08 Barbarian Mod

[Fred W]

If you think about the purpose of the CO settings feature, it only makes sense that all of the new ECUs should come with the same standard set of settings that represent the average requirements of bikes. After all, they cannot possibly know what will be required on a bike by bike basis with out making CO measurements on each cylinder on each bike.

10, 10, 10, 10 has to be wrong. The ECU must have missed the step in the QA process where they load the "average" values. Unless you have some reason not to, I would set the values to the same ones that every other ECU has been reported to have come with: 5, 18, 18, 21 and then adjust from there.

 

[Jagermeister]

If you think about the purpose of the CO settings feature, it only makes sense that all of the new ECUs should come with the same standard set of settings that represent the average requirements of bikes. After all, they cannot possibly know what will be required on a bike by bike basis with out making CO measurements on each cylinder on each bike.
10, 10, 10, 10 has to be wrong. The ECU must have missed the step in the QA process where they load the "average" values. Unless you have some reason not to, I would set the values to the same ones that every other ECU has been reported to have come with: 5, 18, 18, 21 and then adjust from there.

OK, I'm willing to do that, but why must flat 10's be the wrong ?

Based on the Bin o' Facts: (4. Revised engine ECU settings for improved drivability), could the 08 ECU been factory set to 10's?

My non-engineer mind tends to think in simple terms.

Thanks

 

[Fred W]

If you think about the purpose of the CO settings feature, it only makes sense that all of the new ECUs should come with the same standard set of settings that represent the average requirements of bikes. After all, they cannot possibly know what will be required on a bike by bike basis with out making CO measurements on each cylinder on each bike.
10, 10, 10, 10 has to be wrong. The ECU must have missed the step in the QA process where they load the "average" values. Unless you have some reason not to, I would set the values to the same ones that every other ECU has been reported to have come with: 5, 18, 18, 21 and then adjust from there.

OK, I'm willing to do that, but why must flat 10's be the wrong ?

Based on the Bin o' Facts: (4. Revised engine ECU settings for improved drivability), could the 08 ECU been factory set to 10's?

My non-engineer mind tends to think in simple terms.

Thanks

The purpose of these values is to allow fine tuning between cylinders. The characteristics of the cylinders will be a little different in flow through the intake and valves, etc, which result in slightly different tuning needs.

From the CO adjustment doc on Warchild's Tech pages:

"The number is a factor that is used by the fuel injection system to compensate for manufacturing tolerances. It will be different for each cylinder."

Unfortunately, there is no info regarding the CO settings in the FSM.

 

[Jagermeister]

OK, the wierdness continues.

I just got home, hopped on the bike, changed the CO settings to 5,18,18,21, switched off & on, and THE BIKE WON'T START! After several attempts, with and without throttle & clutch, all with kickstand up, in neutral. I switched the ignition off, and reset the COs to 10. Still wouldn't start. Back to 5,18,18,21, re-checked everything, and tried several more times, with no luck.

This is the first time I've attempted to start the FJR since riding it home last weekend (stupid weather), and the only change has been the BJM. It's been in the garage, and the temperature on the LCD says 54, if that helps.

Any Ideas?

 

[Fred W]

OK, the wierdness continues.
I just got home, hopped on the bike, changed the CO settings to 5,18,18,21, switched off & on, and THE BIKE WON'T START! After several attempts, with and without throttle & clutch, all with kickstand up, in neutral. I switched the ignition off, and reset the COs to 10. Still wouldn't start. Back to 5,18,18,21, re-checked everything, and tried several more times, with no luck.

This is the first time I've attempted to start the FJR since riding it home last weekend (stupid weather), and the only change has been the BJM. It's been in the garage, and the temperature on the LCD says 54, if that helps.

Any Ideas?

Kill switch?

 

[Jagermeister]

No, I intentionally flipped the kill switch several times, as well as the kickstand. Also put it in and out of Neutral a few times.

It cranks just fine, but won't turn over.

 

[Fred W]

No, I intentionally flipped the kill switch several times, as well as the kickstand. Also put it in and out of Neutral a few times.It cranks just fine, but won't turn over.

The CO settings should not have influenced this situation at all. You already had done the jumper to the ecu before the new symptom strated, right? So all you did was adjust the settings on the 1 through 4 CO. I think this may be coincidental to the settings change.

Sounds like it may be the "flooded" scenario that I have heard of. Have you tried to start it with the throttle whacked wide open?

 

[Jagermeister]

No, I intentionally flipped the kill switch several times, as well as the kickstand. Also put it in and out of Neutral a few times.It cranks just fine, but won't turn over.

