Stabil Question

[SkooterG]

Synthetic oil would have killed the cat and plugged it up entirely, however. Just kidding.

:rofl:

As usual, waaaaaaaaay to wordy a response ............and as usual, I learned something. Thanks.

 

[Shane]

To: Jestal

From: Human

RE: We're not worthy.

:dribble:

Shane

 

[warsw]

Uh....I don't think anyone is advocating running two stroke oil in their four stroke for extended/normal everday operation. A tankfull of premix for prepping the engine for storage was the recomendation and is an excellent way to "fog" the motor with oil. It coats the intake valve, piston, walls, exhaust port and exhaust valve stem and even the inside of the pipes a little if you run it long enough.
I have been prepping 4 stroke engines with two-stroke premix oil in them for over 30 years and it has always worked excellently. I have had none of the problems mentioned as a possible negative of the two stroke oil.

I have put 4 stroke motors away for as long as 5 years at one point and they were perfect inside from being prepped with two-stroke oil. I have NEVER had a carburetor problem with two stroke premix prepped engines. Never. Plus, I have never had any problem with the fuel "souring" or generating excess peroxides (that is what you smell when the fuel breaks down and sours and smells like crap) when it has two stroke oil in it.

Granted the oil in the gas will not necessarily "stabilize" the gas....but guess what....neither does Stabil no matter what their marketiers say. If you run an engine with Stabile and tear down the carb or fuel system months later you will find the oily residue of the Stabile. Just like you will find the oily residue from the two stroke oil if you had used that. The whole purpose is to prevent deposits from clogging things up...not "stabilize" the fuel. It will evaporate regardless of Stabile or pre-mix so you have to protect against the deposits.

The whole point is to provide a residual oil film on parts where the gas evaporates so as to prevent any varnish or deposits from the gas evaporating from sticking or clogging orifices. The residual oil does exactly that from the pre-mix. The residual oil film also provides protection against corrosion on any steel or aluminum parts, injector orifices, valve stems, etc....

Since many two strokes inject the oil into the crankcase directly instead of into the gasoline going into the carb it is even necessary to mix up some premix for most two strokes and put it into the tank to adequately prep them and protect the carbs. Part of the myth why people think the two stroke oil won't work as advertised. They don't realize that the carbs are running straight gasoline and not protected by the oil unless you run premix thru the tank.

The little bit of oil from the premix will not hurt the cat. Oil poisons the catalytic converter (theoretically) because of the phosphorus in the anti-wear additive package. It doesn't "clog" it or necessarily cause it to run too hot or anything. It just slowly poisons it. Slowly....like....if your engine used a quart of oil every 1000 miles you might start to notice the catalyst efficiency would start to drop after 100,000 miles. It is NOT an overnight or low mileage type of failure. Trust me, I have seen LOTS of cats run with varying levels of purposeful oil consumption and it takes a fair amount of constant oil consumption to hurt a cat. Besides, all that happens is that it starts to emit a tiny bit more. It doesn't restrict the flow or anything. If a cat melts it was from something other than oil consumption. I saw one test recently where over a gallon of oil was added to each tankful of fuel for a thousand miles. The car would smoke on startup and oil residue was actually dripping from the tailpipe. It took almost another thousand miles for the smoke and residue to clean up. Afterwards, the cat was fine and the vehicle passed emissions fine. The heavy dose of normal SM grade, non-synthetic did no harm at all.

Synthetic oil would have killed the cat and plugged it up entirely, however. Just kidding.

As far as two stroke oil "gumming up the rings...." Hmmm..... Wonder why I have never seen this one any of my (many) engines prepped with pre-mix. Wonder why it doesn't "gum" up the rings on a two stroke if it is so bad?? Fact is it doesn't and it won't. Two stroke oil is blended to be burned and thus has specific detergents in it to prevent ring belt deposits even if you ran a steady diet of it.

