08 Barbarian Mod

[Capt. Bob]

My only remaining question is: What are the stock CO settings for 08? Mine showed all 10's, which apparently cannot be correct.

Like I said, 10 10 10 10 may be right. We need to have other 08ers post their settings.

I still find it strange that you have to change the wires back in order to start the bike.

Then again, maybe War Machine is on to something with his mod technique. Might be what is needed for the 08s.

 

[War Machine]

I did the BM to my 08 this last weekend while I was installing the PCIII. I followed the instructions based on the 04 FJR which is what I believe I used for my 06. You must take the yellow wire with the red strip (#29 slot IIRC) & swap it with the white pin in slot #25. My bike both started & went into diagnostic mode. Unfortunately I did not check what the CO settings were.[SIZE=12pt]UPDATE: This is not correct - see post #41[/SIZE]

If I get time later this evening I will go to the garage, go into diagnostic mode & post the CO settings that I find. I haven't ridden the bike yet due to snow on the ground, but it started normal & after warming the bike to operating temp I blipped the throttle several times at 1/2 & 3/4 throttle & the bike sounded like its usual self. Nice & strong.

Hope this helps. I'll post the CO settings this evening.

I went to the garage a little while ago & found out that the 08 bike "appears" to go into diagnostic mode, but when I tried to go to the CO settings it would not allow me to.

Since what I did was unsuccessful, I undid the BM & put the wire back into slot #29 & the white pin back into slot #25. I then held the reset & select button together & turned the ignition on & low & behold the LCD "appears" to be in diagnostic mode but it isn't. It will not allow you to go to the CO setting.

I hope my error did not cause anyone undo grief. I posted this correction as soon as I possibly could.

 

[Fred W]

The plot thickens...

 

[Jagermeister]

I did the BM to my 08 this last weekend while I was installing the PCIII. I followed the instructions based on the 04 FJR which is what I believe I used for my 06. You must take the yellow wire with the red strip (#29 slot IIRC) & swap it with the white pin in slot #25. My bike both started & went into diagnostic mode. Unfortunately I did not check what the CO settings were.[SIZE=12pt]UPDATE: This is not correct - see post #41[/SIZE]

If I get time later this evening I will go to the garage, go into diagnostic mode & post the CO settings that I find. I haven't ridden the bike yet due to snow on the ground, but it started normal & after warming the bike to operating temp I blipped the throttle several times at 1/2 & 3/4 throttle & the bike sounded like its usual self. Nice & strong.

Hope this helps. I'll post the CO settings this evening.

I went to the garage a little while ago & found out that the 08 bike "appears" to go into diagnostic mode, but when I tried to go to the CO settings it would not allow me to.

Since what I did was unsuccessful, I undid the BM & put the wire back into slot #29 & the white pin back into slot #25. I then held the reset & select button together & turned the ignition on & low & behold the LCD "appears" to be in diagnostic mode but it isn't. It will not allow you to go to the CO setting.

I hope my error did not cause anyone undo grief. I posted this correction as soon as I possibly could.

No problem...you've followed the procedure for a Gen 1 BJM.

Assuming you've gotten everything back to stock, try swapping the 23 and 25 pin & wire, per the Gen 2 BJM instructions. That will give you access to the CO settings.

Bonus points will be given if you first unplug the PCIII, and can find the factory CO settings.

Double bonus points for validating that the bike won't start with the pin & wire in that position. If I'm correct, you'll need to replace the 23 & 25 pin & wire to the stock position, before it will run.

 

[Jagermeister]

Anyone else with an 08 willing to check the stock CO settings?

C'mon, the weather is crap, what else do you have to do?

 

[Shadow]

I am curious to know what effect installing a PCIII on a bike has on the settings after doing the BJM. If you are installing a smoothness map on the PCIII after installing a set of slip ons, are you defeating the purpose of the BJM? :huh:

Yes, they are redundant. The CO settings are controlled by PCIII.

Not sure you are right.

ECU controls the C02 settings until a 1% increase in throttle is detected by the TPS, then the PCIII takes over.