The CO settings should not have influenced this situation at all. You already had done the jumper to the ecu before the new symptom strated, right? So all you did was adjust the settings on the 1 through 4 CO. I think this may be coincidental to the settings change.

Sounds like it may be the "flooded" scenario that I have heard of. Have you tried to start it with the throttle whacked wide open?

Yes, the BJM was done Sunday, and today it won't start.

I tried starting it with the throttle full open a couple times, to no avail. Full open shuts off the injectors, right?

I'll try it again in an hour, then check the ecu connectors to be sure everything's pulgged in tightly.

 

[Jagermeister]

No, I intentionally flipped the kill switch several times, as well as the kickstand. Also put it in and out of Neutral a few times.It cranks just fine, but won't turn over.

The CO settings should not have influenced this situation at all. You already had done the jumper to the ecu before the new symptom strated, right? So all you did was adjust the settings on the 1 through 4 CO. I think this may be coincidental to the settings change.

Sounds like it may be the "flooded" scenario that I have heard of. Have you tried to start it with the throttle whacked wide open?

Yes, the BJM was done Sunday, and today it won't start.

I tried starting it with the throttle full open a couple times, to no avail. Full open shuts off the injectors, right?

I'll try it again in an hour, then check the ecu connectors to be sure everything's pulgged in tightly.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Well Jagermeister,

If it was my ride... I would(after I set the Co back to the original settings) charge the battery up (letting the cylinders dry up too) and try it again. Sometimes you can easily get into a flooded engine and run down the battery just enough that it will seemingly still turn over fine BUT yet not have enough to "light it up!" Also did you check to see if any fuses were blown?? One more thought, If the 08's are truly set at the 10's across the boards.. Those settings may have flooded the **** out of your poor girl.. I can't really comment on the 08's settings though because mine is a 07' If that won't work... I would undo the Barbarian mod and hit the dealer(under warranty) with the simple explanation of the bike not starting.

Thats all I got,

WW

 

[Jagermeister]

News Flash: Yamaha changed the 08 ECU!

I checked and re-checked everything, tried wide-open throttle while cranking the starter, but got nothing. Next, I checked the pins and connections to be sure everything was tight, and tried again, but it still wouldn't start. Finally, I un-did the BJM (swapping 23 & 25 back to original), and it started right up!

To be sure it wasn't just a bad connection that I inadvertantly corrected, or flooding that subsided, I re-did the BJM. As expected it wouldn't start. Then, I went through the cycle a third time to be absolutely sure...I'm now certain that Yamaha has changed the ECU, requiring the 08 to run only with the 23 & 25 pins in their original position.

This does NOT mean you cannot perform the Barbarian Mod on an 08. Each of the three times I swapped 23 & 25, the CO settings remained. I finally left them on 7, 20, 20, 23 (+2, presumably), for now.

 

[Fred W]

News Flash: Yamaha changed the 08 ECU!
I checked and re-checked everything, tried wide-open throttle while cranking the starter, but got nothing. Next, I checked the pins and connections to be sure everything was tight, and tried again, but it still wouldn't start. Finally, I un-did the BJM (swapping 23 & 25 back to original), and it started right up!

To be sure it wasn't just a bad connection that I inadvertantly corrected, or flooding that subsided, I re-did the BJM. As expected it wouldn't start. Then, I went through the cycle a third time to be absolutely sure...I'm now certain that Yamaha has changed the ECU, requiring the 08 to run only with the 23 & 25 pins in their original position.

This does NOT mean you cannot perform the Barbarian Mod on an 08. Each of the three times I swapped 23 & 25, the CO settings remained. I finally left them on 7, 20, 20, 23 (+2, presumably), for now.

Hmmm. It sounds like the wiring is different? Below is from the Bin-of-facts for '06-07

Barbarian Jumper Mod / CO Setting:Barbarian Jumper Mod (allows fuel injector mapping adjustment/CO setting changes)

NOTE: link shows instructions for '03 model, but for Gen II (2006-2007) --

-- the general instructions are the same.

-- just remove the white plug out of 25, move the wire from 23 to 25, and put the white plug in 23

This is indicating there was no wire in 25. Your post insinuates you had a wire in both 23 and 25.

If so, that must be the problem/difference.

Stupid Question: Did you ever try accessing the CO adjustment menu with the wires in their normal positions?

