Cal24Master
Well-known member
George Barnes is on his way towards Dallas right now. He may be there tonight or tomorrow.I was hoping to see someone here today which is near where I work in Southlake (Dallas area):
2009 Iron Butt Rally - Official Daily Reports
- Thread starter Warchild
- Start date
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IronMaiden
Well-known member
Have you ever ridden this event? I can tell you from experience, there was NO TIME to be wasted blogging, twittering or other crap...the focus is on riding, resting and getting to your **** together so you can get to the next bonus and checkpoint safely and on time. Anyone who has time to twitter is wasting it.
FJRay
Well-known member
Niehart
Pie Smuggler
Lisa, shouldn't you be on your way to check Cali check point?
mdisher
formerly Renegade, get used to it.
No, not the IBR specifically but rally's yes. Like I said in another post there is PLENTY of time, boring *** time on the interstate could easily be filled with some of this. Maybe not much time at check points or bonus locations (though I'm sure plenty of guys are checking email, calling their loved ones and what not). It might not be your cup of tea, but for some of it is pretty routine.
I agree rallying not easy, it is in fact very hard.
I don't for a minute think anyone should be typing or texting while riding and to do so would be foolish.
But calling and leaving a voice mail that is then translated -> speach to text, is simple, effective and if that's your chosen method of keeping a journal shouldn't (IMHO) be prohibited. That's all a these tools are; journal tools.
Plenty of people keep journals, perhaps less while riding in the IBR but it doesn't have to be that way.
Or I guess for now it does cause it's against the rules.
There seems to be a few areas of speculation for why this is.
- Safety being one, I don't buy that because there are safe ways to do it that are no more involved than using your GPS.
- Addressing cheating, I don't see the correlation, but if there is one and it was explained a lot of people would be less bent out of shape
- Media attention or restrictions, plenty has already been posted on LDR to debunk this logic.
- "Because if the rider is serious, they don't have time", I simply don't like this for reasons stated above.
I did read where one guy (maybe 2007 or 2005) said he was either blogging or keeping a journal and he missed a rather LARGE bonus or was late to a check point by 2 minutes. Had he not written in the journal that day he might have made it and not lost the points or the taken the penalty.
Maybe he could have skipped a bathroom stop too
My point is simply that it was his call, not the Rallymasters that is all I'm saying.
-MD
dcarver
Well-known member
Respectfully said, what about blogs that are updated via cellphone audio? Wouldn't those be OK? Aren't the riders required to call in status reports to the Rally Mistress? I would assume some call while underway, while riding. Pretty easy to do these days, and safely too. If true, then a blog could also be updated safely via audio to text transcription or via a straight audio blog?
The bottom line, IMHO, is the IBA makes the rules based first and foremost around rider safety and secondly to ensure that future events can occurr. This is a huge responsibility and one that we should all appreciate, understand, and support. As blogging technology evolves, it may be likely the rules will relax, much like the Polaroid camera vs Digital camera scenario did. Patience grasshoppers, and Thumbs Up to the IBA. Just sayin...
Hey! Thanks WC! Now you (or someone else is fine) just keep posting those screengrabs quicker (maybe every minute or so)This is all I can provide.... snapshots in time only....... I NEED SPOT ICONS!
and that should satiate my need for slow moving icons... :yahoo:
Thanks again!
p.s. ...dang...someday I hope to take a tour through aformerhouse of prostitution.....
Fixed it for ya. I think it was Skooter who said it was nothing special.
pmeysemb
Well-known member
I bet you see a few riders there tomorrow if that is indeed a bonus location. I know one for sure that should be passing through sat. a.m.
Cal24Master
Well-known member
Here is what happened, I have this from a very reliable source who is riding the rally this year:No, not the IBR specifically but rally's yes. Like I said in another post there is PLENTY of time, boring *** time on the interstate could easily be filled with some of this. Maybe not much time at check points or bonus locations (though I'm sure plenty of guys are checking email, calling their loved ones and what not). It might not be your cup of tea, but for some of it is pretty routine.
I agree rallying not easy, it is in fact very hard.
I don't for a minute think anyone should be typing or texting while riding and to do so would be foolish.
But calling and leaving a voice mail that is then translated -> speach to text, is simple, effective and if that's your chosen method of keeping a journal shouldn't (IMHO) be prohibited. That's all a these tools are; journal tools.
Plenty of people keep journals, perhaps less while riding in the IBR but it doesn't have to be that way.
Or I guess for now it does cause it's against the rules.
There seems to be a few areas of speculation for why this is.
