Stabil Question

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keithaba

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Last night I decided to add some stabil as I probably won't ride again for at least a month, if not more. I put the stabil in then let the engine run for 5 minutes, to get it through the system, but as the bike was sitting there, I couldn't resist taking it out for a little since it was only 38.

Would the stabil get burned up really quickly or is the whole tank treated and will be fine? I didn't know if the stabil was more dense than gas and maybe floated to the bottom, and got burnt up when I rode after that. Plus after I ran the bike, the exhaust smelled a little funky to me. I only rode for like 30 miles.

 
Ack! Don't overanalyze!

Take a deep breath...............everything is fine. Yes, the whole tank is treated. Everything is ok.

Reeeeeeeelaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax

 
Actually, folks should take EXTRA care when winterizing, even for a short period. The injectors I sent to Factory pro were in decent shape, they said, but had degraded slightly, and I'm kind of manic when it comes to maintenance, as many here might testify. Of the 4 that had sat dry for a year, one was down to 55% of flow spec, another not much better. Bad or old gas can be death to these things, and require professional cleaning rather than tank additives to restore. One tip is to try to fill the tank, with Stabil or Sea Foam added beforehand, with non-ethanol gas, which is less likely to experience the rapid degradation ethanol seems to be prone to. Actually Keithaba did it right, running the bike a while on the Stabil-treated fuel before shutting it down-this ensured the fuel system was well saturated with the treated fuel.

 
An alternative to Stabile is two stroke pre-mix oil. Add enough two stroke pre-mix to the gas to get a mixture of about 32:1 or thereabouts. Run the engine for a short while on that pre-mix and shut it down. Any fuel remaining will have a smidgen of oil in it that will coat the surface as the fuel evaporates thus preventing corrosion and/or deposits from sticking. Plus, the internal engine parts and exhaust system will get a small dose of oil film as protection. Simple and easy way to "fog" the engine for storage is to dump some two-stroke pre-mix oil into the tank for your last ride. This is extremely effective in carbureted engines for protecting the carbs as well as fuel injected engines.

 
An alternative to Stabile is two stroke pre-mix oil. Add enough two stroke pre-mix to the gas to get a mixture of about 32:1 or thereabouts. Run the engine for a short while on that pre-mix and shut it down. Any fuel remaining will have a smidgen of oil in it that will coat the surface as the fuel evaporates thus preventing corrosion and/or deposits from sticking. Plus, the internal engine parts and exhaust system will get a small dose of oil film as protection. Simple and easy way to "fog" the engine for storage is to dump some two-stroke pre-mix oil into the tank for your last ride. This is extremely effective in carbureted engines for protecting the carbs as well as fuel injected engines.
And exactly why I use Sea Foam.

 
FWIW I put Stabil in all the gas I use for my dirt machines, year round. I've had so many problems over the years with crapped up carburetors sitting idle even a short time I finally threw in the towel and put Stabil in every time I fill a gas jug. And I haven't had any crapped up carbs since. I'd highly recommend using it if you're storing for a month or more, gas being what it is these days.

 
I have had the same great luck with Stabil. Have not gotten around to Sea Foam yet. I do mix the Stabil in gas can rather than pour it in directly to the tank. Have several old bikes which I ride infrquently, and Stabil has been good to me for 10 years at least.

 
The only thing I would like to add to the already good advice here is take it for a good run to get the stabil into the injectors. Not just let it run for 5 minutes. Bike doesn't burn very much fuel idling.

 
The question I have is does Stabil degrade over time? The bottle will treat more than one tank of gas on the FJR. Is it ok to use it up over several years? I was helping a friend who was winterizing his bike and his bottle was a quite old and had definetely separated out even though it had the cap on. We used some I had brought that looked ok and was newer. Sometimes in the past I have bought a new bottle every fall when putting the bike away. Here in Canada it can sit idle for 3 - 4 months. Do I have too?

 
Stabil is good for two years after the bottle is opened (I'm guessing this is a conservative expiration date for CYA purposes). This is stated on the back of the bottle, under directions for use. Fuel is good for one year, at the recommended dosage and, per the label, if you double the dose, Stabil will keep your fuel fresh for two years. Again, this per the label on the back of the bottle.

 
Something else to consider is to top off the tank as that will reduce moisture accumulation.

Wouldn't 2 stroke premix oil possibly clog up the catylitic converters?

I use Stabil for when I put the boat away for the winter, I've never heard of Sea Foam, is that a brand name?

 
Something else to consider is to top off the tank as that will reduce moisture accumulation. I use Stabil for when I put the boat away for the winter, I've never heard of Sea Foam, is that a brand name?
+1 on both accounts. The FJR rarely sits for more than a couple weeks during the winter though, given the weather here in NM :yahoo: . Except for the last month or so that is. Much better weather for skiing than riding since Christmas.