It is a fact that adding two-stroke oil to the gas will displace some gas and make the engine run a bit lean. We are talking about prepping the bike for storage, right, not adding premix for a track day or a run at Bonneville or something. For the purposes of prepping the bike having the mixture 4% lean with a 25:1 premix ratio will not hurt anything at all. Besides, if your O2 is hooked up and working then it will compensate while you motor along on your prep and there is no worry. 4% lean is nothing to worry about anyway unless you are running the engine at WOT continuously....and then premix is not recommended anyway.

The description of the two stroke is pretty close right up to the part where it mentions "the mixture is pushed to the top of the piston through the transfer ports where it fires. By this time it has very little oil left in it. What little oil that is still in the mix is still not a good thing even in a two-stroke motor." If the mixture has very little oil left in it by the time it gets to the chamber WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THAT OIL? Think it just builds up in the crankcase and stays there? Of course some of the oil falls out of suspension in the crankcase due to mixture motion and centrifugal force. But the mixture picks up an even amount of oil and carries it right to the chamber where it is burned and goes out the tailpipe. The chamber is always seeing the same pre-mix ratio as the gas has in it or that the oil injection is delivering. Otherwise you would have to stop and drain the oil from the crankcase occasionally.

I just took my snowmobile engine apart with over 9000 miles on it. It is a two stroke and I run a fairly "rich" oil mix on the injection setup. It averages about 35:1 over the long haul. (oil is cheap....pistons and crank bearings are a PITA to replace) The pistons looked fine. Clean, rings perfectly clean and NOT "gummed up" or stuck or anything. Very little carbon on piston or in the chamber of the head. Totally clean exhaust port valve (mine has the RAVE system). Totaly red herring to say that two stroke pre-mix will cause a problem with deposits even in a four stroke.

BTW....warsw needs to read up on the latest in two-stroke technology. They are not the dirty pollutors described. The latest of the two strokes run fuel injection injectors in the transfer ports so no fuel is put into the crankcase and the fuel is only added to the intake charge AFTER the exhaust port has closed. No HC being pushed out the exhaust due to overlapping flow from the inlet. Plus, since the crankcase mixture is not diluted by gasoline the amount of oil needed is miniscule. The oil is injected directly into the crankcase and crankcase bearings for maximum effect. Part of the crankcase main bearings are packed with grease and sealed so they are not even lubed by the pre-mix anyway. Very little to no smoke and excellent emissions and fuel economy. What is not to like? You'll see them around for a while yet in the powersports industry as they are hard to replace for power, low mass and simplicity. Especially now that they meet the 08 and 09 emissions standards for such engines.

I'm not going to write a book just to argue all the hogwash you just posted because it is so very evident that you have very little practical experience with two-stroke motors, but you are welcome to go ahead and leave your bike full of gas and two-stroke oil and no stabile in the fuel system and try to start it up in 6 months and if you do manage to get it started go ahead and run that 6.6 gals of gas/oil mix through it and then let us know how it all worked out.

If what you say were true then that would mean you would never need to prep a two-stroke motor for storage because it would already be prepped just from normal use "wrong again"

It is true that some companies, such as Evenrude, are working very hard to prolong the use of two-stroke motors because there are some real advantages but, as sad as it is, the two-stroke motor is a dying breed and someday down the road will be only a memory.

 

[SkooterG]

Where's the popcorn?

:jerry:

warsw, ya might want to go back and read that post a bit closer. He already addressed that which you point out above................. :dntknw:

 

[Scab]

...and my favorite jestal post of all time...

OK

(jest had to mess with ya)

Took a while to find this too.

 

[warsw]

Where's the popcorn?
:jerry:

warsw, ya might want to go back and read that post a bit closer. He already addressed that which you point out above................. :dntknw:

Na...I quit... Jestal is so much better at putting his opinion down on paper I will loose every time. Even if I am right I will look like the fooooool. :dribble: Time to stop and go back to having fun. Just be careful and don't believe all you hear on the Internet.

 

[Knifemaker]

I swear by Sea Foam and would never use Stabil myself. (Of course I don't let my bike sit that long no matter how cold it gets outside)

But I put Sea Foam in the lawn mower and it starts right up every spring. I use it in my FJR every 2 or 3 tanks, and reccomend it to everyone. You can find it at most NAPA stores.

