07 Not Starting Part II

[CRMH Eagle]

I wanted to ride today...nice weather here in Colorado. But my baby still isn't starting. I went to the dealership today to inquire if the service guy could help. His advice is that something (critical) is unplugged.

Here are answers to the questions people asked on the first thread:

There is no noise whatsover from the starter or solenoid.

The bike is in neutral and the kickstands are up.

The kill switch is in the proper position.

When I turn the key the dash lights come on and the needles do their thing as well as the "whirring" noise of the fuel pump or whatever it is.

The fuses are fine.

The battery has been on a tender so it's fine.

The fuel gauge is blinking indicating low fuel but I don't think low fuel would cause this. The dash info seems to be in proper order.

--> The only things not connected when I tried this today are the horns, electrical outlet in the storage box, and the connector to the storage box that keeps it locked. Everything else was connected.

So I turn the key and the dash lights blah, blah, blah. Then the left turn signal blinks by itself and when I hit the start button....nothing.

The other stuff isn't conected because...ah, it's a long story.

Am I gonna have to take the bike into the dealership? Dang, I really don't want to pay for that. Can it be that everthing has to be connected???

 

[FJR Steve]

It may well be that everything has to be connected. I really don't know, but if you can connect it, do it.

If that doesn't work, then I would be looking up the Phone Book ....under "S"...for Stealership.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

Glenn,

Sorry to hear about your electrical problems.

I know you've taken care of your battery and I know it's too new to be having problems, but I'd still pull it and have it tested.

I've had more than one battery that seemed o.k., but wasn't.

 

[BBQ]

:angry2: I had a similar problem and discovered that if those two connections under the gas tank are not really made up it will not start. They take a good push to connect solidly.

Just a thought - hope it helps. :yahoo:

 

[Charlie Hoss]

I have heard stories, and once experienced as well, a bad ground can cause electricity to follow "other" paths, such as thru turn signals to ground. Check all connections of major ground wires.

My experience was on a 1980 Yam XS1100, had relocated rear turn signals to allow for soft luggage, was on vaca in Va Beach. Bike turned over but wouldn't start. I worked on it for 2 full days, finally trucked it to a Yammy dealer, they worked on it most of the day. When I casually mentioned that turn indicators would sometimes light up slightly when trying to start....BINGO. He immediately wired in a couple more grounds and it started right up.

Hope this helps.

 

[C&C]

You say in your post, "The other stuff isn't conected because...ah, it's a long story"; I think, maybe, somewhere in the long story you may find your problem. You pretty much are admitting to messing around with the 'electrics'.

 

[ionbeam]

Any response to your starting problem will only be as good as the information supplied. A lot of information is missing

On the Gen IIs, the starter control relay (different from the actual starter relay) sums together a bunch of different inputs before allowing the starter relay to engage. The signals that end up at the control relay seem to find their way to almost every electrical thing on the bike. The main peripheral items such as the side stand switch have already been mentioned, but there are a lot of other things that play a role in getting the starter control relay to allow the starter relay to work.

Questions: Is the turn signal coming on with the signal switch in the center position? Can you cancel the signal? Do all the correct left turn lights come on? Either the switch is bollixed up or the wiring is bollixed up. The same turn signal relay output gets sent to the hazard switch. Is the hazard switch still unplugged? Does the hazard switch work at all? The clutch switch must also be working, it is in proximity to the malfunctioning turn signal switch. So, what is the complete list of unplugged/disabled connectors? Have any of the harnesses been re-pinned at the connectors?

The starter control relay does get signals through Front Cowling Coupler 5 (schematic item 52), if this is unplugged the starter relay will not engage. It also needs Front Coupler 2 (schematic item 17) connected as well as Coupler 1 (Front Cowling, schematic item 13, gear position switch).

????

 

[road runner]

I removed the front cowling to do a bunch of wiring, and I found 2 (of the many) harness plugs had green connectors. There was one pin in each plug that had oxidized (which I cleaned with WD 40 & compressed air). Everything on my bike works but if I have a weird electrical problem in the future I'm going to check these connectors. I think there are 2 on the left side under the glove box, 2 on left side back between the radiator fill neck & frame(these were corroded), and 2 on right side in front of the battery.

You can manually activate the starter solenoid by the battery (by making sure it has trigger neg. & pos.) this will tell you were to go next.

If you bypass the trigger circuit of the solenoid & it cranks then you know the problem is ahead of it , like a starter switch, neutral switch, bad or dirty connection, etc., etc.

If you bypass the trigger & still nothing then the problem is from there back, like solenoid, starter, loose or bad connection.

Just make sure you have 12 volt pos. & neg. at solenoid trigger circuit (I don't know if they use pos. or neg. to activate the solenoid)

You could take apart all the main connectors and make sure they are all clean and tight.

