2007 Running too hot?

[escapefjrtist]

Ran into a very similar issue with my 50K mile '06 way back when. On hotter days (90F & above) it began running 5 bars at less than highway speeds and heated up quickly when running at slower speeds in stop & go traffic. Started this funky behavior all of a sudden. Coolant had been changed regularly and it had no evidence of leaks.

After closely examining the radiator it had a lot of bugs and road debris embedded deep within the core. Of note, I ride all year around and with wet PNW roads, there is always a lot of sand, organic debris and other junk on the roads. I ended up extensively back-flushing the core until no more debris would come out. I estimate I got 70 - 80% of the debris removed. While down for maintenance I also replaced the thermostat - a really easy job with the plastic off.

Long story short, with a clean(er) radiator and new thermostat the cooling system was back to "normal" behavior. Niehart is experiencing similar behavior now with his high-mile '10, so we'll probably be digging into it this winter. There's an older thread on the subject when I did shock and CCT work.

--G

 

[rbentnail]

Radiator cap (not letting pressure develop)Thermostat (opening too early/late, insufficient flow due to incomplete opening)

Radiator exterior (metal-to-air heat transfer impaired by dirt)

Radiator interior (liquid-to-metal heat transfer or internal flow volume impaired by deposits/crud)

Marginal water pump (low flow)

Fans non-functional or insufficient speed (not the cause of initial heating rate since they only come on at 8 bars or so)

Temperature sensor faulty (system just "thinks" temperature is high)

Take your pick. If you come up with the answer, post it!! I would love to benefit from someone else's experience (and time).

I hate chasing after chronic stuff that might or might not ever get bad enough to cause a problem. You can spend a bunch of money and time on something and still never determine the root cause. On the other hand, it would be really nice if it worked the same as it did 10 years ago!

Add to the list

Kinked or defective (internally swollen) coolant hose

 

[dcarver]

Ran into a very similar issue with my 50K mile '06 way back when. On hotter days (90F & above) it began running 5 bars at less than highway speeds and heated up quickly when running at slower speeds in stop & go traffic. Started this funky behavior all of a sudden. Coolant had been changed regularly and it had no evidence of leaks.
After closely examining the radiator it had a lot of bugs and road debris embedded deep within the core. Of note, I ride all year around and with wet PNW roads, there is always a lot of sand, organic debris and other junk on the roads. I ended up extensively back-flushing the core until no more debris would come out. I estimate I got 70 - 80% of the debris removed. While down for maintenance I also replaced the thermostat - a really easy job with the plastic off.

Long story short, with a clean(er) radiator and new thermostat the cooling system was back to "normal" behavior. Niehart is experiencing similar behavior now with his high-mile '10, so we'll probably be digging into it this winter. There's an older thread on the subject when I did shock and CCT work.

--G

Yep. Lots of little tiny granular pebbles led to a hot KrZy8. No way to get them all out. I tried everything too.

 

[jammess]

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to get a squirt bottle and keep it filled with hydrogen peroxide and soak down the front of the radiator before washing the bike. Just let the hydrogen peroxide do its thing for 15 or 20 minutes. Might keep the insect nasty from building up and wouldn't cost much. Those radiator fins are really fine. Might even help cut down scratches by squirting the wind screen when washing. I think I've broken a record having washed my 2010 twice in one year since I've owned it.

 

[RossKean]

Well ****!!

Went out to the bike after work today and noticed some dampness under the bike. Thought it must have been from a previous vehicle in that spot. Backed out and noticed a few drips on the pavement that followed the path of the bike.

**** some more! Smell and "feel" tells me it is antifreeze. Recovery tank empty or nearly so - explains running warmer than normal but thought the fluid level was OK.

Rode home and noticed some antifreeze smell although I was probably sensitized to any odor at all. Looked up the price of a new radiator on boats.net and had a small heart attack ($387.48 + shipping + currency exchange + duty and taxes - maybe $650 by the time I get it.) After reading about dcarver's experience with the ebay aftermarket rad, I'm not considering that as an option. I hate to buy anything like that used... What's it worth to repair a 10 year old bike with 170,000 miles on it??