 

[War Machine]

News Flash: Yamaha changed the 08 ECU!
I checked and re-checked everything, tried wide-open throttle while cranking the starter, but got nothing. Next, I checked the pins and connections to be sure everything was tight, and tried again, but it still wouldn't start. Finally, I un-did the BJM (swapping 23 & 25 back to original), and it started right up!

To be sure it wasn't just a bad connection that I inadvertantly corrected, or flooding that subsided, I re-did the BJM. As expected it wouldn't start. Then, I went through the cycle a third time to be absolutely sure...I'm now certain that Yamaha has changed the ECU, requiring the 08 to run only with the 23 & 25 pins in their original position.

This does NOT mean you cannot perform the Barbarian Mod on an 08. Each of the three times I swapped 23 & 25, the CO settings remained. I finally left them on 7, 20, 20, 23 (+2, presumably), for now.

Hmmm. It sounds like the wiring is different? Below is from the Bin-of-facts for '06-07

Barbarian Jumper Mod / CO Setting:Barbarian Jumper Mod (allows fuel injector mapping adjustment/CO setting changes)

NOTE: link shows instructions for '03 model, but for Gen II (2006-2007) --

-- the general instructions are the same.

-- just remove the white plug out of 25, move the wire from 23 to 25, and put the white plug in 23

This is indicating there was no wire in 25. Your post insinuates you had a wire in both 23 and 25.

If so, that must be the problem/difference.

Stupid Question: Did you ever try accessing the CO adjustment menu with the wires in their normal positions?

I did the BM to my 08 this last weekend while I was installing the PCIII. I followed the instructions based on the 04 FJR which is what I believe I used for my 06. You must take the yellow wire with the red strip (#29 slot IIRC) & swap it with the white pin in slot #25. My bike both started & went into diagnostic mode. Unfortunately I did not check what the CO settings were.

[SIZE=12pt]UPDATE: This is not correct - see post #41[/SIZE]

If I get time later this evening I will go to the garage, go into diagnostic mode & post the CO settings that I find. I haven't ridden the bike yet due to snow on the ground, but it started normal & after warming the bike to operating temp I blipped the throttle several times at 1/2 & 3/4 throttle & the bike sounded like its usual self. Nice & strong.

Hope this helps. I'll post the CO settings this evening.

 

[Fred W]

News Flash: Yamaha changed the 08 ECU!
I checked and re-checked everything, tried wide-open throttle while cranking the starter, but got nothing. Next, I checked the pins and connections to be sure everything was tight, and tried again, but it still wouldn't start. Finally, I un-did the BJM (swapping 23 & 25 back to original), and it started right up!

To be sure it wasn't just a bad connection that I inadvertantly corrected, or flooding that subsided, I re-did the BJM. As expected it wouldn't start. Then, I went through the cycle a third time to be absolutely sure...I'm now certain that Yamaha has changed the ECU, requiring the 08 to run only with the 23 & 25 pins in their original position.

This does NOT mean you cannot perform the Barbarian Mod on an 08. Each of the three times I swapped 23 & 25, the CO settings remained. I finally left them on 7, 20, 20, 23 (+2, presumably), for now.

Hmmm. It sounds like the wiring is different? Below is from the Bin-of-facts for '06-07

Barbarian Jumper Mod / CO Setting:Barbarian Jumper Mod (allows fuel injector mapping adjustment/CO setting changes)

NOTE: link shows instructions for '03 model, but for Gen II (2006-2007) --

-- the general instructions are the same.

-- just remove the white plug out of 25, move the wire from 23 to 25, and put the white plug in 23

This is indicating there was no wire in 25. Your post insinuates you had a wire in both 23 and 25.

If so, that must be the problem/difference.

Stupid Question: Did you ever try accessing the CO adjustment menu with the wires in their normal positions?

I did the BM to my 08 this last weekend while I was installing the PCIII. I followed the instructions based on the 04 FJR which is what I believe I used for my 06. You must take the yellow wire with the red strip (#25 slot IIRC) & swap it with the white pin in slot #29. My bike both started & went into diagnostic mode. Unfortunately I did not check what the CO settings were.

If I get time later this evening I will go to the garage, go into diagnostic mode & post the CO settings that I find. I haven't ridden the bike yet due to snow on the ground, but it started normal & after warming the bike to operating temp I blipped the throttle several times at 1/2 & 3/4 throttle & the bike sounded like its usual self. Nice & strong.

Hope this helps. I'll post the CO settings this evening.

Sounds like the Bin of Facts may have an error on pin numbers then?

 

[Capt. Bob]

The 04 models require a "jumper" between pin#25 and pin#29 You don't move any wires.

