09 FJR--two-up floppiness?

[blakmambo]

If you had a GenIII, you would probably be looking for a replacement mirror stay/subframe.

MuHAHaaaaa . . . finally something that the Gen2 is "better at" than the Gen3 !!!! Worth it to me, I'm "OK" with a slower bike, but it has to do tip overs gracefully and for cheap. The FJR seems to be better than my old Konk, tip over cracked the fairing in a place very hard to get to to fix it, been that way for years; FJR seems to be very good at taking the inevitable fall.

Haven't looked at it in the cold light of day yet, though. I strapped the brake lever on to hopefully bleed any air from the right side tip over that might have worked into the lines; it was lying there on its side for a couple minutes as I had to get the cover off and get between some garden surround elements to do the triage and get her back standing again. One of those, "Help me, I've fallen and I can't get up" moments that seemed to go on for longer than I wished. Thank the Supreme Being of your choice that I have a Gen2 is all I can say. : - )))))

 

[Mad German]

I have the side-stand shimmed so that the bike is more upright rather than compressing one fork tube

Of all things to worry about, LOL! Or put it on the center stand. Seriously, ride more, worry less.

 

[Uncle Hud]

blakmambo posted: . . . I have the side-stand shimmed so that the bike is more upright rather than compressing one fork tube . . . .

A more upright position makes it easier for the FJR to tip over.

Imagine if your FJR was on a longer sidestand (more upright) or a shorter sidestand (leaning farther). Which one makes it easier to tip over in the other direction?

 

[blakmambo]

Gents:

Yes, thanks for the continuing "thoughts" . . . usually the "tipover" phenom is one of those "hindsight is 110%" . . . and could have been avoided, but, that isn't really the nature of motorcycling is it, which is about moving in one direction, quickly . . . w/o letting "thoughts" get in the way, etc.

In this case I had recently moved the bike from its place on the small area of concrete pad, where indeed the center stand works quite well and is quite stable, to the "off deck" area of pea gravel covered by years of leaves where the center stand would dig in, and so there the side stand is routinely set on a piece of wood (for the same reason) . . . and that can be raised or lowered depending on the ground levels . . . . Added into that was something happening requiring me to "rush" and I crashed into the black covered bike in the total darkness . . . this was just like an AA "share" . . . the story of how I f**ked up . . . but I "appreciate" the reminders and admonitions of how to never f**k up again in motorcycling . . . no reason that f**k ups should happen if we are ever attentive to the needs of the machine, etc . . . .

Back on the "floppiness" topic, I did get a short hour ride the other day after changing the top buttons, whatever that might be "rebound compression??" so that they matched . . . and it did seem "better" as far as handling goes . . . have to give it some more time, and/or try to figure out the settings for the full adjustment as linked here . . . just, there just isn't the kind of time that I once dedicated to riding these days . . . so all I can do is worry about the slow degradation of the left fork tube when sitting on the side stand . . . and, then, other stuff to do . . . serious stuff . . . .

 

[HotRodZilla]

Where is my double face-palm meme?? Jeez...

 

[Fontanaman]

I have an 09 with 86,000 miles. The Gen II suspension is very soft. I updated my bike with GP Suspension front forks upgrade and a Penske shock in the rear. This made a big difference. The bike handles like it is on rails now. GP Suspension is in the LA area. You could save by money buy using a Gen III shock vs a Penske.

However I don't think the soft suspension of the 09 is going to solve "the bike drops in to the turn too quick at low speeds". Some tires such as the Michelin and Dunlap Roadsmart tires have a profile allowing a quick drop in and some folks find these tires are nervous. The stock tires on an 09 were a Metzeler Roadtec Z series and required more effort to get the bike to drop in to a turn than the aforementioned tires - let's call these tire neutral drop in. I prefer tires where drop in take less effort.

I recall being very tired after riding the FJR to Mt. St. Helen's with the Metzeler and stock suspension. After installing a set of Michelin PR2's the bike dropped into the turn without as much effort. After upgrading the suspension it took much less effort to get the bike drop into the turn.

That is my experience. Hope this helps.

