 2009 C14 also has addressed most of the things that I dislike about the 2007 FJR. I already have a 2008 ZX-14 - what a great bike. It would be awesome to have that engine/tranny in a sport-tour machine. We will see what happens end-o-year.

I do not see how the few minor improvements made to the 2009 would be worth the gigantic whack in depreciation you would take in that "upgrade".

SHHHHHHH let him spend his money we need someone to keep Yamaha in business.

 

[c-zulu]

This is supposed to be what's in the pipeline for the US: XT660Z Tenere. Look for a price point of ~$6,500.00.

If it has decent power I'm in. Ecspecially at that price point.

 

[2WheelTiger]

This is supposed to be what's in the pipeline for the US: XT660Z Tenere. Look for a price point of ~$6,500.00.


If it has decent power I'm in. Ecspecially at that price point.

At $6500, it would be $1000 more expensive than a KLR. The KLR has a bigger following and more available accessories than the Tenere will have. If they bring it into the country and try to sell it at that price, they'll fail and nobody willl buy one. Yes, all the comparable Euro brands are INSANELY priced, but I see the Tenere going head to head with the KLR.

What does the Tenere have over the KLR? Fuel injection (questionable value) and dual disk brakes. I can't find any data on the Tenere's alternator output, so I can't compare. Are those things worth the 17% price difference?

We'll see.

 

[2WheelTiger]

Don't get so excited over a bike w/o mud clearance. Of course, maybe you'll get really lucky and they'll bring the dirty version over too.

You mean like the ones on the 650cc BMWs you just listed?

If I wanted a full dirty, I'd go back to my WR450.

 

[Fred W]

At $6500, it would be $1000 more expensive than a KLR. The KLR has a bigger following and more available accessories than the Tenere will have. If they bring it into the country and try to sell it at that price, they'll fail and nobody willl buy one. Yes, all the comparable Euro brands are INSANELY priced, but I see the Tenere going head to head with the KLR.
What does the Tenere have over the KLR? Fuel injection (questionable value) and dual disk brakes. I can't find any data on the Tenere's alternator output, so I can't compare. Are those things worth the 17% price difference?

Sorry, but I do not share your enthusiasm for the KLR. Yes, I owned one, a 2005, briefly. I got rid of it in a matter of months as it did everything poorly. The road manners were horrible, almost scary and off road it is a bloated pig. Yes there is a large following. Just like the Concours C1000 has. Lots of aftermarket goodies. Neither are particularly great bikes. What makes them so popular is their low price point.

IMO, to be competitive with the KLR at a higher price, all a bike needs is better road handling. Clearly anyone that buys a "dual sport" bike this heavy is biasing their riding toward the road side. Paved roads and dirt roads. Not gnarly single track through the deep woods.

And yes, IMO Fuel Injection is worth a premium. This kind of bike is not likely to be anyone's "daily driver". That means potentially sitting for long periods between uses. I'd want to just hop on it and fire it up. Who likes cleaning carburetors out every year or two?

 

[Checkswrecks]

XT660 Tenere? That tired old lump of a single? That things been around more than a street walker's panties. Heavy, under powered, but now with EFI! Does the market really need another not off road, poser dual-sport?

Spoken like a man who thinks a KLR is the same as a GS.

We all know the KLR is better for a number of things than a $18000 GS. I have a 1990 because it doesn't do anything really well, but it does most everything OK and I never worry about it. Kinda like having an old comfy jacket. It's my leave at the airport, loaner, gravel road, poke-around bike that you just can't kill.

The overall motorcycle sales have dropped more than 50%. A German dealer was telling me recently that they are shifting floor space to allocate more for the smaller bikes & scooters. They make less on each, but not by a lot and that's where the sales volume is. Both thoughts bode poorly for bikes like ours.

As for the Tenere, I was looking at a blue one in Netherlands last Saturday. Lotsa new plastic and they really tried to copy the KTM Adventure styling. I'm glad to see any new bike come to the US market, but I think that one will not do well in sales here. It's priced more than the KLR, tall enough to scare off the newbies who shop for less expensive singles, and not as capable as the Honda, KTM, or Beemer offerings that experienced riders want. We'll have to see.

 

[typ0]

Yamaha should consider bringing some of the other models they already make to the US too. They should at least offer them special order. Just have to ship them to the US instead. Check this out:

https://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/Images/...cm26-296753.pdf

All four of these bikes look pretty cool to me. That XJR1300 definitely has the old school UJM look. I can pass on the number though.

 

[Fred W]

The TDM900 looks like it could displace some Versys and V-strom sales if it was priced right.

 

[Gerry.GEG]

I agree, if most Americans had a bit more class and didn't think the sun rises and sets on cruisers maybe they would. F**N' cruisers are ruining our chances to get really great bikes here in the U.S.

Sad, Sad, Sad.

Yamaha should consider bringing some of the other models they already make to the US too. They should at least offer them special order. Just have to ship them to the US instead. Check this out:
https://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/Images/...cm26-296753.pdf

All four of these bikes look pretty cool to me. That XJR1300 definitely has the old school UJM look. I can pass on the number though.