KM

 

[Windjammer]

Huh. And here I thought adding two stroke oil to gas was a sure way to make it break down faster, instead of the other way around. Got no real evidence, other than that the oil injected snowmobiles I've had seemed far less prone to spoiled fuel than the pre-mix sleds of the old days. But I suppose one could chalk that up to changes in the quality of the 2-stroke oil.

Anyhoo, I'm sold on that Sea Foam stuff. Stabil worked, but the engine it was used on always ran funny and had smelly exhaust until the Stabil was gone. Sea Foam is just the opposite, and since it makes such a good fuel system cleaner, it never gathers dust on the shelf. I use what I need for storage, and dump what's left into whatever vehicle seems to need it most. Keeps everything running tip top, spit spot!

 

[Blue Laser]

You guys have me ALL confused!!

Sea Foam or STA-BIL? STA-BIL or Sea Foam?

I bought some STA-BIL, but I don't know how

accurate I need to be with this stuff...

Anybody know? I know it's supposed to be

1 oz./2.5 gallons, so how much do I need to

add to a tankful of gas? Maybe I should get

some SeaFoam as well...hmmm...what to do,

what to do...

TIA...

Jim

 

[radman]

To: Jestal
From: Human

RE: We're not worthy.

:dribble:

Shane

 

[warsw]

Huh. And here I thought adding two stroke oil to gas was a sure way to make it break down faster, instead of the other way around.

This is true but sometimes hard to convince others unless you have been there.

Anyhoo, I'm sold on that Sea Foam stuff. Stabil worked, but the engine it was used on always ran funny and had smelly exhaust until the Stabil was gone. Sea Foam is just the opposite, and since it makes such a good fuel system cleaner, it never gathers dust on the shelf. I use what I need for storage, and dump what's left into whatever vehicle seems to need it most. Keeps everything running tip top, spit spot!

Both seem to work. Stabil just seem to be more available and is all I have used so far. The smell is definitely there. I may try the Sea Foam next year just to see how it works. It seems to get good reviews.

 

[jestal]

I'm not going to write a book just to argue all the hogwash you just posted because it is so very evident that you have very little practical experience with two-stroke motors, but you are welcome to go ahead and leave your bike full of gas and two-stroke oil and no stabile in the fuel system and try to start it up in 6 months and if you do manage to get it started go ahead and run that 6.6 gals of gas/oil mix through it and then let us know how it all worked out.
If what you say were true then that would mean you would never need to prep a two-stroke motor for storage because it would already be prepped just from normal use "wrong again"

It is true that some companies, such as Evenrude, are working very hard to prolong the use of two-stroke motors because there are some real advantages but, as sad as it is, the two-stroke motor is a dying breed and someday down the road will be only a memory.

warsw, I don't think it is hogwash. If there is something specific that you don't agree with then bring it up....otherwise we'll never get it right.

You are right, I have little practical experience with two strokes. Other than 30 years of moto-cross racing, tuning and building jet-ski motors, 25 years of snowmobiling....etc.....LOL. The large steel beam in my basement is LINED with two stroke pistons in various stages of failure from holes in them to scuffing to wrist pins pulled out, etc. from my more ill-fated two stroke tuning attempts. There were some successes along the way, though. Heck, I've even ported and polished and put bigger pistons in my two stroke week eater and leaf blowers. Not sure what part of my information regarding two strokes flies in the face of "practical experience" but I am all ears......

Actually, I am not sure who has any practical experience with two strokes or four strokes here..... ALL the two stroke engines I take apart have copious amounts of oil in the crankcase assembly and the piston skirts and moving pieces are well oiled and coated, including the exhaust ports and exhaust system. What would have one believe that a four stroke would act any differently.??