 

[Fred W]

I am curious to know what effect installing a PCIII on a bike has on the settings after doing the BJM. If you are installing a smoothness map on the PCIII after installing a set of slip ons, are you defeating the purpose of the BJM? :huh:

Yes, they are redundant. The CO settings are controlled by PCIII.

Not sure you are right.

ECU controls the C02 settings until a 1% increase in throttle is detected by the TPS, then the PCIII takes over.

This does not appear to be true. There are populated cells for 0% throttle in the PCIII map. 0% throttle at 1000 rpm cell would appear to be idle. 0% throttle at higher rpms would be decel conditions.

I believe that both the CO and PCIII contribute to the final injector results. The CO setting just adds to the base map in the ECU, but allows some difference between injector channels. I believe it was Jestel (who seems to know about these things) that said it does indeed have an effect on the mixture, even off idle. Then the PCIII adds to or subtracts from those results to get a final injector open time.

 

[keithaba]

We've yet to get to the stock CO settings on another 08?

Are they 10 10 10, or was Jager's settings screwy from the factory or setup?

 

[ionbeam]

This is posted in another Barbarian thread too:

To back up a step or two here – The CO adjustment should only need to be done if you are experiencing lean surging, it doesn’t really affect any other driveability issues. Lean surging will be noticeable at steady speeds while at low RPMs. If you don’t have this issue then there is no gain or reason to do the Barbarian jumper/mod thingie. If you don’t have an aliment, why would you take a pill for it anyway?

Through research and actual CO measurement Tom Barber (Barbarian) and Dwayne Verhey (Torch) determined that for their particular ’03 motorcycles an increase in offset by 7 over the baseline CO level brought their CO levels to a more optimum level, without exceeding max. limits. Has anyone actually measured a Gen II which has different fuel pressure regulation and different ECU mapping? If not, your only guide to success would be the elimination of lean surging.

The '03 specs listed a CO value for pre cat and post cat emissions. Barbarian & Torch determined that bumping the CO levels from 1.5% to 3-4% (out of a maximum of 5%) at idle took care of the issues that drove them to pioneer this procedure.

While I said that the only reason to bump the CO was for driveability, Fastwally claims to have dyno measured a 4hp increase after the magical 7 bump. As is often said in the technical fields, "Can you duplicate these results?"

If you are adding a PCIII to fix surging or to improve throttle characteristics there is no need to bump the CO levels, the PCIII maps will effectively do the same thing, plus more. The CO adjustment won't have any affect until the motorcycle engine is under load (driving down the street) so the CO level and PCIII mapping at idle is moot.

 

[SkooterG]

I posted the following in that same other thread that ionbeam referenced:

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times. The BJM (Barbarian Jumper Mod) is completely overrated, is misunderstood, and is given waaay too much credit. It's just one big SWAG. Without measurements, one has no ******* clue as to what they are doing. What problems they may be correcting only partially, or what problems they may be starting.

Here's some excellent info from one of the guys who developed the BJM: Torch speaks!!!

 

[Fred W]

I posted the following in that same other thread that ionbeam referenced:

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times. The BJM (Barbarian Jumper Mod) is completely overrated, is misunderstood, and is given waaay too much credit. It's just one big SWAG. Without measurements, one has no ******* clue as to what they are doing. What problems they may be correcting only partially, or what problems they may be starting.

Here's some excellent info from one of the guys who developed the BJM: Torch speaks!!!

There ya go. That torch post says it all.

 

[keithaba]

I posted the following in that same other thread that ionbeam referenced:

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times. The BJM (Barbarian Jumper Mod) is completely overrated, is misunderstood, and is given waaay too much credit. It's just one big SWAG. Without measurements, one has no ******* clue as to what they are doing. What problems they may be correcting only partially, or what problems they may be starting.

Here's some excellent info from one of the guys who developed the BJM: Torch speaks!!!

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but it would be beneficial to know what the stock settings are so Jager could set his back to stock, if he so desired?

