06 Needs New FI Map

[SQUIDO]

keep us posted,im planning to do same thing on my o6.

 

[Warchild]

I do find (yes, I know I'm just a "FNG", that there is very little tolerance by some, (Yes, it seems to be the some "bad actors".). We can't all be really special people such as engineers or brain surgeons, or quantum physicists, but come-on, we have a brain and we do have common sense.

Yes, you do. This is perhaps among the best posts I've seen on this subject.

And welcome to the forum, LastChance!

I've been holding off wading into this topic with both feet until I have had the time to thoroughly evaluate the complaints on the 2006 FJR. I have recently done this with IronMaiden's bike, since I had it a few days to install her new PHID lamps.

So let me state my position on this matter now:

Those who are complaining about the abrupt 2006 throttle are [SIZE=18pt]CORRECT!!![/SIZE]

Yamaha has most definitely fucked away the throttle re-design on the 2006 bikes, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever!

I'm going to look into this a lilttle bit more, because it really is a bad situation. I am discouraged that Yamaha would "fix" something that really wasn't that broken to begin with... but it DAMN SURE is broken now! :angry2:

 

[mdisher]

Where does the class action law suit line start for us 06 owners?

I want my throttle fixed and my ODO replaced with actual mileage dammit!

[Didn't Fred have a reasonable solution for the throttle issue? Though mine really isn't all that hateful]

 

[Warchild]

Where does the class action law suit line start for us 06 owners?

The moment that happens is the moment I abandon my research on this issue, and will back up Yamaha to the hilt in fighting any legal action against them. I'll turn over everything I have to help Yamaha defeat a class action suit.

That's how strongly I feel about going to the lawyers to solve this problem, or any problem with the bike, quite frankly.

 

[Scab]

Far be it for me to be the voice of reason, but... I would seem from a relative newbie point of view that something here is just a little off center. There would appear to be a lot of bashing the newbs for issues that don't apply to the bike you own. Whatever was discussed yesterday, discounted yesterday, solved yesterday, etc., may or may not be applicable today. Yes, the '06 is the same bike, but it is not. I read of concensus building to aid the resolution of issues but how exactly do you propose that happen when newbs are strongly encouraged not to voice them. Hell, I don't have an '06 so I REALLY can't say what they are or are not experiencing.

Lately, every newb that makes a comment or voices a concern is treated like he/she is stupid, handed an over-flowing cup of "shut-the-f%$k-up" and told to do a search. What happened?

So, thanks Warchild for riding an '06. Perhaps more of this can happen regionally. Maybe some more of the '03, '04, '05 owners can hook up with the '06 owners and do some more real comparisons, build some real information.

Anyway, I'll go sip from my cup of "shut-the-f%$k-up" now.

 

[SkooterG]

Anyway, I'll go sip from my cup of "shut-the-f%$k-up" now.

Good idea! :lol:

Know what I am getting sick of? The constant accusations that newbs are being mistreated and their input is not valued. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not as prevalent as many are whining it to be.

So I tell you what, when somebody sees a newb being mistreated (even by me), PM me, and I will take an as objective look as I can at it.

 

[Scab]

Deal.

 

[KYFJR]

I do find (yes, I know I'm just a "FNG", that there is very little tolerance by some, (Yes, it seems to be the some "bad actors".). We can't all be really special people such as engineers or brain surgeons, or quantum physicists, but come-on, we have a brain and we do have common sense.

Yes, you do. This is perhaps among the best posts I've seen on this subject.

And welcome to the forum, LastChance!

I've been holding off wading into this topic with both feet until I have had the time to thoroughly evaluate the complaints on the 2006 FJR. I have recently done this with IronMaiden's bike, since I had it a few days to install her new PHID lamps.

So let me state my position on this matter now:

Those who are complaining about the abrupt 2006 throttle are [SIZE=18pt]CORRECT!!![/SIZE]

Yamaha has most definitely fucked away the throttle re-design on the 2006 bikes, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever!

