KrZy8 Gen2 - Charging Circuit

Summary -
The 8 AWG marine wire isn't needed, 10 AWG is optimal. Yes, you can run larger wire, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. The weak link still *appears* to be the connector. KrZy8 is running strong, charging wise, more than 600 miles after the 'fix'.

LAF, get the harness from Jack at roadstercycle.com, with 50 amp breaker, install and be happy. Plug n' Play.

Wrap the wire with some kind of protector... I used Napa asphalt loom. Cheap, durable, a good fix.

If that doesn't work, (it will!) then go for more...

Click to expand...

Been noticing max VDC decay on 8500 radar detector / voltage meter.

Hmm.. getting ready to leave on fairly decent CBA ride to Castlegar, BC.

Maybe I should test just how good/bad this potential problem is?

No Load

Idle VDC = 13.2

5000 rpm = 13.5 vdc

HID Lights On

Idle VDC = 11.8

5000 rpm = 12.3

Funny thing is, last week, taking a fairly long ride, 120 miles each way, I occasionally saw the desired 14.3, 14.5 VDC..anyway,

Hmmm. Maybe the stock stator, at ~150k miles has finally started to decay?

I have a 5k mile stator from an 08 sitting here.

Do the swap.

No real difference in readings.

Any chance it's as simple as a failing battery dragging the charging circuit down? It's at least 3 years old, ~40k miles.

Or is it going to be just my luck that the crashed engine that had road rash on the alternator cover took a hit hard enough to de-magnitize the rotor?

It sure seems like my 150k mile-non-crashed-engine 'sucks' the stator in place much firmer than the 'new' 8k crashed engine..

I'll throw a new battery at it tomorrow, don't mind spending the bucks. Hopefully the 'batteries are us' peeps have one for the FJR.

Funny thing, the OEM battery I replaced 'just because'. It's been working flawlessly in a Sears riding mower...

I am waaay open for relevant suggestions and ideas..

Thanks In Advance...

Castlegar awaits in balance..

DC, you're lucky to have gotten 150k out of your Stator, I average around 65k. Ionbeam has previously posted a number of excellent suggested tests (as you'd expect from Alan) you can run on the various parts of the charging system, so would suggest searching them out.

From memory, they included checking the Stator at the 3 AC wires coming into the R/R, the expected Voltage with & without load from the R/R, impermanence check b/w the wires at the R/R and the Batt +ve terminal, etc. You should also check that the pins in the R/R plug are making a good connection. In checking mine recently during the R/R swap I found that the two pins for the +ve & -ve were quite loose inside. The plug is pretty tight fitting so it's hard to tell whether the pins actually are a bit loose. I confirmed my suspicions by plugging in a spare spade connector into each of the plug pins to see how tight/loose they were. If, like me you find that some of the pins are a bit sloppy fitting you can pull apart the connectors and squish them back down...

I've also in the ~140k miles on my '07 had to replace two R/Rs and in at least one case the readings resembled yours just before the R/R took a dump. Murphy's law suggests that this will happen in the most remote place and at the most inconvenient time, so I would advise swapping out the R/R, just because. My last one died with practically no warning other then the above mentioned fluctuations in the Voltage for less than one day before it was done. By this I mean the bike suddenly stops charging and given how thirsty the FJR is for power you're pretty screwed in terms of how far you can go before the bike cuts out even with the headlight fuse out...

The newest model R/R for the GenII FJR is the FH020AA, which replaces the FH012AA unit originally installed on the GenII FJR.

SHINDENGEN MOSFET FH020AA REGULATOR/RECTIFIER KIT REPLACES FH012AA

The problem is further complected because most places don't carry these in stock despite the fact that it's used on a number of different bikes.

Throw a real voltmeter on the battery. Do not go buy what that one says.

Case in point. I've got a Datel mounted up directly to the battery (which will show true voltage, wiring it up to some hot lead after the ignition switch will show something less than true voltage). Even with a single switch between it and the battery, it will sometimes read low by about a half a volt. If I flip the switch, back up to 14.2-1.4.4 volts.