I mentioned why two strokes need to be "prepped for storage".....did you not read the whole thing before you took your toys and went home? Many/most oil injected two strokes inject the oil into the crankcase and not into the carbs so the carbs and the carb bowls are running straight gasoline and do not have an oil film protecting them when they dry out and deposits form. Certainly two strokes need to be prepped as I mentioned. That is the reason (people like warsz) do not believe in the two stroke pre-mix idea on oil injected two strokes. They need to actually put pre-mix in the tank regardless of oil injection to effect a proper prep.

Read the info again, guys. No one is saying two stroke oil will "stabilize" the fuel or anything like that. Putting some premix in the tank and running the engine for a prep before storage will just coat the fuel system, carbs, injectors, ports, etc. with a film of two stroke oil from the gas. Easy way to "fog" it to prevent deposits from gas drying out from sticking. It will not stabilise the gasoline and neither will stabile. That is just their marketing gimmick. The stabile just leaves a light oily coating on parts when the gas drys out. Take a carb apart that has stabile run thru it and see for yourself. I have. Many times. Did two the other day on my buddies sled. The stabile is just another form of oil like pre-mix that stays put in the system when the gasoline evaporates.

warsz....as far as putting pre-mix in my machine and getting it to run in the spring.... I repeat, I have done this countless times over the past 30 years. ON everything from the lawnmowers to snowblowers to garden tractors to snowmobiles to street bikes to my 502 Chevelle to the wife's new Corvette. There are at least 10 engines around my place at any given time that have been prepped with two stroke premix and are sitting in storage. Prepping with two-stroke pre-mix works flawlessly and doesn't cause any problems at all. There are a LOT of people "in the know" that prep engines this way and I have never heard of anyone having a problem from doing this. The problems you outline are all "what if's....". Tell of a real problem from prepping with two stroke pre-mix in a four stroke.

Besides, why leave 6.6 gallons of pre-mix in the tank all winter? I put a couple of gallons of premix in things, run the engine for awhile to prep it and put it in storage. Finish filling the tank with fresh fuel in the spring to dilute the pre-mix and away you go. If you think anything bad will happen you are wrong. Try it and see and prove me wrong.

By the way guys. Before you get all giddy over SeaFoam..... Take some of it and pour it into a pan and use it for parts cleaner. If it has the cleaning and solvent capabilities advertised for the engine I would assume it would make a good parts cleaner. Fact is, I tried it some time ago as a parts cleaner out of curiosity and it was pretty useless. So I am not sure how it is going to clean varnish and other deposits. SeaFoam is know as a pretty decent decarbonizer. So is water. If you pour water (slowly) thru the carb or throttle body with the engine revved up it will clean carbon out in an excellent fashion. SeaFoam is a good decarbonizer in the same way. It is just miscible in gasoline where water isn't. But I would never depend on it as a solvent or cleaner or to "stabilize" fuel. I think that users of SeaFoam are likely doing other maintenance also which is the real reason the systems stay clean and no problems develop. It isn't the SeaFoam.....

 

[SkooterG]

to the wife's new Corvette.

Yeaaaaaaaah, right. The *wife's* Corvette. Did you actually get her to believe that?

I wanna come live with you. I will be like your adopted son. Then you can talk about the *adopted son's* Z08 Corvette that he races on the weekend.

Better yet, perhaps you could buy your adopted son (me) THIS LITTLE TOY even if it was made by your arch enemy.

 

[jestal]

You don't know my wife....LOL She is very easy to please and will drive any kind of old beater car of any color that I bring home for her. As long as it is a red Corvette. The girl was driving a red 72 Corvette when I met her and she still has one today 27 years later. Many have come and gone. All red. The saying "all Corvettes are red" was made for her. Besides, she works and pays for it and she doesn't complain when I bring home my toys.

PS. She lets me drive it to change the oil and yes, I put synthetic Mobil 1 in it even though I KNOW it doesn't need it.

Ole Shel is no enemy. Ever notice what engine is in the Series I Shelby cars? That was a clandestine development project I worked on many moons ago. Still got a nice jacket autographed by Shelby from that.

 

[warsw]

warsw, I don't think it is hogwash. If there is something specific that you don't agree with then bring it up....otherwise we'll never get it right.

