Idea for rear sliders

Knifemaker · Jan 5, 2008

Spent a bit of time trying to figure out how to make a set of "rear sliders" or tip over guards that would, in the event of fall, help protect the side cases. As it happens, there is not alot of solid metal in the rear to bolt up some kind of bar to, and along with that you still want the rear of the bike accessable for a passenger. You also want to be able to open up the cases while they are on the bike.

Well , after looking at the area in questiion, I finally decided that instead of trying to bolt something to the single point available where the exhaust cans mount up , to instead bolt something right on to the exhaust itself.

As seen here:

https://tinyurl.com/yrkkvw

They would of course not mount onto the exhaust near the very rear, as the drawing might suggest, but would mount to the can right behind the passenger peg, in front of the side case, so the bags could still be opened. A somewhat crappy artists conception of that placement here:

https://tinyurl.com/2agfm2

A silicone or fiberglass pad would help with the possible problems of heat expansion from the exhaust and provide a good grip to keep the unit from simply spinning around the can....while protecting its finish.

They of course do not have to look exactly like I drew them, but you should be able to get the idea. Problem for me is , I do not have a machine shop at my disposal...so if anyone out there thinks this could be a worthwhile concept to pursue, feel free to blantantly steal my idea. All I ask is a set for my bike in return.

So, any thoughts?

Knifemaker

mdisher · Jan 5, 2008

If'n they aren't too ugly, this sounds like a great idea to me.

-MD

wfooshee · Jan 5, 2008

I don't think the muffler is strong enough to hold them, and of course those with aftermarket exhaust won't fit anyway.

Don't mufflers cost more than sidecases?

Knifemaker · Jan 5, 2008

wfooshee said:
I don't think the muffler is strong enough to hold them, and of course those with aftermarket exhaust won't fit anyway.
Don't mufflers cost more than sidecases?

Well , as it stands now, when your bike falls over, you scratch up the sidecase bottoms, and, the muffler. I'm not thinking that these will be of that much help in a crash at speed, but simply for tip overs at 0-2 mph. The muffler is not all that strong of course, but when you scratch a sidecase it is visualy more appearant than scratches on the muffler. Paint is soft, metal hard...

KM

Last Chance · Jan 6, 2008

Very interesting idea. Perhaps if the slider bracket were wide enough it wouldn't put too much stress on the muffler walls. I like the idea!

Cost of saddle bag = $485 each. (Per University Motors). Don't know how much a muffler is.

LC

garywayne · Jan 6, 2008

There is a guy who makes a great set for the ST1300. It is just U shaped hard rolled steel (power coated) that mounts to the 2 mounting points at the passenger footrest (not the same as the FJR). They go out past the saddlebags so with them and the GREAT built in front tip over bars the ST can go all the way over and not hurt anything. Something like that made to mount on the 2 bolts where the exhaust hanger is might work.

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14622

Gary

Checkswrecks · Jan 6, 2008

The problem is that the mufflers are just sheetmetal and you're putting a lever on them. In a tipover, I wouldn't be surprised to see damage created by these and if dropped at speed would expect these to snag something and pull the muffler off. Check out some of last year's riding photos and you can also see that these bikes can get pretty close to the mufflers and bags in a corner, too.

How about something simpler to make and that would spread the tipover load more? Keep your silicone pad idea and put a stainless muffler guard on, as is common on enduro bikes? If you can rivet or weld an inner bracket, they could be held 1/4-1/2" away from the can and fastened by industrial hose clamps that nobody would see. Here's the concept:

https://www.hondatrail70.com

For the bags, take Honda's idea and put a replaceable plastic slider at the bottom corner and maybe at the widest part. Using black or even gray delrin or even ABS would look fairly stock.

Bob

cctxfjr · Jan 6, 2008

The St's look good-my son (owns a machine shop) fabed me a set from ppolished aluminum for my FJR-They mounted from the rear axle bolt to the passenger foot peg mount (foot pegs had to be removed) they were super strong and looked good. I always rode solo so losing the pass pegs was not an issue. We looked at the muffler brackets but thought they would be very marginal for strength. However we didnt actually fab and mount one on the muffler brackets to test it.