 
An alternative to Stabile is two stroke pre-mix oil. Add enough two stroke pre-mix to the gas to get a mixture of about 32:1 or thereabouts. Run the engine for a short while on that pre-mix and shut it down. Any fuel remaining will have a smidgen of oil in it that will coat the surface as the fuel evaporates thus preventing corrosion and/or deposits from sticking. Plus, the internal engine parts and exhaust system will get a small dose of oil film as protection. Simple and easy way to "fog" the engine for storage is to dump some two-stroke pre-mix oil into the tank for your last ride. This is extremely effective in carbureted engines for protecting the carbs as well as fuel injected engines.
And exactly why I use Sea Foam.
Rad, how much sea foam do you use per tank on the FJR? I use it but don't want to over do it. Mike in Fremont, Ca.

 
Something else to consider is to top off the tank as that will reduce moisture accumulation.
Wouldn't 2 stroke premix oil possibly clog up the catylitic converters?

I use Stabil for when I put the boat away for the winter, I've never heard of Sea Foam, is that a brand name?
2 stroke oil won't clog the converter, but it will make it work pretty hard in an attempt to clean up the resulting oily exhaust. Plenty of cars that burn oil have converters, they die prematurely (overheating), but it takes a while, longer than what one tank of 2 stroke would do.

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Seafoam is Naptha and Stoddard Solvent, a very very light oil (SeaFoam makes a great penetrant). It was originally made to de-carbonize outboard motors way back when. A 2 stroke will actually run on SeaFoam alone, seen it done. I happen to have known the inventors son, Phil Fandrei, and became very familiar with the stuff at a young age. Makes a great injector cleaner thats gentle on them, and cleans the intake tract, valves, and chamber at the same time. Great engine cleaner and ring free-er when put in oil. Works well on old stuck motors when dumped through the plug hole and allowed to sit overnight-seen it done. As you can tell, I like the stuff, but only because it works and is so multi-purpose. Learn more Here.

 
An alternative to Stabile is two stroke pre-mix oil. Add enough two stroke pre-mix to the gas to get a mixture of about 32:1 or thereabouts. Run the engine for a short while on that pre-mix and shut it down. Any fuel remaining will have a smidgen of oil in it that will coat the surface as the fuel evaporates thus preventing corrosion and/or deposits from sticking. Plus, the internal engine parts and exhaust system will get a small dose of oil film as protection. Simple and easy way to "fog" the engine for storage is to dump some two-stroke pre-mix oil into the tank for your last ride. This is extremely effective in carbureted engines for protecting the carbs as well as fuel injected engines.
“Do not” use two-stroke oil in your four-stroke motor. It is not an alternative to Stabile. It does nothing to stabilize the gas (the gas will still break down just as fast as having nothing in it) All it will do is gum up your rings and carbine up the piston and spark plug. Another thing that happens is that the oil displaces the gas so for each injection to a cylinder you get less gas and end up with a slightly leaner mixture.

A two-stroke motor is a completely different animal than your four-stroke. When a fuel mixture is drawn in, on a two-stroke, it is drawn in to the underside of the piston where most of the oil is dropped out and is used to oil the rod and wrist pin bearings. Then the mixture is pushed to the top of the piston through the transfer ports where it fires. By this time it has very little oil left in it. What little oil that is still in the mix is still not a good thing even in a two-stroke motor. This is why two stroke motors are so dirty and why you probably won't see them on the market much longer.

 
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Uh....I don't think anyone is advocating running two stroke oil in their four stroke for extended/normal everday operation. A tankfull of premix for prepping the engine for storage was the recomendation and is an excellent way to "fog" the motor with oil. It coats the intake valve, piston, walls, exhaust port and exhaust valve stem and even the inside of the pipes a little if you run it long enough.

I have been prepping 4 stroke engines with two-stroke premix oil in them for over 30 years and it has always worked excellently. I have had none of the problems mentioned as a possible negative of the two stroke oil.

I have put 4 stroke motors away for as long as 5 years at one point and they were perfect inside from being prepped with two-stroke oil. I have NEVER had a carburetor problem with two stroke premix prepped engines. Never. Plus, I have never had any problem with the fuel "souring" or generating excess peroxides (that is what you smell when the fuel breaks down and sours and smells like crap) when it has two stroke oil in it.

Granted the oil in the gas will not necessarily "stabilize" the gas....but guess what....neither does Stabil no matter what their marketiers say. If you run an engine with Stabile and tear down the carb or fuel system months later you will find the oily residue of the Stabile. Just like you will find the oily residue from the two stroke oil if you had used that. The whole purpose is to prevent deposits from clogging things up...not "stabilize" the fuel. It will evaporate regardless of Stabile or pre-mix so you have to protect against the deposits.