I'm going to look into this a lilttle bit more, because it really is a bad situation. I am discouraged that Yamaha would "fix" something that really wasn't broken to begin with... but it DAMN SURE is broken now! :angry2:

WC - I am very curious as to what you come up with. I came from an '03 to the '06 so I know there is a huge difference in throttle abruptness. I've ordered a PCIII because I thought she is running too lean (she often stalls in the first 10 minutes of operation as well) but it is still on backorder until the middle of the month. I am waiting to do any of the other mods until I try the PCIII, but if you have any other recommendations besides the ones listed above, please let me know.

Thanks....

 

[Ignacio]

Lately, every newb that makes a comment or voices a concern is treated like he/she is stupid, handed an over-flowing cup of "shut-the-f%$k-up" and told to do a search. What happened?

Is there a different standard? Absolutely. A newb saying in essence, 'Yamaha got something wrong, is patently obvious, they're stupid, and they should be sued.' is going to get a totally different response from me than a regular that has built street cred. and says, 'There does appear to be something wrong, we should try and help Yamaha find the problem, encourage them to fix it, and never utter the L word as a possible solution.'

Those that tend to follow the former scenario will and should continue to be grilled.

Interesting observations Warchild. You thinking it's a mechanical issue with the throttle system design, an ECU mapping issue, or something else? Mind you, I know it's not definititive yet, but getting the conversation started as something this community might be able to contribute towards resolution is a good one.

 

[tripletango]

I do find (yes, I know I'm just a "FNG", that there is very little tolerance by some, (Yes, it seems to be the some "bad actors".). We can't all be really special people such as engineers or brain surgeons, or quantum physicists, but come-on, we have a brain and we do have common sense.

Yes, you do. This is perhaps among the best posts I've seen on this subject.

And welcome to the forum, LastChance!

I've been holding off wading into this topic with both feet until I have had the time to thoroughly evaluate the complaints on the 2006 FJR. I have recently done this with IronMaiden's bike, since I had it a few days to install her new PHID lamps.

So let me state my position on this matter now:

Those who are complaining about the abrupt 2006 throttle are [SIZE=18pt]CORRECT!!![/SIZE]

Yamaha has most definitely fucked away the throttle re-design on the 2006 bikes, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever!

I'm going to look into this a lilttle bit more, because it really is a bad situation. I am discouraged that Yamaha would "fix" something that really wasn't that broken to begin with... but it DAMN SURE is broken now! :angry2:

Phew I thought I was going nuts. Glad to see we are approaching a consensus! Take the problem and then transpose an unengageable clutch when underway as with the AE, now see why I say starting in second on slow speed stuff make some sense!

 

[markjenn]

I go ride my Guzzi and the throttle is light as a feather and the power delivery is smooth and torquey. This proves it can be done!

Getting smooth low-speed fueling on a light-flywheeled, 130-hp inline-four and a heavy-flywheeled, 60-hp v-twin are two entirely different things. And as someone else has said, there's this sticky little issue of EPA certification which the Power Commander folks are able to ignore but Yamaha can't.

FI maps that drive well and certify well across the range of engine speeds, loads, temps, etc. are tricky as hell. I think we're a little jaded too - if it doesn't carb absolutely perfectly, we get all bent out of shape. Some of you might want to buy and ride some vintage iron to see what it was like back in the "good old days". You'll never complain about your FJR again.

FWIIW, my stock 2005 isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn good and I'd classify any criticism of it in the range of nitpicking. Dunno about the 2006's though - never rode one.

- Mark

 

[tripletango]

I go ride my Guzzi and the throttle is light as a feather and the power delivery is smooth and torquey. This proves it can be done!

Getting smooth low-speed fueling on a light-flywheeled, 130-hp inline-four and a heavy-flywheeled, 60-hp v-twin are two entirely different things. And as someone else has said, there's this sticky little issue of EPA certification which the Power Commander folks are able to ignore but Yamaha can't.