Ok you talked me into it. "One more time" I'll just start with this one.

You are right, I have little practical experience with two strokes. Other than 30 years of moto-cross racing, tuning and building jet-ski motors, 25 years of snowmobiling....etc.....LOL. The large steel beam in my basement is LINED with two stroke pistons in various stages of failure from holes in them to scuffing to wrist pins pulled out, etc. from my more ill-fated two stroke tuning attempts. There were some successes along the way, though. Heck, I've even ported and polished and put bigger pistons in my two stroke week eater and leaf blowers. Not sure what part of my information regarding two strokes flies in the face of "practical experience" but I am all ears......

It sounds like, if what you say is true, that we have about the same experience with two stroke motors but with different results. I too raced two stroke dirt bikes for about 30 years. Started in motocross, won two district championships in the Open A class but after about 10 years of that when I got old enough that I didn't bounce as good any more I moved into off road and desert racing. I gave that up about two years ago.

I also did all my own motor work. Never did port and polished but did clean and match. Polished ports never worked very well in a two stroke.

The one place we differ here is I didn’t seem to have all the failures you had. The only engine failure I had was when I went riding in the sand and didn't increase the jet size. I’m sure you know what happens there.

I mentioned why two strokes need to be "prepped for storage".....did you not read the whole thing before you took your toys and went home? Many/most oil injected two strokes inject the oil into the crankcase and not into the carbs so the carbs and the carb bowls are running straight gasoline and do not have an oil film protecting them when they dry out and deposits form. Certainly two strokes need to be prepped as I mentioned. That is the reason (people like warsz) do not believe in the two stroke pre-mix idea on oil injected two strokes. They need to actually put pre-mix in the tank regardless of oil injection to effect a proper prep.

I wasn't talking about oil injected two strokes. If you are putting oil in the gas and running it through the motor then “neither are you”. Plus the oil injected two stroke motors I am familiar with, inject into the intake manifold where it is atomized before entering the crankcase.

".....did you not read the whole thing before you took your toys and went home?

Oh, aren't you cute.

Easy way to "fog" it to prevent deposits from gas drying out from sticking. It will not stabilise the gasoline and neither will stabile. That is just their marketing gimmick. The stabile just leaves a light oily coating on parts when the gas drys out. Take a carb apart that has stabile run thru it and see for yourself. I have. Many times. Did two the other day on my buddies sled. The stabile is just another form of oil like pre-mix that stays put in the system when the gasoline evaporates.

I think that you need to read up on you products. Sta-bil has no oil in it. It doesn't work that way. I’m not sure where you are getting the light oily coating you are talking about but I would bet it is not from the Sta-bil.

warsz....as far as putting pre-mix in my machine and getting it to run in the spring.... I repeat, I have done this countless times over the past 30 years.

I have been there but with different results. When I was racing I had two dirt bikes. One set up for motocross and one set up for off road and desert. One was always sitting. If I left one sit for more than a few months without "stabilizer" in the tank and fuel system I would have a carb full of a jelly like gunk that would plug up everything. I would spend hours getting that crap out of everything and get the bike running again.

ON everything from the lawnmowers to snowblowers to garden tractors to snowmobiles to street bikes to my 502 Chevelle to the wife's new Corvette.

I tried running two-stroke gas in my 4-stroke lawnmower once when I was out of gas and too lazy to run into town and get some. After only two tanks, about a gal, the valves started to stick. I took the spark plug out and it was so black and oily I am not sure how it kept running. I guess we all see things differently.

Besides, why leave 6.6 gallons of pre-mix in the tank all winter? I put a couple of gallons of premix in things, run the engine for awhile to prep it and put it in storage. Finish filling the tank with fresh fuel in the spring to dilute the pre-mix and away you go. If you think anything bad will happen you are wrong. Try it and see and prove me wrong.

I will not try it to prove you wrong but if you leave your FJR sit all winter with only two gals of gas in your 6.6 gal tank you are going to end up with a rust bucket for a tank before you know it. I know you won't believe me but carry on and enjoy your ways. My .02 "I'm done" I hope.