Bungie said:

Throw a real voltmeter on the battery. Do not go buy what that one says.

Case in point. I've got a Datel mounted up directly to the battery (which will show true voltage, wiring it up to some hot lead after the ignition switch will show something less than true voltage). Even with a single switch between it and the battery, it will sometimes read low by about a half a volt. If I flip the switch, back up to 14.2-1.4.4 volts.

Click to expand...

+1, forgot to mention that the 8500 will show about +0.5V higher than a Datel, I have both on and see that all the time. It will however not explain the rather dramatic fluctuations in the Voltage readings DC observed.

As mentioned above, don't go by the Passport voltmeter. I made that mistake for a long time. Get yourself a proper voltmeter. Either a Datel for the bike, or a DVM for doing checks like you need to right now.

Just blindly changing the stator without proper testing to isolate what is actually wrong? Shame on you. You should know better. BTW, I had my original one still in the DOW at 226,000 miles and was working fine. Don't know what JamesK does to abuse his? Very little reports of stators on the FJR going bad.

You are overthinking this. De-magnitize the rotor? WTF?

If it's not your stator, it's most likely your Regulator/Rectifier. Ionbeam has made some excellent posts in other threads on the various checks you need to do with a DVM to narrow down what is wrong. Do a bit of searching and see if you can find some of those.

And the best advice I can give: Get rid of that POS Gen II and get yourself and electrically reliable Gen I!

Listen to these guys, Don. Don't use the passport voltmeter. It's only there for entertainment purposes. Mine shows all kinds of crazy numbers when the Datel (wired to battery) is rock solid.

take the 08 stator with you to Rays and swap it there.....and WTF did you take it out in the first place?

R

Thanks for the tips guys. :yahoo:

Should have mentioned that my Fluke 87, calibrated, as measured across battery terminals, matched the 8500 to +/- 0.1 VDC.

SkooterG, yeah, should have done tests, but it seemed logical and fairly easy, and I had all spare parts needed.. (low mileage stator, gasket)

From the site JamesK linked above..

Battery condition is important. No regulator can make up for a bad or weak battery.

If in doubt charge your battery and have it load tested, or simply replace it.

ALWAYS START WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY

me thinks I'll throw a new batt in. I'm due anyway..

Once again, thanks guyz!

Fairlaner said:

take the 08 stator with you to Rays and swap it there.....and WTF did you take it out in the first place?

R

Click to expand...

R, when we transplanted engines, the old 150k OEM stator went back in due to the rashed alt cover on the new engine and time constraints.

Last night I swapped stators, e.g. the 08, 5k mile stator is in now,with same very similar, albeit slightly improved vdc readings..

You still have that '06 rotor? That may come in handy if you think the '08 one is weak, try swapping them.

There are some line to line AC voltage measurements you can make on the stator output to determine whether the problem is the generator or the R/R. They're in the previously alluded to post by ionbeam.

Battery first though. I agree.

SkooterG said:

You are overthinking this. De-magnitize the rotor? WTF?

And the best advice I can give: Get rid of that POS Gen II and get yourself an electrically reliable Gen I!

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+1, Gunny; Words of Wisdom from SkootyG, Bravo!

I would check AC output at the stator wiring. I'm not sure of the readings but should be around 40-60 volts . If thats ok then it's the R/R.

I'll check the stealer up here and see if they have one just in case.

There is always the zuk or the harley :angry2:

dcarver said:

Thanks for the tips guys. :yahoo:

Should have mentioned that my Fluke 87, calibrated, as measured across battery terminals, matched the 8500 to +/- 0.1 VDC.

SkooterG, yeah, should have done tests, but it seemed logical and fairly easy, and I had all spare parts needed.. (low mileage stator, gasket)

From the site JamesK linked above..

Battery condition is important. No regulator can make up for a bad or weak battery.

If in doubt charge your battery and have it load tested, or simply replace it.

ALWAYS START WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY

me thinks I'll throw a new batt in. I'm due anyway..

Once again, thanks guyz!

Click to expand...

