KrZy8 Gen2 - Charging Circuit

[dcarver]

It's the Electra Glide using the electronic wormhole in Creston to suck life out of the FJR.

Jealousy is a terrible thing!

Truthfully, the UltraClassic has been much less trouble than the FJR..

 

[RadioHowie]

It's the Electra Glide using the electronic wormhole in Creston to suck life out of the FJR.

Jealousy is a terrible thing!

Truthfully, the UltraClassic has been much less trouble than the FJR..

Really??? How many times have you bounced the Ultra off the side of a deer???

 

[weekend rider]

DC it seems you have just about checked everything relating to your problem and still come up with no rhyme or reason for this problem.

I was checking my repair manual for more ideas.the one area that has not been mentioned is the rectifier. I do not know how to check nor does it say in the book. Its replace. That leads me to believe there might be a diode that is weak and going out and only shows under load. Other than that it now becomes a search mission . From my service manual 14 volts at 5000 rpm , stator coil resitance 0.15 to 0.23 at 68 degrees F check the white leads there are 3 check 1 to2 than 1 to 3 do not check 2 to 3, Constant voltage chargers are not suitable for charging MF batteries. Charge and let stand for 30 minutes than check voltage needs to be 12.8 if it is 12.7 or lower battery not fully charged, charging voltage from the charger should be 16 to 17 volts

Let us all know what you find weekend rider

 

[Fred W]

Truthfully, the UltraClassic has been much less trouble than the FJR..

How many miles you got on the Harley? And, how much trouble had you had on the FJR when it had that many miles on it?

PS - the rectifier is part of the R/R (Rectifier/Regulator) that Don just replaced.

 

[dcarver]

The Ultra only has 128k, the biggest problem, electrically, on it has been grounds. HD runs a grounding bus, cheaply made, but easy fix. And no deer strikes with the Ultra!

I'm gonna post what Ionbeam had in a different thread, so as to keep all good troubleshooting info on this thread, for future reference for the next peep...

Measuring the current on the red wire leaving the R/R the nominal operating current should be ~20 amps (measured on my Gen 1 using a clamp-on amp probe).
When you back-probe the R/R Red and Black wires with the connector connected what do you see for a voltage? If you see 14.2-14.5 volts at the R/R the voltage drop will either be a crimp on a wire or terminal resistance where the R & B wires connect at the starter relay. If the voltage really is ~13.5 at the R/R you are indeed looking at either the battery or high current draw.

Clamp-on amp probe:

Amp reading with all accessories on, except PIAAs. At this point my Datel was showing 13.5 volts across the battery.

 

[dcarver]

Just ordered an AC/DC clamp on ammeter..

 

[Pepperell]

The positive path appears to be ok. I'd be looking at the negative (ground) path real closely.

 

[JamesK]

Just ordered an AC/DC clamp on ammeter..

I'd love to get one but damn, those things are pricey. Googling an AC/DC clamp on ammeter is see prices for the Flukes in the $200-$300+ range? Does Horrible Fright sell one for a more reasonable $?

 

[ionbeam]

I'd love to get one but damn, those things are pricey. Googling an AC/DC clamp on ammeter is see prices for the Flukes in the $200-$300+ range? Does Horrible Fright sell one for a more reasonable $?

TPI A250 $53.44 @ Digikey. I bench tested my A250 amp probe in an engineering test lab using a 5 1/2 digit bench DMM and it works quite good for what it is. It is plenty good for automotive troubleshooting and household wiring. My house was a barn ~120 years ago and when it was converted to a house the wiring and breaker box were evolutionary; the wire runs were not planned and breaker currents were not balanced. The amp probe made it easy to check each breaker for loads and trace wires. The 400 amp scale is good enough to let you monitor the cranking current of just about any car or truck. It makes troubleshooting a starter problem a snap.

 

[dcarver]

Arrgh. Looked for the A250 couldn't find it and unable to discern the first character from your pix, Alan.

Ended up with this, has smaller jaws for smaller projects like motobikes.

No troubleshooting last night, too hot in shop, 108F. :huh:

 

[kaitsdad]

No troubleshooting last night, too hot in shop, 108F. :huh:

Wuss. Ice cubes in your jock strap, works every time.