- Safety being one, I don't buy that because there are safe ways to do it that are no more involved than using your GPS.
- Addressing cheating, I don't see the correlation, but if there is one and it was explained a lot of people would be less bent out of shape
- Media attention or restrictions, plenty has already been posted on LDR to debunk this logic.
- "Because if the rider is serious, they don't have time", I simply don't like this for reasons stated above.
I did read where one guy (maybe 2007 or 2005) said he was either blogging or keeping a journal and he missed a rather LARGE bonus or was late to a check point by 2 minutes. Had he not written in the journal that day he might have made it and not lost the points or the taken the penalty.
Maybe he could have skipped a bathroom stop too
My point is simply that it was his call, not the Rallymasters that is all I'm saying.
-MD
First, there have been problems in the past with people who have an agenda to hurt, or discredit the Iron Butt Rally and LD riding in general. It started first in a rally a few years ago when a reporter from the LA times sneaked into the riders parking area and started accessing riders GPS data without their permission. Then they interviewed a few riders and asked them leading questions to make it all sound much more dangerous than it is. After all that, they wrote a scathing article and put it in the paper that made all the riders seem like a bunch of maniacs out riding around the country without ever sleeping, speeding and endangering the lives of every law abiding citizen in the country. After that, the organizers have been very careful to make sure riders don't fall into the same trap.
This year, some person, or person's put out some blogs that were not well thought out. It really upset the people who organize the rally. Their solution was to stop all public communication from the riders, and public access to the satellite tracking pages until after the rally.
People may not agree with it, but they are not the ones who stick their necks out to put on an event like this. It is the way it is, and it is not going to change.
Wheels Up
Active member
Matt, first off, I read your rally experience as (2) MD 20-20 rallies and a 10 hour Void. This is a far cry from the level of the IBR, and a far cry from enough experience to understand big mile rallies or multi-day mindset.
Yes, I know you're a tech savy blogger. (read some of your blog, btw, nicely done.) What you're forgetting is that a large number of the riders lack your level of blogging experience, and that you lack the mindset of a winning rally rider. I'm not slamming you, just stating a fact. Riding in a rally is one thing, riding to win a completely different thing.
Second thing, do you realize Iron Maiden is an IBR vet? And a vet of many other rallies, both 24 Hr and multi-day? Her level of experience is way beyond yours in this game. Way beyond mine too, for that matter.
What you're not getting here is that the level of complexity in a long multi-day rally is huge. You're thinking about your next bonus, and constantly factoring when you have to be at the next checkpoint and constantly trying to recall the boni you chose not to do, wondering if you maybe do have time to go after some of them and maintaining awareness of your fuel, since you're far more likely to be in the middle of nowhere, at night when you need gas and maintaining the normal high level of awareness required to ride a motorcycle in all kinds of traffic and road conditions.
Are there moments or periods of lull? Sure. That's when you need to be re-assessing your plan and looking for options to gain more points. Sometimes you do have some periods where everything is sorted and you just need to ride the plan, and blogging then probably wouldn't be an issue. Thing is, those don't come on a regular basis. Trying to blog every day during a multi-day rally is just one thing you don't need to add to your mental processes. Trust me, there's enough to do w/o it. Never mind the fatigue and constant need to stay aware of your body and mental states. Screw up and get dehydrated and things go down hill fast. One little thing, like thinking about your blog when you should be remembering to fill your hydration jug at a stop, can have a huge impact on your rally, your physical and mental state.
No one rides an endurance rally to entertain others. And posting a blog during a rally has more to do with that than with keeping a personal journal, imho. You are completely comfortable blogging away while riding, but you're a minority. I've seen a lot of rally bikes, (relatively few set up for full comm/phone use, even fewer seamlessly working well), and done a fair amount of rally riding, including multi-day. Few riders have the extra time to blog. Not to be overly harsh, but judging from your rally comments on your blog, you didn't have the extra time to blog either.
That time would have been better spent on figuring out timelines and bonus options.
Canadian FJR
Canadian FJR
Coffee is poured, waiting for Day 5 report.
Canadian FJR
Canadian FJR
jmh_bhm
Member
Coffee is poured, waiting for Day 5 report.
The day 5 report just came out. It looks like eliminating the distraction of blogging was a good idea on multiple levels, especially since it appears that a large number of riders failed to calculate the correct time to make the call in bonus. IronMaiden is correct, if effectively concentrating on the ride, most riders do not have time to be distracted with composing a blog or a tweet.
robeth
Well-known member
Coffee is poured, waiting for Day 5 report.
