2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted

[DPS]

Today’s update:

Dropped off my bike at dealer #2 last night. Like dealer#1, they claimed no prior knowledge of the surging issue. At first they insinuated that my warrantee may be void because I did my own 600 mile service. They said they would have to perform the prescribed services before they could do anything else.…blah, blah, blah. After I showed them a copy of the repair order from Dealer#1 verifying the problem, the Service Mgr got involved. I explain I’m just following lemon law guidelines requiring that I give Yamaha ample opportunity to fix the problem in a timely fashion. I agree to pay them to perform a “diagnostic evaluation” and they agree to call Yamaha for instructions first. About 3 minutes after they opened this morning I get message saying “come and pick up your bike”. They said Yamaha told them not to touch it and the repair order says: “Yamaha is aware of problem and is currently looking for a fix. Customer must wait for Yamaha to contact customer with repair” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works.

So I take the bike from Dealer#2 to Dealer#3 and go through the convoluted story all over again. As usual, they’d heard nothing about it so I show them the repair order from Dealer#1. The Service Mgr says the Yamaha rep involved is a personal friend and he won’t do anything with the bike because he doesn’t want to get “stuck in the middle” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works either. I insist that I need something in writing to that effect and he says to wait while he calls Yamaha. About 20 minutes later, he says Yamaha instructed him to “take the bike in and fix it”!!!! He says he’ll need several days to test drive it, etc.

This dealer is looking at about 120 mile round trip to the “test location”. The next time I get the bike back, Yamaha will probably have driven it more miles than I have.

All three dealers have 2007 FJR’s in the showroom for sale to any unsuspecting customer that may walk in the door.

 

[Medium Al]

Today’s updateropped off my bike at dealer #2 last night. Like dealer#1, they claimed no prior knowledge of the surging issue. At first they insinuated that my warrantee may be void because I did my own 600 mile service. They said they would have to perform the prescribed services before they could do anything else.…blah, blah, blah. After I showed them a copy of the repair order from Dealer#1 verifying the problem, the Service Mgr got involved. I explain I’m just following lemon law guidelines requiring that I give Yamaha ample opportunity to fix the problem in a timely fashion. I agree to pay them to perform a “diagnostic evaluation” and they agree to call Yamaha for instructions first. About 3 minutes after they opened this morning I get message saying “come and pick up your bike”. They said Yamaha told them not to touch it and the repair order says: “Yamaha is aware of problem and is currently looking for a fix. Customer must wait for Yamaha to contact customer with repair” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works.

So I take the bike from Dealer#2 to Dealer#3 and go through the convoluted story all over again. As usual, they’d heard nothing about it so I show them the repair order from Dealer#1. The Service Mgr says the Yamaha rep involved is a personal friend and he won’t do anything with the bike because he doesn’t want to get “stuck in the middle” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works either. I insist that I need something in writing to that effect and he says to wait while he calls Yamaha. About 20 minutes later, he says Yamaha instructed him to “take the bike in and fix it”!!!! He says he’ll need several days to test drive it, etc.

This dealer is looking at about 120 mile round trip to the “test location”. The next time I get the bike back, Yamaha will probably have driven it more miles than I have.

All three dealers have 2007 FJR’s in the showroom for sale to any unsuspecting customer that may walk in the door.

I think it's going to be tough to get a lemon law ruling here. Before going that route seriously (like before letting yet another retarded stealer mess around with your bike) I'k look into how many R1 and FZ1 owners got theirs bought back. There's something like 90+ complaints on NHTSA board about 07 R1's throttle problem alone. Anyway looking into internet forums on those bikes might give some insight. Even then I bet Yamaha can say well it's programming in the ECU you (EPA) made us do for emissions so they get a free pass to take as much time as they want to fix it. Which in the end may be the best solution.

I do believe Yamaha should not be allowing any more '07 FJR's to be sold until the problem is fixed, and I believe the rest of us should get some sort of compensation for having dealt with this and been treated like **** and missed a season of riding, not to mention the diminished resale value. Like $1K worth of free accessories or somehting. Or a new R1 every year in perpetuity.