FI maps that drive well and certify well across the range of engine speeds, loads, temps, etc. are tricky as hell. I think we're a little jaded too - if it doesn't carb absolutely perfectly, we get all bent out of shape. Some of you might want to buy and ride some vintage iron to see what it was like back in the "good old days". You'll never complain about your FJR again.

FWIIW, my stock 2005 isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn good and I'd classify any criticism of it in the range of nitpicking. Dunno about the 2006's though - never rode one.

- Mark

This whole thread has nothing to do with any other model year other than the 06 and especially the AE. See my comments on replacing an 06 linkage with an 05. i have no problem with my 05 whatsoever! Frys my bollocks but the throttle works fine

 

[twowheelnut]

The TPS I put in has a new P/N that is the same on the '06 so I take that to mean there has been some kind of a change to the part. It will take time or an autopsy of the '06 part to find out if it has been improved. I will note that my mostly solved surging is now back with the new TPS. I don't yet know if that is coincidence or related. My engine now runs with abrupt throttle response like the '06 people are reporting.

:dntknw:

 

[tripletango]

I go ride my Guzzi and the throttle is light as a feather and the power delivery is smooth and torquey. This proves it can be done!

Getting smooth low-speed fueling on a light-flywheeled, 130-hp inline-four and a heavy-flywheeled, 60-hp v-twin are two entirely different things. And as someone else has said, there's this sticky little issue of EPA certification which the Power Commander folks are able to ignore but Yamaha can't.

FI maps that drive well and certify well across the range of engine speeds, loads, temps, etc. are tricky as hell. I think we're a little jaded too - if it doesn't carb absolutely perfectly, we get all bent out of shape. Some of you might want to buy and ride some vintage iron to see what it was like back in the "good old days". You'll never complain about your FJR again.

FWIIW, my stock 2005 isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn good and I'd classify any criticism of it in the range of nitpicking. Dunno about the 2006's though - never rode one.

- Mark

This whole thread has nothing to do with any other model year other than the 06 and especially the AE. See my comments on replacing an 06 linkage with an 05. i have no problem with my 05 whatsoever! Frys my bollocks but the throttle works fine

Re the Guzzi my V11 is 90 hp and has a much lighter flywheel than the cruisers. I do see your point though.

Where does the class action law suit line start for us 06 owners?

The moment that happens is the moment I abandon my research on this issue, and will back up Yamaha to the hilt in fighting any legal action against them. I'll turn over everything I have to help Yamaha defeat a class action suit.

That's how strongly I feel about going to the lawyers to solve this problem, or any problem with the bike, quite frankly.

A lawsuit is pointless. When i discussed the situation with the Yamaha techs at Motogp and then again to the sales people at wfo, they said they were aware of the problem. Don't know how long these things take in Yamahammer corpo land but I think something will be done sooner or later.

 

[Warchild]

Interesting observations Warchild. You thinking it's a mechanical issue with the throttle system design, an ECU mapping issue, or something else?

It's possible that both are contributing to the problem.... I really can't say until I dig into the bike some more.

I am going to try to get a hold of Dan Denchel's 2006 FJR for a week or so if he'll let me borrow it, and see what I can find here. I want to believe it's primarily a mapping issue, but I also have to think that the new, non-linear throttle action is a contrbuting culprit.

But again, I have to get down-n-dirty with the bike for a good few days to scope this out thoroughly.

 

[Bounce]

Ok,this bike really needs a new FI map to cover the lower end and get rid of the jerky low rpm resonpse. I know about the Fred shim, but frankly, it's just wrong. The BMW K1200S had this problem and BMW stepped up to the plate and fixed it. The question is will Yamaha? How hard can it be for them to reprogram the ECU with the correct FI map?

Giddy'p :clapping:

i'm wondering what all the R-bike riders have to say about BMW "stepping to the plate" on FI mapping or owners of the entire product line say about it wrt final drive failures.