 

[dcarver]

No troubleshooting last night, too hot in shop, 108F. :huh:

Wuss. Ice cubes in your jock strap, works every time.

By CBA definition, I am the wuss king! Hoping to hear back from Barry airhead, to see if I can borrow his tank. If not will ask you to ship fuel pp, Hal! Great offer, I am lucky to have such great friends!

 

[Chuck35]

Arrgh. Looked for the A250 couldn't find it and unable to discern the first character from your pix, Alan.

Ended up with this, has smaller jaws for smaller projects like motobikes.

No troubleshooting last night, too hot in shop, 108F. :huh:

I like the looks of that meter. I couldn't find it on the aforementioned site. link please?

 

[dcarver]

Arrgh. Looked for the A250 couldn't find it and unable to discern the first character from your pix, Alan.

Ended up with this, has smaller jaws for smaller projects like motobikes.

No troubleshooting last night, too hot in shop, 108F. :huh:

I like the looks of that meter. I couldn't find it on the aforementioned site. link please?

Here you go Chuck!

 

[Chuck35]

Thanks for the link. I put it on my wish list, as I am farkle poor atm.

Now wtf is the mailman and the ups guy?

 

[dcarver]

Thanks for the link. I put it on my wish list, as I am farkle poor atm.

Now wtf is the mailman and the ups guy?

Welcome Chuck, good luck!Edit -

I'd rather spend money on tools than a dealer... So whenever $$ allow, I do. So far, fjrforum peeps and I have done a complete chassis rebuild and engine swap too. For far less money than any dealer...

 

[dcarver]

Did some troubleshooting last night and took video of testing results..

And here are those results in a table. Not sure what all this means yet, as in what values are acceptable or not..

(apologies for sending you off to the CandyButtAssociation site, but I can't get tables to post nicely here..)

Some observations:

1.  
   
2. Voltage output is higher at idle than at 5k rpm. I would have thought output should rise with rpm?
   
3. I have 0.7 to 0.9 ohms resistance from RR output, red wire, and power fuse hot side. Meter lead resistance compensated - .9 ohms sounds kind of high, not sure though.
   
4. Voltage drop between RR output and battery terminals is less essentially zero with key off.
   
5. Voltage drop between RR output and battery terminals is 0.4 vdc when key is on, engine off.
   
6. Voltage drop between RR output and battery terminals varies from 0.6 to 0.9 Vdc, engine and fans running.
   
7. RR current output is ~25 amps, with greatest output at idle.
   

Has anyone else noticed greater output at idle rather than 5k rpm?

 

[Fred W]

Well, apples and oranges (because I have a 1st gen with a different alternator) but. it is the same at idle and at speed (14.0-14.2V) unless I put a big load on it, then it seem a tad bit higher V at speed.

But wait... what is this "engine and fans running?"

You haven't been making these measurements with the fans running, have you? Because if you have, that may be why your voltage is low. My fans almost never run, but when they do the voltage does dip a little.

 

[dcarver]

But wait... what is this "engine and fans running?"

You haven't been making these measurements with the fans running, have you? Because if you have, that may be why your voltage is low. My fans almost never run, but when they do the voltage does dip a little.

Only one test done with fans running, at the tail end of last nights testing. It was hot in shop, 108F, and after 4 or so tests, the fans kicked in. I've been careful to perform all tests with as identical as possible load conditions, e.g. all ancillary farkle circuits removed, no fans, lo beam head light, etc.

 

[Geezer]

TPI A250 $53.44 @ Digikey. I bench tested my A250 amp probe in an engineering test lab using a 5 1/2 digit bench DMM and it works quite good for what it is. It is plenty good for automotive troubleshooting and household wiring. My house was a barn ~120 years ago and when it was converted to a house the wiring and breaker box were evolutionary; the wire runs were not planned and breaker currents were not balanced. The amp probe made it easy to check each breaker for loads and trace wires. The 400 amp scale is good enough to let you monitor the cranking current of just about any car or truck. It makes troubleshooting a starter problem a snap.

I am hesitant to correct Dr. Ionbeam, but I think you really want the TPI A256 rather than the A250. If I read the spec's right, the A250 is only good for AC while the A256 goes both ways.