 

[greg97224]

Today’s updateropped off my bike at dealer #2 last night. Like dealer#1, they claimed no prior knowledge of the surging issue. At first they insinuated that my warrantee may be void because I did my own 600 mile service. They said they would have to perform the prescribed services before they could do anything else.…blah, blah, blah. After I showed them a copy of the repair order from Dealer#1 verifying the problem, the Service Mgr got involved. I explain I’m just following lemon law guidelines requiring that I give Yamaha ample opportunity to fix the problem in a timely fashion. I agree to pay them to perform a “diagnostic evaluation” and they agree to call Yamaha for instructions first. About 3 minutes after they opened this morning I get message saying “come and pick up your bike”. They said Yamaha told them not to touch it and the repair order says: “Yamaha is aware of problem and is currently looking for a fix. Customer must wait for Yamaha to contact customer with repair” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works.So I take the bike from Dealer#2 to Dealer#3 and go through the convoluted story all over again. As usual, they’d heard nothing about it so I show them the repair order from Dealer#1. The Service Mgr says the Yamaha rep involved is a personal friend and he won’t do anything with the bike because he doesn’t want to get “stuck in the middle” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works either. I insist that I need something in writing to that effect and he says to wait while he calls Yamaha. About 20 minutes later, he says Yamaha instructed him to “take the bike in and fix it”!!!! He says he’ll need several days to test drive it, etc. This dealer is looking at about 120 mile round trip to the “test location”. The next time I get the bike back, Yamaha will probably have driven it more miles than I have.Yamaha is aware of the problem, the service manager where I bought my bike talked to the Yamaha rep. (probably the same one for your dealer). I do believe that Yamaha is trying to fix this problem. My dealer is in south central Washington. I have been dealing with this problem since I bought the bike in Marach. I am going to give them a little time, and then go the Lemon law route, I have already talked to a lawyer, but I hope it doesn't come to that. This could be a nice bike if this problem is corrected.All three dealers have 2007 FJR’s in the showroom for sale to any unsuspecting customer that may walk in the door.

Today’s updateropped off my bike at dealer #2 last night. Like dealer#1, they claimed no prior knowledge of the surging issue. At first they insinuated that my warrantee may be void because I did my own 600 mile service. They said they would have to perform the prescribed services before they could do anything else.…blah, blah, blah. After I showed them a copy of the repair order from Dealer#1 verifying the problem, the Service Mgr got involved. I explain I’m just following lemon law guidelines requiring that I give Yamaha ample opportunity to fix the problem in a timely fashion. I agree to pay them to perform a “diagnostic evaluation” and they agree to call Yamaha for instructions first. About 3 minutes after they opened this morning I get message saying “come and pick up your bike”. They said Yamaha told them not to touch it and the repair order says: “Yamaha is aware of problem and is currently looking for a fix. Customer must wait for Yamaha to contact customer with repair” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works.So I take the bike from Dealer#2 to Dealer#3 and go through the convoluted story all over again. As usual, they’d heard nothing about it so I show them the repair order from Dealer#1. The Service Mgr says the Yamaha rep involved is a personal friend and he won’t do anything with the bike because he doesn’t want to get “stuck in the middle” - needless to say, that’s not how our lemon law works either. I insist that I need something in writing to that effect and he says to wait while he calls Yamaha. About 20 minutes later, he says Yamaha instructed him to “take the bike in and fix it”!!!! He says he’ll need several days to test drive it, etc. This dealer is looking at about 120 mile round trip to the “test location”. The next time I get the bike back, Yamaha will probably have driven it more miles than I have.Yamaha is aware of the problem, the service manager where I bought my bike talked to the Yamaha rep. (probably the same one for your dealer). I do believe that Yamaha is trying to fix this problem. My dealer is in south central Washington. I have been dealing with this problem since I bought the bike in Marach. I am going to give them a little time, and then go the Lemon law route, I have already talked to a lawyer, but I hope it doesn't come to that. This could be a nice bike if this problem is corrected.All three dealers have 2007 FJR’s in the showroom for sale to any unsuspecting customer that may walk in the door.

 

[greg97224]

I'll try this again. I have been dealing with this **** since I bought my bike in March. Did everything I could think of to the bike. Registered complaints, still nothing. I do believe Yamaha knows of the problem, and is finally trying to get it fixed. I talked to the service manager at the dealer where I bought my bike, (in the central southern part of Washington) he was told by the Yamaha rep. that they are working on it. This is probably the same rep. to the dealers mentioned in the previous post. I am going to give them some time to get this taken care of. I have already talked to an attorney, I hope it doesen't come to that. I am as frustrated as anyone.