 

[Mogambo]

Well, here goes. I know that no one will believe this.... but other than stalling the bike once the first time I got on it, I really don't have any serious issues with the 06 throttle. True, I only have about 400 miles on it it so far, but if it wasn't for reading what what I have read here, I don't think I would have noticed all that much difference from my 04. The only other time I noticed anything was I was approaching a corner in fourth and I down shifted into third and it was a little abrupt upon re-accelleration. I approached the same corner the next day and I remembered it, so my wrist just adjusted for it, and it was fine.

I haven't done the Dragon yet. I've just ridden. I'm not a knee dragger, but for the most part it's been fine. Even tight figure eight type parking lot maneuvers have been fine. As a matter of fact, it seems as though this bike handles tight maneuvers even better than my 04. It only seems as if the clutch engages at an earlier point than my 04. I don't think I would have noticed or even thought about the throttle spring being too tight.

Will I still do the Barbarian Jumper? Maybe. If it will make it even smoother than it is, that will be great.

Overall, I really love everything about the 06 so far. It's not even full broken in yet and I love the way it shifts and rides. I also noticed how really planted the bike feel in corners. Noticably better than the 04. I even like the way the engine sounds better. One person said that their 06 was louder than their 05. I find mine to be quieter than my 04 (No, it wasn't a ticker).

I know that I may be jinxing myself here for something to happen, but I really felt that I should share my personal experience that I've had with the new 06, so far.. I will now knock on some wood.

Maybe there something wrong with me?! :blink:

 

[temp357]

Ok,

this bike really needs a new FI map to cover the lower end and get rid of the jerky low rpm resonpse. I know about the Fred shim, but frankly, it's just wrong. The BMW K1200S had this problem and BMW stepped up to the plate and fixed it. The question is will Yamaha? How hard can it be for them to reprogram the ECU with the correct FI map?

Giddy'p :clapping:

i'm wondering what all the R-bike riders have to say about BMW "stepping to the plate" on FI mapping or owners of the entire product line say about it wrt final drive failures.

Lol, Surging? What surging? I sure do miss my R1100S. I called her the tank. Rock solid. Other than the vibration and a slight surging, she was a beaut.

As for difficulty in coming up with a new FI map and how difficult the EPA can be...I believe you guys. But if BMW can come up with 5+ new FI maps to work out the issue, I think Yamaha can too.

Warchild,

Dunno where you are located, but if I can be of any assistance, please let me know. Although i agree the non-linear throttle pully could be part of the problem, i think this could be easily corrected with a new FI map?

thx

 

[Warchild]

Warchild,Dunno where you are located, but if I can be of any assistance, please let me know.

I am in Washington state, just a couple few miles north of you.

Although i agree the non-linear throttle pully could be part of the problem, i think this could be easily corrected with a new FI map?

Quite possibly. And, certainly, the sensitive throttle issue was fixed long ago for the 'pre-06 models with the simple installation of a PC-IIIusb along with the Wally Kilburg "Smoothness" map... this fix has been available for a couple years now, and works unlike any other approach.

But none of the previous models had this new progressive throttle pulley the '06 model has.... so it sorta throws a new wrench in the works, one that I ASSume the good folks at DynoJet can eventually overcome.

 

[Bounce]

I really don't want to sound like I am complaining because I love this bike (fjr1300a 06)! I have also noticed the jerkyness in lower gears. My wife rides a Honda Shadow (I know not even close) and she wanted to take my bike out for a spin but after playing with the throttle in neutral, she decided along with the weight of the bike it might not be a good idea for her to ride it. I do plan to get a PCIII and I am confident that I will be able to improve the situation. The reason for this post is just to verify that I have noticed the perceived issue.

FYI: I swapped bikes (me a 2003 FJR, him an 1100 Shadow).

I could tell he was "testing" the throttle response and (sensably) going easy as he'd slowly pull away and then drop back. I gunned that dog Shadow and at WFO it didn't do anything other than get louder. I was sure glad it wasn't my bike.