You're bleeding & the nearest hospital isn't near at all

[RadioHowie]

.

You guys have got me thinking. I guess it's time to update my medical kit. Here's the equipment I've always carried.

^^^^^ Civil War surgeon's kit....am I right? ^^^^^^^

Nah....that's barbecue grill set at Casa Del Stanley in AZ.

 

[BwanaDik]

Former EMT here, I have pressure pads, gauze, medical tape and duct tape, with shear style scissors, burn pads, CPR mask, tracheal intubation set (with a small package Vaseline), pack of disposable gloves, mini-multitool with a very sharp blade and a compact package of insulating blankets to round it out. All of this makes for a very small and compact package.

I think I'm equipped for most anything; between pressure pads and duct tape you can get most bleedings to stop or at least to slow enough for lot's more time; after reading other lists here I do want to look into Quikclot. EDIT: Just bought three Quikclot packs on eBay, this stuff will be part of my MC emergency pack shortly.

Any down side to Quikclot? There are a number of folks here on the board that take blood thinners for a variety of medical/heart related conditions. Does Quikclot get into the blood stream?

Obviously, stopping bleeding to death in a short period of time WAY over rides any longer term effects but probably something to at least think about.

 

[cruppelt]

Nah....that's barbecue grill set at Casa Del Stanley in AZ.

I think you mean to say that this is the "BBQ Preparation" set, right? Me thinks it would be premature to fire up the grill until you're at least 3/4 through using all them fine tools...

 

[cruppelt]

Any down side to Quikclot? There are a number of folks here on the board that take blood thinners for a variety of medical/heart related conditions. Does Quikclot get into the blood stream?

Obviously, stopping bleeding to death in a short period of time WAY over rides any longer term effects but probably something to at least think about.

From what I could gather doing some quick research on Quikclot before I ordered it, it acts purely locally, so no, it does not enter the blood stream. The first generation of this product had the problem that it reacted with a thermal runaway to any moisture, meaning people got burns on exposed sweaty skin where the Quikclot pack touched, but the newer formulas are all "cooler" acting and seem very safe to use.

I read descriptions of some cases on the emsworld forum like the one with acute femoral bleeding out of the stomach cavity, where this stuff held the clot all the way for a full thirty minutes until the guy was finally in the OR; that one made me order it immediately.

There are two other somewhat similar clotting products out there, HemCon and Celox. I found about Celox that it was potentially hard to keep on the actual wound, and that it supposedly became migratory in some cases(entering the circulation as a floating blood clotter, yikes!). HemCon is crystaline stuff that is quite a bit more money, that you sprinkle on the wound like you would sugar.

Hope this helps. In case of a riding buddy in dire need actually being on a blood thinner, having something like Quikclot is likely going to mean the difference between life and death, since without it it's going to be just that much harder to stop the bleeding.

 

[mattster31]

ok,first determine if they are canadian or not,if canadian go check out their bike for parts,if not canadianfirst pee on the wound to irrigate,then get his wallet and check out the amount of cash,if only dollar bills(aka richard and the stripper pole stash) use them to pack the blood squirting from the gaping hole left by the guardrail they impailed themselves on.pull their smitty installed cruise control wiring off the bike and tie a strand below the wound and their heart,cant shift if you loose a lower extremity(unless your a ***** riding ae freak).then call their wife and ask whats for dinner,youll be there soon.

Finally some Words of Wisdom, thanks again dj bill! Mi Hermano, we of the FJR Forum can always count on you!

great advice!! LOL

MEM, I personally just carry a few 4X4's (not the lumber haha) a couple rolls of cling wrap, bandaids, wet tape (sticks to wet skin) and a couple of triangular bandages (which can be used for everything). I don't bother with the CPR face shield. Studies have shown that the act of CPR in itself is enough to ventilate any VSA pt. There is currently a proposal for a study which will include ONLY CPR and NO VENTILATIONS. As an ACP medic I would only place a NRB over the pts face to supply oxygen......but that's for us, not the general public.....however this topic is another thread in itself.....I digress.

Getting back to the First aid kit and space on the FJR. Right now I stuff everything in a plastic bag and throw it in my side case or under the seat.....but I ran into Chris (from Carleton) when I was crossing the Crowne point ferry en-route home form NERDS. He finished (I believe he said) 63rd in this years IBR and he still had his full set up on his Feejer. His first aid kit was in a waterproof box mounted where his licence plate would be and his plate mounted on the face of that. It was a great idea and his install looked perfect. (perhaps if he reads this he might post up a pic as I'm sure he said he's on the forum). I'm going to do the same.

 

[MEM]

MEM, I personally just carry a few 4X4's (not the lumber haha) a couple rolls of cling wrap, bandaids, wet tape (sticks to wet skin) and a couple of triangular bandages (which can be used for everything). I don't bother with the CPR face shield. Studies have shown that the act of CPR in itself is enough to ventilate any VSA pt. There is currently a proposal for a study which will include ONLY CPR and NO VENTILATIONS. As an ACP medic I would only place a NRB over the pts face to supply oxygen......but that's for us, not the general public.....however this topic is another thread in itself.....I digress.