Knifemaker · Jan 6, 2008

cctxfjr said:
The St's look good-my son (owns a machine shop) fabed me a set from ppolished aluminum for my FJR-They mounted from the rear axle bolt to the passenger foot peg mount (foot pegs had to be removed) they were super strong and looked good. I always rode solo so losing the pass pegs was not an issue. We looked at the muffler brackets but thought they would be very marginal for strength. However we didnt actually fab and mount one on the muffler brackets to test it.

Not sure how this would work...You mean the "crash bar" was mounted on one side to the axle bolt itself? so , it moved with the wheel? Wouldn't that effect the suspension?

The ST ones do look nice, but that's what the design problem is ... As the FJR only has one mounting point behind the passenger footpeg. I looked at using this point and somehow also using some part of the passenger footpeg bracket, but either it stuck out so it be in the way of a passenger, or it would not let the bag be opened while on the bike.

To me the talk of how strong the muffler itself seems moot, as both the muffler and the lower part of the side case attatch to what looks like a cast aluminum bracket jutting back from the frame. I've dropped enough bikes in my life to know cast aluminum will break much faster than any steel , so I would bet that before you tore up a muffler so badly you'd have to replace it, that this bracket would break, and the muffler would be pushed in while your sidecase bounced down the road.

The sidecase does make a nice TOG , but in any fall at speed, you are going to tear up alot of stuff that hopefully you insurance will cover..and if you have something in place that might in some way protect the passenger a bit more..that's a good thing. I really don't care if the muffler gets torn off the bike in a crash..I just want to be able to walk away from it unscathed.

The idea agian is to protect the bike , but mostly the sidecases, if the bike falls over in your garage or driveway. (seemingly a common occourance here) And , still allow the bike to carry a passenger and the have the bags open while on the bike.

The Enduro concept of adding guards to the muffler seems good, but may be high on the fugly meter. But yes, you can bolt/glue thick plastic pieces to the sides and bottom of the case itself, but many like the clean lines of the bag and even have removed the stock "bumper" and reflector off the bag..so again the meter comes into play here. I was hoping to do something that did not detract too much from the look of the bike.

KM

SkooterG · Jan 6, 2008

Interesting idea, but my personal opinion is that the mufflers would not be able to handle that load. Something would start bending. Perhaps just the mufflers themselves, but I would wager that the bracked that the mufflers mount to would be tweaked/bent, and possibly even damage to the rear subframe.

Jagermeister · Jan 6, 2008

garywayne said:
There is a guy who makes a great set for the ST1300. It is just U shaped hard rolled steel (power coated) that mounts to the 2 mounting points at the passenger footrest (not the same as the FJR). They go out past the saddlebags so with them and the GREAT built in front tip over bars the ST can go all the way over and not hurt anything. Something like that made to mount on the 2 bolts where the exhaust hanger is might work.

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14622

Gary

That could work on the FJR; perhaps mounting it to the hanger, and wrapping around the exhaust. The only problem might be saddlebag lid clearance. re-clicky Depending the design, anything protruding from the hangar bolt could prevent the lid from opening.

Knifemaker · Jan 6, 2008

SkooterG said:
Interesting idea, but my personal opinion is that the mufflers would not be able to handle that load. Something would start bending. Perhaps just the mufflers themselves, but I would wager that the bracked that the mufflers mount to would be tweaked/bent, and possibly even damage to the rear subframe.

Yep, can see that as a possibility..(that was the bracket I mentioned that was cast aluminum and would likely break...esp. if the bike was moving)

We lack data here of course. If you drop the bike part of the impact on the muffler is shared with the sidecase..how much and how severe this is, not sure. I have not heard of anyone breaking off that bracket in a zero mph fall (the side case is attached to it too ya know)

So, some one do use a favor and take your side cases off your bike and push it over, on both sides, and let us know what happens.....

KM

SkooterG · Jan 6, 2008

Well, here's one data point.

It wasn't a tip-over, but a crash. Sidebags weren't on, so the exhaust, Holeshot slip-ons in this case, took some impact forces.