Aye Carumba! There you go SWAGing again! TEST the battery with your fluke! What's the at rest voltage? What does it read when cranking? Though possible, I doubt it's your battery. You need to find out ASAP WHAT is wrong so you can order parts. I am betting it's the R/R.

Couple of updates..

1. Battery Plus has model XTA14B-BS for 90 bucks, in stock, charged, avail.
   
2. Commute in this chilly AM VDC read 13.9 to 14.1 'house load only' - up about .5 vdc from previous days
   
3. If batt doesn't cure it, will check output connections from RR via Alan's posts
   
4. If all good there will check ACV out from stator
   
5. Compilation of Ionbeam's tips here
   
6. Local dealer wants 200 USD
   
7. Moto-Electrix via ebay wants 100 USD
   
8. Considering possibility of shipping new RR, if needed, to FjRays or even Castlegar as back up plan... sent email to Moto-Electrix...
   
9. I'd *rather* ride an FJR to an FJR event
   
10. It's a new day and even though have little sleep, things are looking mo bettah!
    

SkooterG said:

dcarver said:

Thanks for the tips guys. :yahoo:

Should have mentioned that my Fluke 87, calibrated, as measured across battery terminals, matched the 8500 to +/- 0.1 VDC.

SkooterG, yeah, should have done tests, but it seemed logical and fairly easy, and I had all spare parts needed.. (low mileage stator, gasket)

From the site JamesK linked above..

Battery condition is important. No regulator can make up for a bad or weak battery.

If in doubt charge your battery and have it load tested, or simply replace it.

ALWAYS START WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY

me thinks I'll throw a new batt in. I'm due anyway..

Once again, thanks guyz!

Click to expand...

Aye Carumba! There you go SWAGing again! TEST the battery with your fluke! What's the at rest voltage? What does it read when cranking? Though possible, I doubt it's your battery. You need to find out ASAP WHAT is wrong so you can order parts. I am betting it's the R/R.

Click to expand...

I just LOVE irritating you, Greggie!

I did test battery with Fluke.

At rest = 12.7 vdc

Cranking = don't know. This new engine starts much faster than old...barely even 1 crankshaft revolution and it's running.

12.7 is a bit low for a fully charged battery. Should be in the 12.8 to 13.0 range. Most of mine (I currently have several) are usually in the 12.90+ range when fully charged at rest (haven't been charged for at least 24 hours).

But that low reading could be due to your flaky charging system, and not indicative of a bad battery.

SkooterG right. Not battery.

Ok then, troubleshooting data.

1. No apparent voltage drop from RR output wiring to battery. Battery voltage as measured across posts equals voltage measured across RR output terminals.
   
2. Stator resistance terminals 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 all 0.2 ohms - in spec.
   
3. Stator VAC, 3.5k rpm, 67, 69, 69 - in spec.
   
4. Disconnected regulator output voltage at idle = 15.5 Vdc Curios.
   
5. 15.1 Vdc at RR output disconnected, 3.5k rpm Curios.
   
6. Connected RR back up, 13.1, 13.4 Vdc at battery. Arrgh. Was hoping cleaning RR stator connectors was the magic trick.
   
7. Thinking perhaps some circuit was heavily loading, pulled all fuses 1 by one. No change.
   
8. Measured parasitic battery current draw, 200 uAmps
   
9. Measured VDC across battery unloaded then with key on, 200 mVdc drop. Not bad.
   

I'm leaning toward the problem being a failing RR when under load. I see Yamaha has a superseded part number, diodes replaced with MosFets.

Yamaha dealer wants 200 USD. Found exact same unit, new, 100 USD on FleaBay.

You peeps agree? Any other testing I should do before spending the bucks?

Now then, do I chance the FJR on a 2,600 mile ride in this condition?

IMHO, the reason for the load/no-load difference is a failing R/R. I would order the $100 unit and at the least carry it with me. The swap is quick and simple, but getting your hands on one takes time and/or will cost you more from a stealer if by some miracle he happens to have one in stock.

Like I said, when the R/R goes it just goes, and than you're screwed, so I'd definitely get it replaced or have the spare on hand.