 

[blakmambo]

I have an 09 with 86,000 miles. The Gen II suspension is very soft. I updated my bike with GP Suspension front forks upgrade and a Penske shock in the rear. This made a big difference. The bike handles like it is on rails now. GP Suspension is in the LA area. You could save by money buy using a Gen III shock vs a Penske.
However I don't think the soft suspension of the 09 is going to solve "the bike drops in to the turn too quick at low speeds". Some tires such as the Michelin and Dunlap Roadsmart tires have a profile allowing a quick drop in and some folks find these tires are nervous. The stock tires on an 09 were a Metzeler Roadtec Z series and required more effort to get the bike to drop in to a turn than the aforementioned tires - let's call these tire neutral drop in. I prefer tires where drop in take less effort.

I recall being very tired after riding the FJR to Mt. St. Helen's with the Metzeler and stock suspension. After installing a set of Michelin PR2's the bike dropped into the turn without as much effort. After upgrading the suspension it took much less effort to get the bike drop into the turn.

That is my experience. Hope this helps.

@Fontanaman:

Thanks for the details on the suspension upgrades, got roughly 10K before that would be scheduled . . . I've used Works Performance in the past to upgrade Kawi springs and shock--they are also in LA, but doesn't seem to be making the "short list" for the FJR upgrades on the forum. And, on the tires, indeed this "new" over tip in scenario did start after I changed the front to Pirelli Angel??? So, yup, better turn in in the canyons, but also perhaps more floppiness in low speed environment . . . it had the Metz on when I got it, rear tire still OK . . . .

 

[Eagle Six]

I recall being very tired after riding the FJR to Mt. St. Helen's with the Metzeler and stock suspension. After installing a set of Michelin PR2's the bike dropped into the turn without as much effort. After upgrading the suspension it took much less effort to get the bike drop into the turn.

Fontanaman,

My experience has been similar to yours, although I have not put near as many miles on my 07' FJR and therefore I think you have more valuable input. I have PR3 (a little flat spot in the center from highway runs by the previous owner), which work pretty good going into turns. I lowered the triple tree a 1/2", which helped reduce the strain to flick the bike into turns without making it unstable on the highway. This was also to counter the geometry change made with a slight lowering of the dog bones.

However doing what I did would probably be the opposite and aggravate the problem blakmambo has been experiencing, as it also at slower parking lot speeds will turn in quicker. It doesn't make the parking or tight maneuvering more difficult for me, but as you stated many riders would feel nervous with this heavy bike making the changes I have. Just my experience and my desire to have the bike get into and out of the turns a little better. Others will prefer a greater rake and trail (OEM) for more stability in parking lots/highway and may not be as aggressive in the turns or ride frequently in the twisties.

 

[BikerGeek99]

'Zilla said: Where is my double face-palm meme?? Jeez...

Ahem.

 

[blakmambo]

Yep. forum posts range from high quality data to low comedy . . . precerate it.

 

[Knifemaker]

"so all I can do is worry about the slow degradation of the left fork tube when sitting on the side stand"

You need to explain what you mean by this. Assuming it's a joke right?

 

[blakmambo]

"so all I can do is worry about the slow degradation of the left fork tube when sitting on the side stand"
You need to explain what you mean by this. Assuming it's a joke right?

Yes, and no . . . self-deprecating humor . . . but trying to keep the forks "happy" and "balanced" . . . for those times when it's on the side stand. We'll have to see in the next 10K which tube busts a move, the left, the right, or both. Two bikes have to share the same "on deck" concrete pad; I'd prefer to keep them both on the center stand, but, no dice . . . . Today is Kawi day.

 

[Knifemaker]

"so all I can do is worry about the slow degradation of the left fork tube when sitting on the side stand"

You need to explain what you mean by this. Assuming it's a joke right?

Yes, and no . . . self-deprecating humor . . . but trying to keep the forks "happy" and "balanced" . . . for those times when it's on the side stand. We'll have to see in the next 10K which tube busts a move, the left, the right, or both. Two bikes have to share the same "on deck" concrete pad; I'd prefer to keep them both on the center stand, but, no dice . . . . Today is Kawi day.