 

[jestal]

If what I say is true....???.....LOL

Seems like with a lot of my two strokes I could never leave well enough alone and always had to modify. Fix it until it is broke...LOL The jet ski engines were the hardest. Porting led to more top end but then you had to add compression to get the low end back. Since the motor was hooked to a prop it didn't have the advantage of a clutch or a transmission. Finding the "right" combination of compression and spark advance was trial and error. Lots of holes in pistons. Ride snowmobiles long enough and you are bound to find some water in the gas you just bought leading to more holes and scuffed pistons. That is the sort of thing I always ran into with failures. Some of my own making and some just bad luck with gas and such. I stuck my Yamaha Vmax snowmobile engine about 5 times before I figured out that the factory had the jetting SO far off it was pathetic. It would stick at part throttle riding along with the factory jetting due to detonation causing the piston to expand faster than the bore due to heat rammed into it.

I think two stroke oils have changed tremendously over the years and lots of the problems reported with pre-mix turning to gum and glue were due to the oil quality or that particular oil type. I have personally never had a problem like that.

Any of the old oils that were castor oil or castor based would certainly cause terrible deposits if left in anything for any period of time. Hard to justify using those even back then and certainly no need now. Try running methanol with castor oil if you really want a mess both in the tank, in the carb and in the engine.

Two strokes are two strokes whether they are oil injected or pre-mixed. No one made a distinction in the discussion until just now.... I have personally owned "oil injected" two strokes of three distinct types: 1. Oil is injected into the gas line leading to the carbs (older Yamaha snowmobiles) so that the carbs ran "pre-mix". 2. Oil is injected into the intake port just after the carb. 3. Oil is injected into the crankcase at the main bearings for maximum effect. On the last two the carbs are obviously not running pre-mix so some sort of prep is required to protect the carbs from deposits. Any discussion of what works and what doesn't would have to clearify what type of oil injection system was being used.

I still keep track of my old 82 model V-max snowmobile (that ran the oil injection into the carbs so they were running premix) that is still being used yearly and runs well that has never had the carbs apart for cleaning and is always prepped with the premix method by default. It is still running this year after 24 seasons of riding and being put away for the summer. If that doesn't prove that the pre-mix method can work I don't know what does.

I'm sure that you can have trouble with any and every prep method out there. I still am totally confident recommending using a quality two stroke oil pre-mixed in the fuel of a four stroke engine to prep it for storage.

I prepped and parked my CBX motorcycle 6 years ago by running the tank with two gallons of premix for 40 miles or so, running the carbs dry and then draining them completely. It has been sitting since. I went down to the basement a few minutes ago and took the gas cap off and looked and smelled. Gas smells like gas. Seems fine with the pre-mix oil still sitting there in it. Looked in the tank with a flashlight. No rust. Same with my XS1100 that has been sitting similarily for 4 years. The FJR tank looks fine inside also but it has only been sitting for three months. The two stroke oil will also coat the inside of the tank with a little oil film that stays and protects it. But that is just my experience. I also popped the bowl off the carb on my ice racer out of curiosity. Two stroke Honda Elsinore flat track motor. It has been "retired" for almost 10 years and is mainly a decoration at this point. It was just run dry on premix and left to sit. After 10 years the float bowl and carb looks perfect inside, light coat of oil from the premix, that's it. I don't know what you guys are doing to grow green munge inside your twostroke engines but quite using that oil.

 

[Spedboy]

Man, as a lurker, I love it when people argue with the J-man. It's like watching a high-speed train full of clowns wreck. Sad but funny. :lol:

 

[warsw]

If what I say is true....???.....LOL
Seems like with a lot of my two strokes I could never leave well enough alone and always had to modify. Fix it until it is broke...LOL The jet ski engines were the hardest. Porting led to more top end but then you had to add compression to get the low end back. Since the motor was hooked to a prop it didn't have the advantage of a clutch or a transmission. Finding the "right" combination of compression and spark advance was trial and error. Lots of holes in pistons. Ride snowmobiles long enough and you are bound to find some water in the gas you just bought leading to more holes and scuffed pistons. That is the sort of thing I always ran into with failures. Some of my own making and some just bad luck with gas and such. I stuck my Yamaha Vmax snowmobile engine about 5 times before I figured out that the factory had the jetting SO far off it was pathetic. It would stick at part throttle riding along with the factory jetting due to detonation causing the piston to expand faster than the bore due to heat rammed into it.