10 10 10 seems weird, but maybe that's what it is supposed to be?

 

[ionbeam]

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but it would be beneficial to know what the stock settings are so Jager could set his back to stock, if he so desired?
10 10 10 seems weird, but maybe that's what it is supposed to be?

Topic creep is the rule around here. If we start off talking about substitute lamps for the turn signals by post #50 we could be talking about lowered foot pegs or how gay polished wheels are :lol:

I really doubt that Yamaha's manufacturing and materials controls are so good that that all cylinders can get the same trim values. However, the trim number 10 may center the CO values close enough to ensure that even in the worst case all the engines will pass EPA (today). In manufacturing there is a trade off between exactly right (better than it has to be) and good enough.

It's hard to draw a line with only one point other readings would sure help. IIRC, there were a number of '07s that had the same trim values, though the values were very different cylinder to cylinder.

Edited: Whatta looser, I was wrong it was the '06s that had the same trim values: -10, 8, 8, 11

 

[Jagermeister]

I posted the following in that same other thread that ionbeam referenced:

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times. The BJM (Barbarian Jumper Mod) is completely overrated, is misunderstood, and is given waaay too much credit. It's just one big SWAG. Without measurements, one has no ******* clue as to what they are doing. What problems they may be correcting only partially, or what problems they may be starting.

Here's some excellent info from one of the guys who developed the BJM: Torch speaks!!!

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but it would be beneficial to know what the stock settings are so Jager could set his back to stock, if he so desired?

10 10 10 seems weird, but maybe that's what it is supposed to be?

Exactly.

I did the BJM to gain access to the CO settings (like everyone else) so changes could be made as needed. Since the initial ride was smoother on the 08, the CO settings may have been perfect, from the factory. Assuming that remains the case as break-in miles accumulate, I'd be happy to leave the CO settings at stock levels. Thus, I'd like to know what stock levels truely are.

From Torch (FJR1300.info): "The number is a factor that is used by the fuel injection system to compensate for manufacturing tolerances. It will be different for each cylinder. It is not a direct measure of the CO percentage of the exhaust gas. There is no way to predict the CO level from this number."

Since the numbers DO NOT measure the CO level, but are simply labels, 10, 10, 10, 10 may indeed be the factory CO settings for the 08.

[SIZE=12pt]Again, I'd like confirmation of the Stock CO levels from another 2008 owner. [/SIZE]

 

[DocDanDC]

Maybe for the '08 FJR the ECU is good enough to make the addition of a PCIII not necessary then..........

 

[dcarver]

If some rich forum member would be so kind as to buy me a new 08 fjr today I will happily provide CO numbers tomorrow..

 

[TheBlueStreak]

Jagermeister,

I think its best to follow the old saying, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it". You are saying your 08 is alot smother than your 07 so move-on & ride.

 

[War Machine]

Jagermeister,
I think its best to follow the old saying, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it". You are saying your 08 is alot smother than your 07 so move-on & ride.

Exactly! The 08 is just as smooth in stock form as the 06 was after the PCIII was installed. I think after my failed attempt of the BM on the 08 I best leave well enough alone.

I installed the PCIII on the 08 because 1) I already had it & 2) It may become necessary to remap after I change the exhaust.

Otherwise, for now all I need to do is rack up some (s)miles.

 

[Jagermeister]

Jagermeister,
I think its best to follow the old saying, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it". You are saying your 08 is alot smother than your 07 so move-on & ride.

Sure...but move on with what CO settings? I'd probably just reset them to stock, if I knew what the stock CO settings are.

 

[Fred W]

Jagermeister,
I think its best to follow the old saying, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it". You are saying your 08 is alot smother than your 07 so move-on & ride.

Sure...but move on with what CO settings? I'd probably just reset them to stock, if I knew what the stock CO settings are.

C'mon folks. Has nobody else with an '08 FJR installed the barbarian jumper and read out the numbers? You don't have to change them or anything...

Then again, Jaeger. If the bike runs well (read: no surging) with 10's across the board, why fiddle with it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.