Here is the result:

Just to be clear, that damage you see is from the swingarm ($$$$) and the slip-on rubbing from post-crash riding and me not fixing it soon enough. I still am not exactly sure what all got bent or tweaked. I do know that replacing the aluminum bracket, which got bent, and did not break, moved the exhaust back outboard enough so the swingarm and exhaust no longer make contact. I am pretty sure the clearance is smaller than pre-crash however. I think something is still slightly tweaked in the rear subframe. Also, when that bracket gets bent, it makes it extremly difficult, if not impossible, to mount a sidebag due to alignment issues. Don't ask me how I know.

Jagermeister · Jan 6, 2008

When I crashed last month, the right side exhaust pipe was ripped off the bracket:De-piped pic . There was no damage to the frame from this impact; the bracket bolts and underlying frame were unharmed.

Based on that experience, the exhaust bracket is indeed the weak spot (aluminum, as already pointed out). However, the bolts and frame on which the brackets hang are solid, and would probably be the ideal spot to mount a rear slider. It's just so close to the rear saddlebag, I don't know if it would allow lid clearance.

NightShine · Jan 6, 2008

Interesting concepts here, but I think you guys have lost sight of the big picture.

The bags are the rear TOGs! Merely pricey ones...

Always ride with them mounted on the bike

.

cctxfjr · Jan 6, 2008

Knifemaker said:
cctxfjr said:

The St's look good-my son (owns a machine shop) fabed me a set from ppolished aluminum for my FJR-They mounted from the rear axle bolt to the passenger foot peg mount (foot pegs had to be removed) they were super strong and looked good. I always rode solo so losing the pass pegs was not an issue. We looked at the muffler brackets but thought they would be very marginal for strength. However we didnt actually fab and mount one on the muffler brackets to test it.

Click to expand...

Not sure how this would work...You mean the "crash bar" was mounted on one side to the axle bolt itself? so , it moved with the wheel? Wouldn't that effect the suspension?

The ST ones do look nice, but that's what the design problem is ... As the FJR only has one mounting point behind the passenger footpeg. I looked at using this point and somehow also using some part of the passenger footpeg bracket, but either it stuck out so it be in the way of a passenger, or it would not let the bag be opened while on the bike.

To me the talk of how strong the muffler itself seems moot, as both the muffler and the lower part of the side case attatch to what looks like a cast aluminum bracket jutting back from the frame. I've dropped enough bikes in my life to know cast aluminum will break much faster than any steel , so I would bet that before you tore up a muffler so badly you'd have to replace it, that this bracket would break, and the muffler would be pushed in while your sidecase bounced down the road.

The sidecase does make a nice TOG , but in any fall at speed, you are going to tear up alot of stuff that hopefully you insurance will cover..and if you have something in place that might in some way protect the passenger a bit more..that's a good thing. I really don't care if the muffler gets torn off the bike in a crash..I just want to be able to walk away from it unscathed.

The idea agian is to protect the bike , but mostly the sidecases, if the bike falls over in your garage or driveway. (seemingly a common occourance here) And , still allow the bike to carry a passenger and the have the bags open while on the bike.

The Enduro concept of adding guards to the muffler seems good, but may be high on the fugly meter. But yes, you can bolt/glue thick plastic pieces to the sides and bottom of the case itself, but many like the clean lines of the bag and even have removed the stock "bumper" and reflector off the bag..so again the meter comes into play here. I was hoping to do something that did not detract too much from the look of the bike.

KM

sorry my baq we went from the top muffler mount bolt to the passenger peg mount-I have since sold bike and was going from memory (bad) I still have a picture and will post if I can figure how to do it

JamesK · Jan 6, 2008

Good idea in principle, especially if you're planning on riding on unpaved road(s). Given the location/position of the ST1300 slider it looks like it still lets the bike lean!

The muffler location while maybe protecting the paint on the side cases will likely prevent the bike from being able to do it's most basic function - lean in the corners. The mufflers for example (even the slimmer after market cans) are already close to touching when you corner on nice roads...

The FJR already has a lot of hard parts that hand down too low, this TOG would just turn the FJR in to an HD.

garauld · Jan 7, 2008

The bags are the rear TOGs! Merely pricey ones...

Not that pricey - I can repaint the lid for $75 plus return shipping...

Zorlac · Jan 7, 2008

Notice how that cable lock strategically obscures the license plate, smooth, very smooth. :derisive:

Idea for rear sliders

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