06 models require that you move the wire in pin#23 to pin#25 (which has a plug).

I could access my diagnostic mode before I did the BJM on my 06, but could not get at the CO2 settings. That is what the mod allows.

 

[Jagermeister]

[SIZE=12pt]The 2008 follows the same BJM procedure as 06-07. The #23 wire & #25 plug are swapped, allowing access to the CO settings. The CO settings cannot be accessed without this Mod.[/SIZE]

The apparent change to 08 models is: After changing the stock CO settings, the 23 & 25 wire & plug must be returned to their stock positions, before the bike will run. The modified CO settings are retained.

 

[Jagermeister]

I did the BM to my 08 this last weekend while I was installing the PCIII. I followed the instructions based on the 04 FJR which is what I believe I used for my 06. You must take the yellow wire with the red strip (#25 slot IIRC) & swap it with the white pin in slot #29. My bike both started & went into diagnostic mode. Unfortunately I did not check what the CO settings were.
If I get time later this evening I will go to the garage, go into diagnostic mode & post the CO settings that I find. I haven't ridden the bike yet due to snow on the ground, but it started normal & after warming the bike to operating temp I blipped the throttle several times at 1/2 & 3/4 throttle & the bike sounded like its usual self. Nice & strong.

Hope this helps. I'll post the CO settings this evening.

Doesn't the PCIII override the stock settings? Will you be able to get a stock CO read?

 

[Fred W]

[SIZE=12pt]The 2008 follows the same BJM procedure as 06-07. The #23 wire & #25 plug are swapped, allowing access to the CO settings. The CO settings cannot be accessed without this Mod.[/SIZE]
The apparent change to 08 models is: After changing the stock CO settings, the 23 & 25 wire & plug must be returned to their stock positions, before the bike will run. The modified CO settings are retained.

War machine indicates it's pins 25 and 29. You said you swapped 23 and 25. Maybe this was your problem?

 

[Capt. Bob]

[SIZE=12pt]The 2008 follows the same BJM procedure as 06-07. The #23 wire & #25 plug are swapped, allowing access to the CO settings. The CO settings cannot be accessed without this Mod.[/SIZE]
The apparent change to 08 models is: After changing the stock CO settings, the 23 & 25 wire & plug must be returned to their stock positions, before the bike will run. The modified CO settings are retained.

Well since you have access to the CO2 settings, you got the mod part right. Don't know where War Machine got his procedure or if he can access the CO2 settings. Anyway....

It wouldn't suprise me that your ECU came with 10 10 10 10 settings. This has been discussed at length for some time and IIRC the thought is that these ECUs come from the Factory pre set. I would imagine that whatever settings are on a batch of ECUs, Yamaha knows that the bike will pass emmision standards for import. You would think they (Yamy) has (continues) to test the FJR and comes up with a "standard" setting to apply to that group of bikes. Maybe 10 10 10 10 is the new 5 18 18 21.

There is a good discussion on this from a German forum member. For those who haven't read it, it states how he and other FJR owners got together and tested the CO2 levels at each pipe (they fitted riv-nuts) and compaired the percentage of difference between each tube. The data confirmed that there was in fact, a wide range of difference between each pipe when using the Factory settings. Using the CO2 analyzer, they readjusted each setting so that the percent of CO2 was equal in each pipe. They claim the bike ran much better.This is what really needs to happen(others before me have stated the same) rather than random, crapshooting that we do by moving the settings up or down.

 

[Jagermeister]

[SIZE=12pt]The 2008 follows the same BJM procedure as 06-07. The #23 wire & #25 plug are swapped, allowing access to the CO settings. The CO settings cannot be accessed without this Mod.[/SIZE]
The apparent change to 08 models is: After changing the stock CO settings, the 23 & 25 wire & plug must be returned to their stock positions, before the bike will run. The modified CO settings are retained.

War machine indicates it's pins 25 and 29. You said you swapped 23 and 25. Maybe this was your problem?

As Capt. Bob pointed out: "The 04 models require a "jumper" between pin#25 and pin#29 You don't move any wires.

06 models require that you move the wire in pin#23 to pin#25 (which has a plug).

I could access my diagnostic mode before I did the BJM on my 06, but could not get at the CO2 settings. That is what the mod allows."

This was my experience on the 08, as well. I followed the Gen-2 directions, which allows CO settings access. The only difference for 08 is the requirement to return 23 and 25 to their original places.

My only remaining question is: What are the stock CO settings for 08? Mine showed all 10's, which apparently cannot be correct.