Greg

 

[DPS]

I'll try this again. I have been dealing with this **** since I bought my bike in March. Did everything I could think of to the bike. Registered complaints, still nothing. I do believe Yamaha knows of the problem, and is finally trying to get it fixed. I talked to the service manager at the dealer where I bought my bike, (in the central southern part of Washington) he was told by the Yamaha rep. that they are working on it. This is probably the same rep. to the dealers mentioned in the previous post. I am going to give them some time to get this taken care of. I have already talked to an attorney, I hope it doesen't come to that. I am as frustrated as anyone.Greg

You're kind of screwed in Oregon but we have one of the best lemon laws in country here in Washington. Here, documentation of any one of the following three items defines a lemon:

1) The same serious safety defect has been subject to diagnosis or repair two or more times and the serious safety defect continues to exist, or

2) the same nonconformity has been subject to diagnosis or repair four or more times and the nonconformity continues to exist, or

3) the vehicle is out of service by reason of diagnosis or repair of one or more nonconformities for a cumulative total of thirty calendar days.

Once notified of the violation, the manufacturer only has 40 days before the case goes to arbitration. We started with a claim under item#1 but, if they don't fix it this time, we'll meet the requirements of #2 or #3 at which time they don't get anymore chances, even if they do come up with a fix. Once qualified as a lemon, the manufacturer must notify the State where the title is given the "lemon" designation and can't be resold without prior disclosure to any buyer. My attorney's pretty sure that once we can document #2 or #3, Yamaha will settle as arbitrators show little mercy on "multinational corporations acting against the little guy" here in the Peoples Republic of Seattle. Anybody hear about what happened when the WTO came to town?

My bike is now in the shop for the 4th time and it has been in for repair 10 days so far. I would have been shocked if they didn't take the bike last night - they'd have been screwed otherwise. I really do think they'll come up with some type of fix, at least on my bike, in the remaining 20 days. I guessing worst case they'll start putting 2006 parts on it.

 

[ELP_JC]

Hi gang. I'm patiently waiting for Yamaha to fix our bikes, but are also following closely the legal options some folks are already pursuing. I have 2 concerns that are hard to prove, but want opinions:

1. Safety Defect. Who has the burden of proof here? Who decides if it's a safety defect or not? No accidents have been reported in our case. Is that what defines a safety defect? Anything else?

2. And how about dealer(s)/Yamaha saying they can't duplicate the problem? How can you trump that? If they can' duplicate the problem, does it count as 'out of service' according to Lemon laws?

Are there any legal specific definitions on those items which are not subject to interpretation? Just curious. Thanks.

JC

 

[christhemaster]

Hi gang. I'm patiently waiting for Yamaha to fix our bikes, but are also following closely the legal options some folks are already pursuing. I have 2 concerns that are hard to prove, but want opinions:
1. Safety Defect. Who has the burden of proof here? Who decides if it's a safety defect or not? No accidents have been reported in our case. Is that what defines a safety defect? Anything else?

2. And how about dealer(s)/Yamaha saying they can't duplicate the problem? How can you trump that? If they can' duplicate the problem, does it count as 'out of service' according to Lemon laws?

Are there any legal specific definitions on those items which are not subject to interpretation? Just curious. Thanks.

JC

Tough part is you have to prove that there is a problem. If the dealer cant replicate the problem, how can you prove it?

Yamaha is working on a solution. Just be patient. they ARE working on it.

You know, all my customers are happy and waiting for the solution. just something to think about.

Chris

 

[DPS]

Tough part is you have to prove that there is a problem. If the dealer cant replicate the problem, how can you prove it?Yamaha is working on a solution. Just be patient. they ARE working on it.

You know, all my customers are happy and waiting for the solution. just something to think about.

Chris

Where are you at? I want to be a happy customer too.

I'll agree with you on one thing - they are working on it NOW. They WERE NOT working on it last week - you may have been, but Yamaha wasn't. The problem wasn't "replicated", as you say, until last Thursday when the information was finally "forwarded to the factory".

 

[christhemaster]

Tough part is you have to prove that there is a problem. If the dealer cant replicate the problem, how can you prove it?Yamaha is working on a solution. Just be patient. they ARE working on it.

You know, all my customers are happy and waiting for the solution. just something to think about.

Chris

Where are you at? I want to be a happy customer too.

I'll agree with you on one thing - they are working on it NOW. They WERE NOT working on it last week - you may have been, but Yamaha wasn't. The problem wasn't "replicated", as you say, until last Thursday when the information was finally "forwarded to the factory".

I am in Monroe, Adventure Motorsports.

My first contact with Yamaha was on 5-31 of this year. Again needing to replicate the problem we were unable to. Even with a representative riding with my customer, they were unable to replicate the problem. Now of course it seems they have some more information, possibly enough, to fix the complaint that everyone is having.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Here is another thread with some more information that greg97224 eluded to... Clicky I'm betting that Yamaha will get moving on this now.