You could also do a wiggle test (while holding starter button wiggle the connectors in question).

Hope this helps.

A.C.

 

[SPORT]

I wanted to ride today...nice weather here in Colorado. But my baby still isn't starting. I went to the dealership today to inquire if the service guy could help. His advice is that something (critical) is unplugged.
Here are answers to the questions people asked on the first thread:

There is no noise whatsover from the starter or solenoid.

The bike is in neutral and the kickstands are up.

The kill switch is in the proper position.

When I turn the key the dash lights come on and the needles do their thing as well as the "whirring" noise of the fuel pump or whatever it is.

The fuses are fine.

The battery has been on a tender so it's fine.

The fuel gauge is blinking indicating low fuel but I don't think low fuel would cause this. The dash info seems to be in proper order.

--> The only things not connected when I tried this today are the horns, electrical outlet in the storage box, and the connector to the storage box that keeps it locked. Everything else was connected.

So I turn the key and the dash lights blah, blah, blah. Then the left turn signal blinks by itself and when I hit the start button....nothing.

The other stuff isn't conected because...ah, it's a long story.

Am I gonna have to take the bike into the dealership? Dang, I really don't want to pay for that. Can it be that everthing has to be connected???

Silly I know, but do you squeeze the clutch prior to starting?

If so, and it's still not starting, you might want to see if that clutch safety switch is not stuck???

 

[ionbeam]

You can manually activate the starter solenoid by the battery (by making sure it has trigger neg. & pos.) this will tell you were to go next.

The 'trigger' is the blue/white wire that gets grounded to turn on the starter relay. The red/white wire at the starter relay is always 12 volts when the key is on. FWIW, the blue/white wire also goes to the ECU and the ABS ECU -- do ya feel lucky?

 

[JamesK]

I wanted to ride today...nice weather here in Colorado. But my baby still isn't starting. I went to the dealership today to inquire if the service guy could help. His advice is that something (critical) is unplugged.
Here are answers to the questions people asked on the first thread:

There is no noise whatsover from the starter or solenoid.

The bike is in neutral and the kickstands are up.

The kill switch is in the proper position.

When I turn the key the dash lights come on and the needles do their thing as well as the "whirring" noise of the fuel pump or whatever it is.

The fuses are fine.

The battery has been on a tender so it's fine.

The fuel gauge is blinking indicating low fuel but I don't think low fuel would cause this. The dash info seems to be in proper order.

--> The only things not connected when I tried this today are the horns, electrical outlet in the storage box, and the connector to the storage box that keeps it locked. Everything else was connected.

So I turn the key and the dash lights blah, blah, blah. Then the left turn signal blinks by itself and when I hit the start button....nothing.

The other stuff isn't conected because...ah, it's a long story.

Am I gonna have to take the bike into the dealership? Dang, I really don't want to pay for that. Can it be that everthing has to be connected???

Silly I know, but do you squeeze the clutch prior to starting?

If so, and it's still not starting, you might want to see if that clutch safety switch is not stuck???

Again, I'm sure you've checked this but...

Are the two plugs/connectors on the Clutch switch seated well/pushed right in, I always check these guys after the kill switch and the sidestand if the bike does not kickover and the battery is ok.

 

[road runner]

You can manually activate the starter solenoid by the battery (by making sure it has trigger neg. & pos.) this will tell you were to go next.

The 'trigger' is the blue/white wire that gets grounded to turn on the starter relay. The red/white wire at the starter relay is always 12 volts when the key is on. FWIW, the blue/white wire also goes to the ECU and the ABS ECU -- do ya feel lucky?

Good catch ionbeam.

Sorry about the misinformation or being to vague.

The service manual tells you to do this in step #7 of electrical starting system troubleshooting. It also says how to do it, by unplugging the harness from the relay and applying 12 volt pos. & neg. to the correct terminals. By unplugging it you can't hurt anything else.

That being said the manual has you check 6 things before that anyway. Here is what it says

#1- check the main & ign. fuses

#2- check battery

#3- check starter operation

#4- check starter (if #3 failed)

#5- check the relay unit (starting circuit cut off relay)

#6- check the relay unit diode (starting circuit cut off relay)

#7- check starter relay (this is the one by the battery)

This goes up to 14 steps.

In order to know what to test & how to test it you need a service manual.

And like ionbeam was saying, more information, and ask a better question and get a better answer.

Good luck: A.C.

 

[CRMH Eagle]

Wow, you guys impress me. Why can't one of you live in my neighborhood? ha!

First, work has me tied down so I have only the weekends to work on the bike. And since my carport isn't fully enclosed I can only work on the bike when the weather isn't too harsh. :cold: I really enjoy living at 7,500 feet outside of Denver. Living in the mountains tends to find me always having mountain weather. But I enjoy it.... no complaints here. Much better than the humidity, bugs, mosquitos, ice storms, and tornados so common when I lived in the South.