Decided to top off the recovery tank with distilled water - liquid was very low and I honestly can't remember when I checked it last. (Thought it was fairly recently as per my comments when I first noticed warmer running but it may have been before this time.) I wanted to make sure that the cooling system was 100% full before I started looking for leak location. (Some have reported leaks from water pump, hoses and thermostat.) Water started pouring on the floor from a severely cracked recovery tank!!! I prefer this $25 solution to the $650 option. I'm going to take off the plastics and check it out to make sure that it is the ONLY leak in the system.

Since I have to get the recovery tank, drain the coolant and get the Tupperware off anyway, I'll do my overdue valve check and some other maintenance stuff at the same time.

 

[dcarver]

Ross, I have a professional repaired radiator you can have to test with if you want to. It's been pressure tested.

I decided against running a repaired radiator myself.. but I keep it around in case some IBR or FJR peep is on a run and has issues. This one will get one home.

Let me know. No charge except shipping.

OOPS. Should have read the entire post! My overflow tank cracked too.

 

[RossKean]

Hey Don. Really appreciate the offer!! Let's see what happens when I find the time to investigate further.
I am hoping that the recovery (overflow) tank is the only issue. I haven't been riding gravel roads lately but it only takes one pebble in the wrong place to ruin your whole day by holing the radiator! I might not have the opportunity to dig into it until the weekend. If it is the rad in addition to the recovery tank (and just a simple hole or seam crack), I might see if a local radiator shop can or will weld/solder it. I don't think I would attempt an epoxy repair.

 

[RossKean]

Just talked to two local Yamaha dealers. Neither has the recovery tank in stock. Item is apparently backordered and they are saying two weeks to get it!!

That is going to scuttle at least one trip I had planned. I guess I will try the Yamaha dealer in Houlton Maine and see if they can get it sooner. Unfortunately, the tank is badly cracked and I suspect very brittle so I don't think I would trust an epoxy repair on it and I don't think there is physically enough room to do a fibreglas wrap to seal and strengthen it.

Edit:

****!

Houlton dealer says a week or more as well! Guess I won't be riding for a while!

 

[HotRodZilla]

Ross, get on eBay. Search FJR1300 Coolant Reservoir. I had 10 hits on the first page. A few around $22.

 

[RossKean]

Thanks 'Zilla. I originally searched eBay with the part number. Got more hits with your suggested search. With shipping to Canada, I can still wait over a week and pay almost double the cost of a new tank for one that is several years old and likely almost as embrittled as the one I have. I can ship to a US address and save a bit but then I have to go and get it. (Same reservoir from 2006 to current, I believe) Note: Shipping cross-border almost always adds several days to the shipping equation and free shipping to the USA might be $20 to a Canadian address.

New USA price is only $17 or so.

I'm probably better off to order new and wait for the part from the local guys. Maybe I'll have a look at plastic welding or epoxy...

Very frustrating!

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

Rode home and noticed some antifreeze smell although I was probably sensitized to any odor at all. Looked up the price of a new radiator on boats.net and had a small heart attack ($387.48 + shipping + currency exchange + duty and taxes - maybe $650 by the time I get it.) After reading about dcarver's experience with the ebay aftermarket rad, I'm not considering that as an option. I hate to buy anything like that used... What's it worth to repair a 10 year old bike with 170,000 miles on it??

I checked online and $CDN radiator is $486 - in case you actually need one. Overflow tank is obviously a cheaper solution.

 

[RossKean]

By the time you do taxes and shipping, my estimate wouldn't be far off getting it from a USA supplier. ($648.59 from that site)

In any case, the overflow tank is definitely the problem and I am having a great deal of difficulty getting one locally in a reasonable amount of time. I don't think they are in stock in Canada. If they have them available at the site you provided, the shipped cost would be $57.25 for the overflow tank.

 

[Donal]

So....... just what is so special about the OEM overflow tank?