The day 5 report just came out. It looks like eliminating the distraction of blogging was a good idea on multiple levels, especially since it appears that a large number of riders failed to calculate the correct time to make the call in bonus. IronMaiden is correct, if effectively concentrating on the ride, most riders do not have time to be distracted with composing a blog or a tweet.
Where did you see the report? I went to the IBA and IBR sites and don't see them.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Shawn
Well-known member
https://www.sierraresearch.com/mc/2009IBRDay5.pdfCoffee is poured, waiting for Day 5 report.
The day 5 report just came out. It looks like eliminating the distraction of blogging was a good idea on multiple levels, especially since it appears that a large number of riders failed to calculate the correct time to make the call in bonus. IronMaiden is correct, if effectively concentrating on the ride, most riders do not have time to be distracted with composing a blog or a tweet.
Where did you see the report? I went to the IBA and IBR sites and don't see them.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Man, we're really addicted to this...
robeth
Well-known member
Dude, thanks! Now I can enjoy my coffee.https://www.sierraresearch.com/mc/2009IBRDay5.pdfCoffee is poured, waiting for Day 5 report.
The day 5 report just came out. It looks like eliminating the distraction of blogging was a good idea on multiple levels, especially since it appears that a large number of riders failed to calculate the correct time to make the call in bonus. IronMaiden is correct, if effectively concentrating on the ride, most riders do not have time to be distracted with composing a blog or a tweet.
Where did you see the report? I went to the IBA and IBR sites and don't see them.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Man, we're really addicted to this...
.
tcfjr
Well-known member
Last edited by a moderator:
jocko87
Well-known member
Except for the part about accessing GPS info without perrmission. In riding circles that I know, and espesially one so tight knit as the IBA, a stranger messing with someones bike gets noticed and challenged. Just about everybody knows everybody who is part of the event I'm guessing. The part about the reporter and a misleading story sounds very true. I want to hear the part of the story where the reporter got beat up for messing with the bikes, leading to a negative story. (pretty sure that wouldn't happen though)
Cal24Master
Well-known member
After reading the Day 5 report, and talking to a couple of riders I can tell you that the format of the rally, and the weather have beaten many of the riders severely. The large number of people missing, or messing up the call in bonus is not a reflection of any extra activities they are doing. It is just a grind.
Skooterg fell into a classic Iron Butt trap. After pushing hard, too hard in fact, on the first leg he had to deal with having to figure out a route through very complex instructions, on rally time, without being rested. He made some bad decisions right from the start. Then he got hammered by rain and wind on the first night of the 2nd leg, and ended up taking his rest bonus a day earlier than he probably should have. Last night he got 9 hours of sleep. He is now stuck with trying to make something out of a leg that not gotten off to a good start at all.
Alan Barbic after having a good first leg got hammered by the same rain and wind as skooter did, but had the additional misfortune of having his communication headset come apart. He can hear things, but cannot communicate. This adds another dimension to the mental part because you are trying to figure out a way to fix things while doing everything else.
How tough is the rally this year? Let me tell you. You have the very best rally riders in world competing in this rally. They are all given the same instructions. They all have basically the same equipment to deal with it. But you look at where they are going and it looks like a herd of cats. Everyone is going different places.
Add to all this the things that happen that have nothing to do with riding. One rider I know lost 4,000 points at the scoring table because his camera malfunctioned. That is the difference between being well into the top 10, and being in 50th place. How much wind does that take out of a rider's sails?
I don't remember a rally that has taken it out of riders this early in the rally like this one. It is going to be a real gut check for all of them before they are done.
Tomorrow night they will all be in Santa Ana and have a chance to get the wheels back on the wagon. It is going to be tough. The Iron Butt Rally is going to be decided in the 3rd leg, as it almost always is. The question, as it always is, is whether it will be decided by the front runners running out of gas and making mistakes? Or is it going to be decided by a rider getting over the tough parts and doing a killer leg that will talked about for years to come? We are all going to find out in 6 days.
Skooterg fell into a classic Iron Butt trap. After pushing hard, too hard in fact, on the first leg he had to deal with having to figure out a route through very complex instructions, on rally time, without being rested. He made some bad decisions right from the start. Then he got hammered by rain and wind on the first night of the 2nd leg, and ended up taking his rest bonus a day earlier than he probably should have. Last night he got 9 hours of sleep. He is now stuck with trying to make something out of a leg that not gotten off to a good start at all.
Alan Barbic after having a good first leg got hammered by the same rain and wind as skooter did, but had the additional misfortune of having his communication headset come apart. He can hear things, but cannot communicate. This adds another dimension to the mental part because you are trying to figure out a way to fix things while doing everything else.