Good Luck to you '07 guys. It's too bad that a problem is spoiling what otherwise is an awesome bike.

--G

 

[Medium Al]

Tough part is you have to prove that there is a problem. If the dealer cant replicate the problem, how can you prove it?Yamaha is working on a solution. Just be patient. they ARE working on it.

You know, all my customers are happy and waiting for the solution. just something to think about.

Chris

Where are you at? I want to be a happy customer too.

I'll agree with you on one thing - they are working on it NOW. They WERE NOT working on it last week - you may have been, but Yamaha wasn't. The problem wasn't "replicated", as you say, until last Thursday when the information was finally "forwarded to the factory".

I am in Monroe, Adventure Motorsports.

My first contact with Yamaha was on 5-31 of this year. Again needing to replicate the problem we were unable to. Even with a representative riding with my customer, they were unable to replicate the problem. Now of course it seems they have some more information, possibly enough, to fix the complaint that everyone is having.

Chris-the-slave,

Let me explain somehting to you that you clearly do not understand. When you and/or the company you work for treats people like us like ****, who bought a very expensive product from you which doesn't work right, then we get mad at you. I find your blatant arrogance and cluelessness annoying. There are hunderds of posts here and lots of man hours been spent documenting this problem. Yet ********s like you denied it and even demanded we pay you to ride our own bikes around to duplicate the problem. When just a little customer-oriented thinking could have cleared this up 2 moths ago.

I would think now that there suddenly is a "real" problem you and Yamaha would be apologizing for all the **** you put us through, as well as fixing the friggin' bike. But no, we have to listen to you tell us how immature we are because we aren't overjoyed to wait like sheep and how we're liars and so forth. Did this approach work with the R1 owners or the FZ1 owners, when their FI systems kept failing?

I have an idea. How about you either provide us with some hard info or just STFU?

 

[mike25]

My 2 cents worth (and it's worth just that). Yamaha engineers knew in the beginning there could be problems

with the genII (and r1/fz1) bikes, but the ******* accountants overruled. Today the bean counters are running

the asylum. it can be seen everywhere. There is a fix available, and has been for awhile, but again the BC's are trying to come up with a way to do it on the cheap. Thats whats taking so long to take care of our issues.

I deal with this daily (make it cheaper), ya, we can make it cheaper. We relax the specs a little. widen the

range between good and bad parts. Next thing ya know, you get a stack-up effect of all the various parts involved.

Some bikes run OK, others not so well.

Yamaha, Please charge me more for your product, I'll gladly pay. Please just MAKE IT RIGHT. None of us need this bike,

we bought it because we believed it was the best available. Maybe we were wrong.

PS, Yamaha, I know your reading this. How about a 'leak' on on how to overcome this and other (abrupt throttle) issues.

 

[quietguy]

My 2 cents worth (and it's worth just that). Yamaha engineers knew in the beginning there could be problemswith the genII (and r1/fz1) bikes, but the ******* accountants overruled. Today the bean counters are running

the asylum. it can be seen everywhere. There is a fix available, and has been for awhile, but again the BC's are trying to come up with a way to do it on the cheap. Thats whats taking so long to take care of our issues.

I would think it's more to do with upcoming air regs and the engineering demands these place on Yamaha, Harley, Honda, et al, to manufacture products that outperform previous gens while meeting the more stringent rules. I do NOT believe us "bean counters" govern the companies of the world, we merely report the financial results and impacts.

Harley-Davidson has been fighting some significant heat issues with their big cruisers, Honda has some issues, several automobiles are running into walls as regards emission related impacts on product performance.

If you're gonna point fingers, try EPA, etc.

But (and this is a big but) every time a large maker changes a nut or a bolt on a product, and grandfathers it to previously sold product, BIG BUCKS fly out the door - not the accountant's doing, but an action any company will naturally resist - it hits the bottom line directly. So to an extent, some of what you say is correct.

... just my two beans worth.

 

[huk finn]

acouple other folks have same problems (altitude) on another forum. Guess they were riding in the alps. Their dealers know of the problem.

I dont know if posting the other forum link is taboo,,,, so "mods"delete it if it is.

link: https://www.fjrowners.ws/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4279

 

[dgerharter]

Chris-the-slave,
I have an idea. How about you either provide us with some hard info or just STFU?

I guess he decided to STFU?

 

[christhemaster]

Tough part is you have to prove that there is a problem. If the dealer cant replicate the problem, how can you prove it?Yamaha is working on a solution. Just be patient. they ARE working on it.

You know, all my customers are happy and waiting for the solution. just something to think about.