I think two stroke oils have changed tremendously over the years and lots of the problems reported with pre-mix turning to gum and glue were due to the oil quality or that particular oil type. I have personally never had a problem like that.

Any of the old oils that were castor oil or castor based would certainly cause terrible deposits if left in anything for any period of time. Hard to justify using those even back then and certainly no need now. Try running methanol with castor oil if you really want a mess both in the tank, in the carb and in the engine.

Two strokes are two strokes whether they are oil injected or pre-mixed. No one made a distinction in the discussion until just now.... I have personally owned "oil injected" two strokes of three distinct types: 1. Oil is injected into the gas line leading to the carbs (older Yamaha snowmobiles) so that the carbs ran "pre-mix". 2. Oil is injected into the intake port just after the carb. 3. Oil is injected into the crankcase at the main bearings for maximum effect. On the last two the carbs are obviously not running pre-mix so some sort of prep is required to protect the carbs from deposits. Any discussion of what works and what doesn't would have to clearify what type of oil injection system was being used.

I still keep track of my old 82 model V-max snowmobile (that ran the oil injection into the carbs so they were running premix) that is still being used yearly and runs well that has never had the carbs apart for cleaning and is always prepped with the premix method by default. It is still running this year after 24 seasons of riding and being put away for the summer. If that doesn't prove that the pre-mix method can work I don't know what does.

I'm sure that you can have trouble with any and every prep method out there. I still am totally confident recommending using a quality two stroke oil pre-mixed in the fuel of a four stroke engine to prep it for storage.

I prepped and parked my CBX motorcycle 6 years ago by running the tank with two gallons of premix for 40 miles or so, running the carbs dry and then draining them completely. It has been sitting since. I went down to the basement a few minutes ago and took the gas cap off and looked and smelled. Gas smells like gas. Seems fine with the pre-mix oil still sitting there in it. Looked in the tank with a flashlight. No rust. Same with my XS1100 that has been sitting similarily for 4 years. The FJR tank looks fine inside also but it has only been sitting for three months. The two stroke oil will also coat the inside of the tank with a little oil film that stays and protects it. But that is just my experience. I also popped the bowl off the carb on my ice racer out of curiosity. Two stroke Honda Elsinore flat track motor. It has been "retired" for almost 10 years and is mainly a decoration at this point. It was just run dry on premix and left to sit. After 10 years the float bowl and carb looks perfect inside, light coat of oil from the premix, that's it. I don't know what you guys are doing to grow green munge inside your twostroke engines but quite using that oil.

I know, Iknow, You are right. It is just the rest of the world that is wrong. I think I will go with the rest of the world and you can go any way that makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

BTW the two stroke oil I used is still one of the leading oils on the market today. Nothing has changed.

 

[jestal]

It's not whether I'm right or wrong.....it is just hard for me to understand the dramatic differences in people's experience with similar products and situations. Not to say it didn't happen different ways but I'm always looking for the real reason behind the differences in the experience so as to better understand how the stuff works. Often the driving force is not the two stroke premix (or whatever) but some other outside influence that tainted the experience with a particular product or procedure. Strange.....

 

[warsw]

It's not whether I'm right or wrong.....it is just hard for me to understand the dramatic differences in people's experience with similar products and situations. Not to say it didn't happen different ways but I'm always looking for the real reason behind the differences in the experience so as to better understand how the stuff works. Often the driving force is not the two stroke premix (or whatever) but some other outside influence that tainted the experience with a particular product or procedure. Strange.....

Strange indeed.