Not following here. How does being on the sidestsnd have any effect at all on the forks? You can't compress one fork before the other and as they are parallel, even the oil in each would be tilted at the same angle and at the same level. Placing something under the sidestsnd so it "stands up more" does nothing other than make the bike less stable and (as you found out) easier to topple over. If anything you should get the bike to lean over more.If somehow you're saying your left fork compresses more than the right fork when leaned on the stand, there's something terribly wrong with your bike.

 

[HotRodZilla]

"so all I can do is worry about the slow degradation of the left fork tube when sitting on the side stand"You need to explain what you mean by this. Assuming it's a joke right?

Yes, and no . . . self-deprecating humor . . . but trying to keep the forks "happy" and "balanced" . . . for those times when it's on the side stand. We'll have to see in the next 10K which tube busts a move, the left, the right, or both. Two bikes have to share the same "on deck" concrete pad; I'd prefer to keep them both on the center stand, but, no dice . . . . Today is Kawi day.

You understand the forks do not work independently of each other, right?? Leaning the bike over does not work one fork more than the other. They are fixed at the same point on the same wheel.Sheesh...I've had two or three fork leaks over the life of my bike. All on the right side fork, so I can guarantee you, putting the bike on the sidestand has absolutely no bearing on the functionality of the forks.I hope I just got trolled...
Haha...I see Knifemaker beat me to the punch.

 

[mcatrophy]

You do get a flat spot on one side of the tyre that will lead to wobble on decel :worriedsmiley: .

 

[Eagle Six]

Back on the "floppiness" topic, I did get a short hour ride the other day after changing the top buttons, whatever that might be "rebound compression??" so that they matched . . . and it did seem "better" as far as handling goes . . . have to give it some more time, and/or try to figure out the settings for the full adjustment as linked here . . . just, there just isn't the kind of time that I once dedicated to riding these days . . . so all I can do is worry about the slow degradation of the left fork tube when sitting on the side stand . . . and, then, other stuff to do . . . serious stuff . . . .

The top 'buttons' are rebound dampening, and below them is the preload adjustment. The compression dampening is at the lower end of the forks. It is good that you have set the rebound dampening click adjustments even, and we could also say that is mandatory. But you didn't tell us how different they were and also important, how many clicks out you now have them set. I've never heard anyone setup their suspension for parking lot speeds, rather we set them up for street or track speeds considering our style of riding, local street conditions and payload on the bike. If I'm not mistaken the discussion recommendations you have received for suspension settings was to get you to a reasonable and known setting close to factory specs, in the event the previous owner had them really whacked out of adjustment, which could have an adverse effect you are experiencing. But if the suspension settings were that far out of whack I would think you would not feel very good at highway speeds. So, it may be helpful if you indicate how the bike felt on the road at speed after you made the rebound dampening adjustment.

It has been my experience that I can tell small changes in the suspension setup (both front and rear) when at higher speeds, with different loads (solo, baggage or 2-up, tires and pressure, etc.), or when riding over rough roads compared to smooth, but have never been able to tell a minor adjustment difference in riding at parking lot speeds. Only if we have made a huge, unreasonable, adjustment would we be able to detect a difference in parking lot maneuvering, or the adjustment made to the right were much different than the left (uneven).

I understand you are pushed for time, just wondering if you have made any other progress addressing your original 'floppiness' issue. As for the side stand -vs- center stand for storage, it's understandable you want to center stand to make your storage area easier to move around. I think we all agree, putting your FJR on the side stand is not going to effect your left fork over the right.

 

[blakmambo]

Back on the "floppiness" topic, I did get a short hour ride the other day after changing the top buttons, whatever that might be "rebound compression??" so that they matched . . . and it did seem "better" as far as handling goes . . . have to give it some more time, and/or try to figure out the settings for the full adjustment as linked here . . . just, there just isn't the kind of time that I once dedicated to riding these days . . . so all I can do is worry about the slow degradation of the left fork tube when sitting on the side stand . . . and, then, other stuff to do . . . serious stuff . . . .