 

[jjsC6]

I'd love to see a new and improved bike, but the reality is that all they have to do is put a different color on it for '10 and I'll almost for sure buy one. I love the bike, and really wanted to trade up this year. Didn't like the black. Next year I'll almost for sure buy something new, and I love the FJR.

And no, I have no intentions of spending a couple thousand to have a new bike painted - so save that solution for someone else.

 

[jjsC6]

I agree, if most Americans had a bit more class and didn't think the sun rises and sets on cruisers maybe they would. F**N' cruisers are ruining our chances to get really great bikes here in the U.S.
Sad, Sad, Sad.

That's a pretty funny post. How dare anyone like something that we don't like - they MUST be stupid. Classic! :blink:

 

[SockMonkey]

If I were a betting man, I'd put money on 2010 (if not 2009..?) being the last production year for the FJR. There are a couple of reasons for my saying that, but the most obvious reason has to do with production volumes. I've always suspected that the FJR has one of the lowest production volumes in Yamaha's street bike line up, but what drives the point home is the glaring contrast illustrated in the recall notices in the latest edition of MCN.

The ignition switch recall is noted as affecting 9300 FJRs sold in the US over 3+ production years; '06, '07, '08 and '09. Since we're only into mid-March of '09, I'm going to do the easy math and say that Yamaha sold 3,100 FJRs/year since '06. Compare that to recall for the 26,082 Suzuki GSX-R1000s sold in '05 and '06; or 13,041 bikes/year. (It's likely that sales numbers for Yamaha's R1 are in that range as well.) Those are the kind of sales numbers that cause bike manufacturers to spend significant R&D dollars (or Yen as the case may be...) developing new platforms and improving existing ones. Taking an evolutionary leap with the FJR (or a Gen III) like they did with the '09 R1 would require some serious sales numbers to make it worth while. As an example of this, I submit that in reality the Gen II FJR only addressed one significant shortcoming of the Gen I; the heat issue. Every thing else they changed were merely minor fixes and cosmetic freshening (keeping mind that the changes came 4+ years after the bike was first launched). On the other hand, Yamaha's "R" bikes have enjoyed far more attention from their engineers and designers with substantive improvements every few years. The reason? Volume.

Even though every bike manufacturer has a flagship in its line-up - which the FJR arguably was early in its life cycle, every bike also carries with it its own internal P&L statement which has as much to do with determining end-of-life as the fickle marketplace. Going back to the original point of this thread, in past years Yamaha's likely been able to absorb or offset the low volumes and low (or no) margins of the FJR through big volume sales of R1s, R6s and FZ6s among others. Let's face it; the FJR has never been a mass appeal bike and, granted, was never intended as such. Yet with sport bike sales in decline globally, making the argument to cannibalize margin of one product or products to support another - in this case the FJR, becomes exceptionally difficult.

As they say, it's business...

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

If I were a betting man, I'd put money on 2010 (if not 2009..?) being the last production year for the FJR. There are a couple of reasons for my saying that, but the most obvious reason has to do with production volumes...

True for the US but Yamaha also makes profits on sales in Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Admittedly the numbers are low but perhaps in total volume a net profit can be realized.

I don't believe (based on faith and hope mostly) that the end of the FJR production is here yet. My bet would be the Sport-touring class is generally going to be stagnant and like the first Gen Connie... essentially unchanged for a more than a decade.

 

[2WheelTiger]

Pragmatically, I'm with SockMonkey on this one. However, having worked for a major Japanese manufacturer at one point in my career, there's a chance they'll stay married to the fat girl "just because". There is some percieved value in having a broad product line.

They might also do what Honda did with the ST once. Just stop production for a year until inventories dwindle. That might mean there would be no 2010's, but there would be 2011's that were the same as the 2009's.

 

[PA1195]

Pragmatically, I'm with SockMonkey on this one. However, having worked for a major Japanese manufacturer at one point in my career, there's a chance they'll stay married to the fat girl "just because". There is some percieved value in having a broad product line.
They might also do what Honda did with the ST once. Just stop production for a year until inventories dwindle. That might mean there would be no 2010's, but there would be 2011's that were the same as the 2009's.

Yes. And if my experience in attempting to buy an '09 and then getting a good deal on an '08 overstock from Yamaha instead is any indication, then Yamaha may not want to produce or sell the expected numbers for the '09 model year until the prior year's inventory is depleted.

The expensive ignition switch issue (close to a million bucks folks), and a slowing World economy, may reduce their production and discretionary R&D budget to a Senior Citizen dribble. Present company excepted - I can still piss uphill with cheap beer onboard.

Why market a new and unproven design, and incur all the potential start-up expenses (recalls/component adjustments, accessories, support training, parts), given the projections of sales demand?

Add a cruise control option, some of the accessories offered only in Canada and Europe, maybe a better 12V buss setup, and call it a 2010 in popular colors. Yellow gets my woody, but YEMV.

Gary in Fairbanks