Chris

Where are you at? I want to be a happy customer too.

I'll agree with you on one thing - they are working on it NOW. They WERE NOT working on it last week - you may have been, but Yamaha wasn't. The problem wasn't "replicated", as you say, until last Thursday when the information was finally "forwarded to the factory".

I am in Monroe, Adventure Motorsports.

My first contact with Yamaha was on 5-31 of this year. Again needing to replicate the problem we were unable to. Even with a representative riding with my customer, they were unable to replicate the problem. Now of course it seems they have some more information, possibly enough, to fix the complaint that everyone is having.

Chris-the-slave,

Let me explain somehting to you that you clearly do not understand. When you and/or the company you work for treats people like us like ****, who bought a very expensive product from you which doesn't work right, then we get mad at you. I find your blatant arrogance and cluelessness annoying. There are hunderds of posts here and lots of man hours been spent documenting this problem. Yet ********s like you denied it and even demanded we pay you to ride our own bikes around to duplicate the problem. When just a little customer-oriented thinking could have cleared this up 2 moths ago.

I would think now that there suddenly is a "real" problem you and Yamaha would be apologizing for all the **** you put us through, as well as fixing the friggin' bike. But no, we have to listen to you tell us how immature we are because we aren't overjoyed to wait like sheep and how we're liars and so forth. Did this approach work with the R1 owners or the FZ1 owners, when their FI systems kept failing?

I have an idea. How about you either provide us with some hard info or just STFU?

Al the pal.

I am not an employee of Yamaha corp. I am a dealer. I have information about one guy not telling the truth. You need to provide truth to someone when you are trying to figure out a problem.

Am I denying there is a problem? No. My customer do not give me misinformation.

Instead of providing lots of man hours writing smack and i am gonna sue, document your own information and give it to the dealer to pass on. Most of what you read on the net is crap, I think you know that, and can not be used as any real nformation.

What my customers are doing is documenting the issue when it happens, what alt. speed weather temp, all good info. than pass it on to me who passes it to Yamaha. Done.

They are working on it and will fix it but please understand that they or a rep of them must see a fault haoppen so they can understand what the problem is.

Months of posts that are similar but not exact is not good information. Hard copy proof or hands on is.

They have seen the problem and are working on it. They are considerate of your and others with the issue and if you do not have a dealer willing to help you, find a new one. Simple.

Chris

P.S. I do not charge my customers to try to help them, I understand the unit is new and want to help them.

 

[Medium Al]

Al the pal.I am not an employee of Yamaha corp. I am a dealer. I have information about one guy not telling the truth. You need to provide truth to someone when you are trying to figure out a problem.

Am I denying there is a problem? No. My customer do not give me misinformation.

Instead of providing lots of man hours writing smack and i am gonna sue, document your own information and give it to the dealer to pass on. Most of what you read on the net is crap, I think you know that, and can not be used as any real nformation.

What my customers are doing is documenting the issue when it happens, what alt. speed weather temp, all good info. than pass it on to me who passes it to Yamaha. Done.

They are working on it and will fix it but please understand that they or a rep of them must see a fault haoppen so they can understand what the problem is.

Months of posts that are similar but not exact is not good information. Hard copy proof or hands on is.

They have seen the problem and are working on it. They are considerate of your and others with the issue and if you do not have a dealer willing to help you, find a new one. Simple.

Chris

P.S. I do not charge my customers to try to help them, I understand the unit is new and want to help them.

You're not getting the whole STFU thing either. Please STFU.

 

[whoomba]

you guys make me feel a lot better about my Aprilia Futura

 

[quietguy]

you guys make me feel a lot better about my Aprilia Futura

Is that made by Hyundai?

 

[BBQ]

Tough part is you have to prove that there is a problem. If the dealer cant replicate the problem, how can you prove it?Yamaha is working on a solution. Just be patient. they ARE working on it.

You know, all my customers are happy and waiting for the solution. just something to think about.

Chris

Where are you at? I want to be a happy customer too.

I'll agree with you on one thing - they are working on it NOW. They WERE NOT working on it last week - you may have been, but Yamaha wasn't. The problem wasn't "replicated", as you say, until last Thursday when the information was finally "forwarded to the factory".

I am in Monroe, Adventure Motorsports.

My first contact with Yamaha was on 5-31 of this year. Again needing to replicate the problem we were unable to. Even with a representative riding with my customer, they were unable to replicate the problem. Now of course it seems they have some more information, possibly enough, to fix the complaint that everyone is having.

Chris - Thanks to your Dealership for helping resolve this problem.