As a temporary measure wouldn't any old bottle (that fits in the space) do the job?

 

[RossKean]

So....... just what is so special about the OEM overflow tank?
As a temporary measure wouldn't any old bottle (that fits in the space) do the job?

They key words are "that fits in the space". I think you would need the cap with the suck-back hose to be reasonably snug and you would have to make some provision for venting - air and potential overflow fluid have to be able to go somewhere or the system won't work. Heavy plastic and a snug fit or the bottle would chafe through due to vibration against the metal. I have given it some thought and I think I might try to Band-aid a solution.

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

I just bought a 2011 TB assembly off an EBay seller in Nisku, AB. He has an overflow tank from the same bike: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/EB164-2011-11-YAMAHA-FJR-1300-COOLANT-OVERFLOW-BOTTLE-RESERVOIR-/291832238380?hash=item43f28e912c

He shipped very quickly - I had the TB assy in two days and it looked like it had never been on a bike.

 

[RossKean]

I just bought a 2011 TB assembly off an EBay seller in Nisku, AB. He has an overflow tank from the same bike: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/EB164-2011-11-YAMAHA-FJR-1300-COOLANT-OVERFLOW-BOTTLE-RESERVOIR-/291832238380?hash=item43f28e912c
He shipped very quickly - I had the TB assy in two days and it looked like it had never been on a bike.

Thanks, Mr_Canoehead. I saw that one with my eBay search. It is off a 2011 so the plastic is likely in pretty good shape and I did notice it was a Canadian seller. The price ($50 including shipping) is a bit hard to swallow - plus tax, of course. Dealer wants $30 for a new one in 12 days. On-line in USA is as little as $16.50 (USD) but I have to get it here - probably take a week or more anyway.

I'm going to try a fix on the cracked one. If it holds for now, I will get one ordered from the dealer. If not, I may do the eBay one, despite the cost.

 

[mcatrophy]

... I'm going to try a fix on the cracked one...

Maybe wrap it in self-amalgamating tape? Works for temporary water pipe repairs.

 

[RossKean]

... I'm going to try a fix on the cracked one...

Maybe wrap it in self-amalgamating tape? Works for temporary water pipe repairs.

Maybe - not much room for a thick layer of anything but a thin layer might work - the self-amalgamating tape doesn't do well with abrasion so I would have to make sure it didn't chafe against anything. Hard to get any sort of adhesive to stick well to polyethylene. I was thinking about RTV silicone (might not stick) or possibly a polyurethane adhesive (sticks to most stuff). Wrap with fiberglass and epoxy (or polyester) resin might work if there is enough room. I'll have to get the tank out and have a good look. I need to see if the whole thing is very brittle and will try some spot tests to see what will stick.

 

[RossKean]

OK.

Going to order the tank from the local dealer. In the interim, I am doing an overnight experiment to see if one of two patching ideas will work. Doing this on an undamaged portion of the tank. The upper patch is a layer of fibreglass cloth covered in JB Weld. The lower patch is fibreglass with clear RTV silicone. I am going to see which adheres the best. (I also have a small blob of each of the materials without the glass.) If they both adhere, I will use the silicone because it is more flexible. I don't need the physical strength of the epoxy (JB Weld). Note: I pre-cleaned the surface with a alkaline detergent degreaser but did not rough up the surface for these tests.

Edit: Trying a third combination with cyanoacrylate adhesive + fiberglass.

The tank is quite badly cracked and the plastic appears to be very brittle. Anything I do is definitely in the temporary fix category!

Haven't had the plastics off in a couple of years. Amazing how much CRAP (dirt, pebbles, tar bits and bugs) gets collected on the foam and in the bottom where the two fairing halves join!

Trying Flickr to post the photo. Looks like it will work OK (at least until Yahoo decides they want me to pay for that too).

 

[HotRodZilla]

Nice work, trying a temporary fix. I forgot you are in Canada. Sorry about that. Not sorry that you're in Canada, but that the shipping shenanigans make a cheap, used replacement as much as a new one, and not worth the hassle.