Eagle 6 wrote:

It has been my experience that I can tell small changes in the suspension setup (both front and rear) when at higher speeds, with different loads (solo, baggage or 2-up, tires and pressure, etc.), or when riding over rough roads compared to smooth, but have never been able to tell a minor adjustment difference in riding at parking lot speeds. Only if we have made a huge, unreasonable, adjustment would we be able to detect a difference in parking lot maneuvering, or the adjustment made to the right were much different than the left (uneven).

I understand you are pushed for time, just wondering if you have made any other progress addressing your original 'floppiness' issue. As for the side stand -vs- center stand for storage, it's understandable you want to center stand to make your storage area easier to move around. I think we all agree, putting your FJR on the side stand is not going to effect your left fork over the right.

OK, Back from a nice ride on the olde Kawi . . . and thanks to all for helping to release me from "my bad juju" on the care and feeding of the modern cartridge forks . . . don't know how that one got started, but I don't make this stuff up; I'm certain either a mechanic or my olde moto mentor told me that "keeping it on the center stand is better for the forks" . . . . Being younger back then I didn't waste energy trying to tell them that it wouldn't make sense . . . don't know if it had to do with extra pressure on the seals, but somehow it stuck that leaned over on the side stand was "not good;" perhaps that was based in the olde conventional forks rather than the newer fork technology of the FJR??

So, one less "un-scientific" and neurotic belief to worry about . . . haven't met a motorcyclist that didn't have at least some marginal neuroses or obsessive compulsive behaviors . . . none of us are free from them. For example, possibly mr zilla has a troll mounted on his bike, in the open or hidden away, to "ward off evil" or something like that . . . out of "habit" or some kind of repetitive behaviors that are done before riding . . . it's OK you can talk about it in this thread . . . we all do stuff that "doesn't actually make sense" or isn't "based in science."

@Eagle 6:

Thanks for the thoughts on the adjustments . . . and indeed I know that suspension isn't adjusted for "parking lot speeds" . . . I don't think that's what I said, just that I got a short ride in up and down Topanga Cyn the week before last and it seemed "better" with having them in the same position. But otherwise, nope, haven't had time to mess with the FJR beyond what I did; out on the road it doesn't handle poorly enough for me to merit spending time and/or bucks to "fix it" . . . . Twenty years ago when I was trying to keep up with the gang up on the Crest Highway or on the runs to Laguna Seca I was constantly fiddling and adjusting stuff on the Kawi so it felt better and better and better, so it could go "faster" . . . now, a lot of those guys are no longer with us for one reason or another, and I just enjoy taking a putt on Saturday morning to clear the mind, switching between the FJR and the Kawi . . . if they start up, I ride them.

It was only this recent issue of the "floppiness incident" in the FJR that sparked this post . . . in all likelihood whenever the forks need to be rebuilt will be when the adjustment issues will be addressed on reassembly . . . . I'm looking for some deer whistles and a small troll in the meanwhile--you never know . . . that might **actually** work.

 

[BikerGeek99]

'Zilla wrote: You understand the forks do not work independently of each other, right?? Leaning the bike over does not work one fork more than the other. They are fixed at the same point on the same wheel.

Hmmm... After thinking aboot this for a solid 2.78 seconds, I'm wondering if the OP has one of the rare French FJRs. That WOULD explain the 'floppiness' because, well, you know. France.

Thoughts?

Discuss.

 

[Uncle Hud]

I'm thinking, "Why am I wasting my time reading this thread again?", but not in French.

 

[Eagle Six]

@Eagle 6:
Thanks for the thoughts on the adjustments . . . and indeed I know that suspension isn't adjusted for "parking lot speeds" . . . I don't think that's what I said, just that I got a short ride in up and down Topanga Cyn the week before last and it seemed "better" with having them in the same position.

Hi blakmambo,

My apology. I did not intend to imply you were adjusting for slow speed, but rereading my reply, I agree it came off like that. If I were happy with the street ride, I would concentrate of parking lot skills 1st solo and then 2-up. Working on my rear brake, clutch slip, throttle feather and head turning skills. It works pretty good for me, and is a bit different on each different bike.