Getting back to the First aid kit and space on the FJR. Right now I stuff everything in a plastic bag and throw it in my side case or under the seat.....but I ran into Chris (from Carleton) when I was crossing the Crowne point ferry en-route home form NERDS. He finished (I believe he said) 63rd in this years IBR and he still had his full set up on his Feejer. His first aid kit was in a waterproof box mounted where his licence plate would be and his plate mounted on the face of that. It was a great idea and his install looked perfect. (perhaps if he reads this he might post up a pic as I'm sure he said he's on the forum). I'm going to do the same.

Thanks, Matt ! And to everyone else who posted up good info. I think I can toss something together now.

I would be interested in seeing Chris's setup.

If any of us are VSA, the first aid kit is likely a moot point anyway :blink:

 

[wheatonFJR]

Thanks everybody for posting up. I am going to be googling some of these things and packing them in my tank bag.

 

[mferriter]

I never go anywhere with out my superglue at the ready. It seems like I am always getting cut somewhere and if I can't get it wrapped up or am too sweaty to get any bandage to stick, I hit it with a little dab of superglue. It's the same stuff that's in dermabond, just in a non-medical package.

I haven't tried it, but there's also something called nuskin. Not sure how well it works.

I don't recommend epoxy.

 

[frito1]

.

You guys have got me thinking. I guess it's time to update my medical kit. Here's the equipment I've always carried.

If you're gonna carry all that stuff, you should probably have one of these too.

 

[wheatonFJR]

If you're gonna carry all that stuff, you should probably have one of these too.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You KNOW better than to give people on this board ideas...DON'T YOU???!!!

 

[frito1]

I don't bother with the CPR face shield. Studies have shown that the act of CPR in itself is enough to ventilate any VSA pt. There is currently a proposal for a study which will include ONLY CPR and NO VENTILATIONS.

I have no idea what Emergency Cardiac Care guidelines are used or what the standard protocols are north of the border, but current American Heart Association guidelines are:

"In the event that the victim you encounter in the out-of-hospital setting is an adult who has suddenly collapsed, your skills can be used to perform:

Conventional (30:2) CPR — breaths

combined with chest compressions

or

Hands-Only CPR — chest compressions only

Both methods have been shown to be effective in the first few minutes of an out-of-hospital adult cardiac arrest."

"Hands-Only CPR *IS NOT* recommended for:

• Unresponsive infants and children

• Victims of

– drowning

– ***trauma***

– airway obstruction

– acute respiratory diseases

– apnea, such as associated with drug overdose"

"Hands Only" is not the first, best choice, for trauma, but it is an option. To each his own, depending on your training, equipment, and level of commitment. I teach a lot of CPR, ventilation is a good thing, done appropriately, especially for traumatic injuries.

I recommend anyone following this post take a HeartSaver CPR/First Aid course. I'd be glad to do a class for anyone in my area free of charge.

 

[Old Michael]

VSA is vital signs absent?

 

[MEM]

VSA is vital signs absent?

Oui

Well done, OM

 

[Geezer]

Well, I don't carry a first aid kit.

From now on I'm going to take a nurse MEM with me.

 

[beemerdons]

If you're gonna carry all that stuff, you should probably have one of these too.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You KNOW better than to give people on this board ideas...DON'T YOU???!!!

NOTE: I had to wait until dog pile Friday, but it's well worth it!

Point in fact, frito1: If you order the Super Deluxe Anus Shaving Kit from Bustanut joker, one of these little beauties is already included in the upgraded shaver kit!

VSA is vital signs absent?

Teachers Pet!

 

[beemerdons]

Well, I don't carry a first aid kit.

From now on I'm going to take a nurse MEM with me.

Good Thinking, Greg! That's why you're "The Brains" of this outfit!

Nah....that's barbecue grill set at Casa Del Stanley in AZ.

I think you mean to say that this is the "BBQ Preparation" set, right? Me thinks it would be premature to fire up the grill until you're at least 3/4 through using all them fine tools...

Right on cruppelt, it takes a lot to dress out a burro for the BBQ!

 

[mattster31]

I don't bother with the CPR face shield. Studies have shown that the act of CPR in itself is enough to ventilate any VSA pt. There is currently a proposal for a study which will include ONLY CPR and NO VENTILATIONS.

I have no idea what Emergency Cardiac Care guidelines are used or what the standard protocols are north of the border, but current American Heart Association guidelines are:

"In the event that the victim you encounter in the out-of-hospital setting is an adult who has suddenly collapsed, your skills can be used to perform:

Conventional (30:2) CPR — breaths

combined with chest compressions

or

Hands-Only CPR — chest compressions only

Both methods have been shown to be effective in the first few minutes of an out-of-hospital adult cardiac arrest."