The whole point is to provide a residual oil film on parts where the gas evaporates so as to prevent any varnish or deposits from the gas evaporating from sticking or clogging orifices. The residual oil does exactly that from the pre-mix. The residual oil film also provides protection against corrosion on any steel or aluminum parts, injector orifices, valve stems, etc....

Since many two strokes inject the oil into the crankcase directly instead of into the gasoline going into the carb it is even necessary to mix up some premix for most two strokes and put it into the tank to adequately prep them and protect the carbs. Part of the myth why people think the two stroke oil won't work as advertised. They don't realize that the carbs are running straight gasoline and not protected by the oil unless you run premix thru the tank.

The little bit of oil from the premix will not hurt the cat. Oil poisons the catalytic converter (theoretically) because of the phosphorus in the anti-wear additive package. It doesn't "clog" it or necessarily cause it to run too hot or anything. It just slowly poisons it. Slowly....like....if your engine used a quart of oil every 1000 miles you might start to notice the catalyst efficiency would start to drop after 100,000 miles. It is NOT an overnight or low mileage type of failure. Trust me, I have seen LOTS of cats run with varying levels of purposeful oil consumption and it takes a fair amount of constant oil consumption to hurt a cat. Besides, all that happens is that it starts to emit a tiny bit more. It doesn't restrict the flow or anything. If a cat melts it was from something other than oil consumption. I saw one test recently where over a gallon of oil was added to each tankful of fuel for a thousand miles. The car would smoke on startup and oil residue was actually dripping from the tailpipe. It took almost another thousand miles for the smoke and residue to clean up. Afterwards, the cat was fine and the vehicle passed emissions fine. The heavy dose of normal SM grade, non-synthetic did no harm at all.

Synthetic oil would have killed the cat and plugged it up entirely, however. Just kidding.

As far as two stroke oil "gumming up the rings...." Hmmm..... Wonder why I have never seen this one any of my (many) engines prepped with pre-mix. Wonder why it doesn't "gum" up the rings on a two stroke if it is so bad?? Fact is it doesn't and it won't. Two stroke oil is blended to be burned and thus has specific detergents in it to prevent ring belt deposits even if you ran a steady diet of it.

It is a fact that adding two-stroke oil to the gas will displace some gas and make the engine run a bit lean. We are talking about prepping the bike for storage, right, not adding premix for a track day or a run at Bonneville or something. For the purposes of prepping the bike having the mixture 4% lean with a 25:1 premix ratio will not hurt anything at all. Besides, if your O2 is hooked up and working then it will compensate while you motor along on your prep and there is no worry. 4% lean is nothing to worry about anyway unless you are running the engine at WOT continuously....and then premix is not recommended anyway.

The description of the two stroke is pretty close right up to the part where it mentions "the mixture is pushed to the top of the piston through the transfer ports where it fires. By this time it has very little oil left in it. What little oil that is still in the mix is still not a good thing even in a two-stroke motor." If the mixture has very little oil left in it by the time it gets to the chamber WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THAT OIL? Think it just builds up in the crankcase and stays there? Of course some of the oil falls out of suspension in the crankcase due to mixture motion and centrifugal force. But the mixture picks up an even amount of oil and carries it right to the chamber where it is burned and goes out the tailpipe. The chamber is always seeing the same pre-mix ratio as the gas has in it or that the oil injection is delivering. Otherwise you would have to stop and drain the oil from the crankcase occasionally.

I just took my snowmobile engine apart with over 9000 miles on it. It is a two stroke and I run a fairly "rich" oil mix on the injection setup. It averages about 35:1 over the long haul. (oil is cheap....pistons and crank bearings are a PITA to replace) The pistons looked fine. Clean, rings perfectly clean and NOT "gummed up" or stuck or anything. Very little carbon on piston or in the chamber of the head. Totally clean exhaust port valve (mine has the RAVE system). Totaly red herring to say that two stroke pre-mix will cause a problem with deposits even in a four stroke.

BTW....warsw needs to read up on the latest in two-stroke technology. They are not the dirty pollutors described. The latest of the two strokes run fuel injection injectors in the transfer ports so no fuel is put into the crankcase and the fuel is only added to the intake charge AFTER the exhaust port has closed. No HC being pushed out the exhaust due to overlapping flow from the inlet. Plus, since the crankcase mixture is not diluted by gasoline the amount of oil needed is miniscule. The oil is injected directly into the crankcase and crankcase bearings for maximum effect. Part of the crankcase main bearings are packed with grease and sealed so they are not even lubed by the pre-mix anyway. Very little to no smoke and excellent emissions and fuel economy. What is not to like? You'll see them around for a while yet in the powersports industry as they are hard to replace for power, low mass and simplicity. Especially now that they meet the 08 and 09 emissions standards for such engines.

 
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