How tough is the rally this year? Let me tell you. You have the very best rally riders in world competing in this rally. They are all given the same instructions. They all have basically the same equipment to deal with it. But you look at where they are going and it looks like a herd of cats. Everyone is going different places.
Add to all this the things that happen that have nothing to do with riding. One rider I know lost 4,000 points at the scoring table because his camera malfunctioned. That is the difference between being well into the top 10, and being in 50th place. How much wind does that take out of a rider's sails?
I don't remember a rally that has taken it out of riders this early in the rally like this one. It is going to be a real gut check for all of them before they are done.
Tomorrow night they will all be in Santa Ana and have a chance to get the wheels back on the wagon. It is going to be tough. The Iron Butt Rally is going to be decided in the 3rd leg, as it almost always is. The question, as it always is, is whether it will be decided by the front runners running out of gas and making mistakes? Or is it going to be decided by a rider getting over the tough parts and doing a killer leg that will talked about for years to come? We are all going to find out in 6 days.
mdisher
formerly Renegade, get used to it.
I agree with everything you said and you're right I don't have multi-day experience (yet) and do someday hope to ride in the IBR, but am simply not in a personal position to even apply or attempt to participate in even the but-lite until maybe 2013... I have ridden a few back to back 1000+ mile days, a couple times. I've certainly not turned in every ride to the IBA nor have a lot of people. I attend the rally's that I can and soak up as much info from every veteran at every opportunityMatt, first off, I read your rally experience as (2) MD 20-20 rallies and a 10 hour Void. This is a far cry from the level of the IBR, and a far cry from enough experience to understand big mile rallies or multi-day mindset.
Yes, I know you're a tech savy blogger. (read some of your blog, btw, nicely done.) What you're forgetting is that a large number of the riders lack your level of blogging experience, and that you lack the mindset of a winning rally rider. I'm not slamming you, just stating a fact. Riding in a rally is one thing, riding to win a completely different thing.
Second thing, do you realize Iron Maiden is an IBR vet? And a vet of many other rallies, both 24 Hr and multi-day? Her level of experience is way beyond yours in this game. Way beyond mine too, for that matter.
What you're not getting here is that the level of complexity in a long multi-day rally is huge. You're thinking about your next bonus, and constantly factoring when you have to be at the next checkpoint and constantly trying to recall the boni you chose not to do, wondering if you maybe do have time to go after some of them and maintaining awareness of your fuel, since you're far more likely to be in the middle of nowhere, at night when you need gas and maintaining the normal high level of awareness required to ride a motorcycle in all kinds of traffic and road conditions.
Are there moments or periods of lull? Sure. That's when you need to be re-assessing your plan and looking for options to gain more points. Sometimes you do have some periods where everything is sorted and you just need to ride the plan, and blogging then probably wouldn't be an issue. Thing is, those don't come on a regular basis. Trying to blog every day during a multi-day rally is just one thing you don't need to add to your mental processes. Trust me, there's enough to do w/o it. Never mind the fatigue and constant need to stay aware of your body and mental states. Screw up and get dehydrated and things go down hill fast. One little thing, like thinking about your blog when you should be remembering to fill your hydration jug at a stop, can have a huge impact on your rally, your physical and mental state.
No one rides an endurance rally to entertain others. And posting a blog during a rally has more to do with that than with keeping a personal journal, imho. You are completely comfortable blogging away while riding, but you're a minority. I've seen a lot of rally bikes, (relatively few set up for full comm/phone use, even fewer seamlessly working well), and done a fair amount of rally riding, including multi-day. Few riders have the extra time to blog. Not to be overly harsh, but judging from your rally comments on your blog, you didn't have the extra time to blog either.
Cal24's response was the best argument and explanation I've seen and while I still don't like it, I accept it.
I still find the out rite ban, with the excuse "You won't be competitive" somewhat hypocritical and let me explain.
There's a "hopeless class" fer krist sake. Out of the 101 riders, the IBA freely admits there's only 10-12 "Capable" of winning. There are a bunch of riders, nay the bulk only in it to finish it, or to not DNF.
It if was about being competitive you'd have to 'qualify'
Yes it's an individual event that has changed many lives and I do long for that experience someday. When that day comes I'll be certain to capture it in my way. I thoroughly enjoy re-reading ride experiences from years past (mine as well as others) and live vicariously through them.
It just plain sucks that the actions of a few have ruined it for the majority. I was really looking forward to again living the rally vicariously through Iggy and others who went to great lengths to keep people informed of their travels, all of which had no ill intentions.
I hope we can finally put this to rest.