"Hands-Only CPR *IS NOT* recommended for:

• Unresponsive infants and children

• Victims of

– drowning

– ***trauma***

– airway obstruction

– acute respiratory diseases

– apnea, such as associated with drug overdose"

"Hands Only" is not the first, best choice, for trauma, but it is an option. To each his own, depending on your training, equipment, and level of commitment. I teach a lot of CPR, ventilation is a good thing, done appropriately, especially for traumatic injuries.

I recommend anyone following this post take a HeartSaver CPR/First Aid course. I'd be glad to do a class for anyone in my area free of charge.

Canadians have the same standard (for the general public) However, the reality of the situation is this. Most people are afraid to do anything if they come across (or witness) a VSA patient.....even if they have taken a "course". I think a great deal of that fear stems from the thought "what if I don't do it right?" (CPR)......and the underlying assumption that he/she could be sued for "doing the wrong thing".

When you think about it though, if someone is already dead............how can you make them worse? What do I tell people who may have these concerns?? "Just push on the chest until the Paramedics arrive". Why no 30:2 ?? Why confuse the issue. There is more than enough residual oxygen in the patients lungs adequate for several minutes of perfusion during CPR, because CPR (performed perfectly) will garner maybe 30% perfusion at best. This is great in an urban setting with established Paramedic service, because you won't have to worry about dong it for more than 4-6 minutes. Rural areas are different, and because mortality skyrockets for every minute a patient remains pulseless, ventilating every few minutes certainly won't hurt because again, how can you make the situation worse right? Not to mention you will need a break because CPR is tiring and it's effectiveness plummets if there aren't multiple providers available to "swap out".

Let's look at these situations you mentioned

• Unresponsive infants and children (Are they just unresponsive or truly VSA? you need to specify as neonatal resusitation is a different animal. CPR is not required for children with a pulse....even if unresponsive and/or bradycardic)

• Victims of

– drowning (There can be a low mortality with these types but it's dependent on other factors like time in the water, temperature, age of the victim)

– ***trauma*** (unless a traumatic VSA patient is lying right next to a trauma surgeon in the ER........well, you get the point, CPR is most likely fruitless, but again, there are dependent factors like "what type of trauma is it?")

– airway obstruction (there is no point in ventilating anyone until the airway is cleared. Which is a 5:1 ratio. The 1 being a simple ventilation after visual inspection to see if the airway is clear)

– acute respiratory diseases (Unless it is a family member or very close friend, do you really want to be performing ventilations on a VSA pt with a respiritory disease [sARS?])

– apnea, such as associated with drug overdose" (again, are they also VSA? or just not breathing effectively? and not to seem like a prude, but lets look at the type of person who "overdoses".........would anyone want to get near that??)



About the sudden collapse cardiac arrest you mentioned? Immediate CPR can be effective, but having a PAD (public access defibrillator) device nearby would be better.

As I said, when in doubt......Just push on the chest until the pt tells you to stop, or the Paramedic tells you to stop.

These are just my opinions of course, and in no way do I intend to influence the opinions of others.

No offence intended Frito.

Mattster

 

[Bungie]

My 2 cents, having been through 2 CPR courses and the St. Johns course 3x, seeing a countless episodes of 'Emergency' during the 70's (5cc's Ringers Lactate STAT!) and having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express several times in the last decade...

The CPR course gave different instructions each time. But basically, do what you can as their doesn't seem to be any consensus about technique for the layman, which pretty much echoes what Mattster says. If somebody is that badly off they need CPR the likely hood of you causing any more damage is pretty much nil. If you don't their probably not going to make it. Besides, in Canada, your legally rendered harmless (Good Samaritan Law) in the event you do cause more damage, at least as a commoner - most likely the same in the US as well.

All that being said, I've actually got two first aid kits on the bike. The tank bag one has a few gauze pads and band-aids and stuff, just stuff you might need handy on the road. The other is a bit more involved but sure could benefit from some of the advice in this thread. Some non-stick Sterile pads (Don't use regular pads on road rash! Experience speaking!), tape, triangular bandages, a baby roll of Saran Wrap, a small bottle of Detol and some gloves.

Having a pile of stuff that you don't know how to use is pretty much as bad as not having anything. Not saying I'm an EMT, but I the St. John's courses do teach how to assess and deal with different things, and if you asked me know what to do in such and such a case I'd just stare at you blankly, but it does come back when in the situation.

 

[MEM]

My 2 cents, having been through 2 CPR courses and the St. Johns course 3x, seeing a countless episodes of 'Emergency' during the 70's (5cc's Ringers Lactate STAT!) and having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express several times in the last decade...

All sounds good, Steve !!

Well, all except for the 5 cc's of Ringers

I have to find out about these "triangular (?) bandages" you and Mattster have ....

 

[SacramentoMike]

Having a pile of stuff that you don't know how to use is pretty much as bad as not having anything.

Kind of like my tool kit.

But I will buy a pack of those non-stick pads; I'm just carrying plain gauze ones now. One interesting thing I've heard is when giving chest compressions, some recommend letting the tune (and the beat) for "Staying Alive" run through your head. "Another One Bites the Dust" also works, but seems less appropriate.