Anyhoo.... yesterday I installed the new Fiamm horns. Wow!!!! I can't wait to shock some unexpecting cager!! They are LOUD!!!

A word about my battery: it's a new battery and has been on a tender before I put it on the bike. A few months ago when I was taking my bike to have the ecu recall work, the battery was half dead but the engine still fired.

Here's the situation:

-- I pulled off the cowl and started over to be sure all connectors were properly seated.

-- Pulled out the fuses and check them.

-- The only electrical thing I messed with are the horns. I horns and wires were installed per instructions. My gut feeling it's not the horns. But I'll put the originals back on and retest to know for sure.

-- Took off the tank again and re-connected the connectors under the tank. I took out the jiffy pop and made sure all connectors in that area were connected. By the way, I had the bike out of the carport in direct sun... passerbys slowed down to take a look. The dark cherry in the sun indeed is gorgeous.

-- Installed everything EXCEPT the fender, radiator guard, and the plastic underneath the radiator.

-- Kick stand is up, bike stand is up.

-- There is gas in the tank. I open the gas cover and can see & hear gas inside. The dash tank indicator is blinking saying I need more gas.

-- Turn the key: needles and dash fire up as usual. The whirring below the tank goes on as usual. Pull the clutch and hit the button....silence.

-- What is working and isn't: horn works, L & R signals work, windshield elavator works, gear shift indicator works, dash-info works. Lights don't work of course. However, when I try the emergency lights ONLY one side of the bike is blinking. I think it's the left side. It stops blinking when I cancel the emergency lights. Weird, huh?

So could it be that there is a connector not seating correctly? This is discouraging... brand new bike and can't ride it. :weirdsmiley:

I'm going to re-read what everyone wrote and maybe I can get a clue of where to continue. I've pulled off the cowl 2-3 times looking for unconnected stuff and that process is getting old. Maybe the service guy at the dealership may have an answer. I don't want to spend the money for service. Plus, if I can't get it started it's gonna be a pain in the *** to load on a trailer

Anymore thoughts? Sell it and buy an 08? Maybe I should do the Busa instead or the new Raider? (this is my frustration talking)

 

[v65]

You could try the sidestand safety switch. Wouldn't account for the emergency lights, but it's cheap and easy to check.

 

[C&C]

I just reread the whole thread (man, a whole of territory was covered) but what I didn't see was that you checked to make sure you didn't inadvertantly flip the 'kill switch' to off. If you haven't, give it a check.

 

[conwest]

I just reread the whole thread (man, a whole of territory was covered) but what I didn't see was that you checked to make sure you didn't inadvertantly flip the 'kill switch' to off. If you haven't, give it a check.

...better read eagle`s first post again there CC...kill switch checked. :assassin:

 

[Geezer]

Since the directionals on both sides work and the emergency flashers only work on one side, I would recheck the connector to the emergency flasher switch. Pull it off the switch, make sure each wire is firmly pushed into the connector, and them out it pack onto the switch body. I don't have a clue why something like that would cause the starter to fail but it's worth a try.

 

[ionbeam]

Since the directionals on both sides work and the emergency flashers only work on one side, I would recheck the connector to the emergency flasher switch. Pull it off the switch, make sure each wire is firmly pushed into the connector, and them out it pack onto the switch body. I don't have a clue why something like that would cause the starter to fail but it's worth a try.

It should be impossible for the R/L turn signals to work but not half the Hazard lights. The right and left handlebar couplers (connectors) have a lot of important wires passing through them; some are the clutch switch; run/stop switch; hazard switch; turn signals & starter switch. Also associated with these signals is Coupler 2 - Front Cowling Wire Harness.

At this point CRMH Eagle is going to need to consult the FSM for all the details. We can then help him decipher the wiring diagram as necessary.

--OR-- it's dealer time.

 

[CRMH Eagle]

Tks guys for all the help. I called the dealer today and the service guy tends to believe I've kinked a wire or a connector isn't seated. Sooooooo...I have to pull all the stuff off again. :ranting2: Dang it!!! This will be the 3rd or 5th time or whatever!!! Aggggg!!!! :angry: :fool: This process has taught me to take off the fairings w/out difficulty. There is some good out of this. Does the cussing negate the good??

If the weather cooperates I'll get on it this weekend. I'm praying :rabbi: this is the fix. The service guy said his first bet would be to pull off the fairings and start over...that most likely there's nothing wrong with the side-stand switch as indicated by the emergency blinkers flashing on one side. Reflecting on what everyone has said I tend to think the solution is pulling if all off again and making damn sure the wires are as intended.

I'll update as soon as I'm finished.