2011 IBR - The Inside View

[Tucson_Nomad]

I spoke with one of the riders and yes, they can get a photo at the Four Corners monument to gather those four states. He also said that if they got individual receipts for all four states, it was worth extra points, though not a significant amount.

Color me very surprised. I never would have thought the IBR would be easier than a 48/10 ride. :huh: At the start riders were told finishers would qualify for a 48/10 cert. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't believe any normal 48/10 rider was ever allowed to bag those four states with one photo, but rather had to get a valid receipt in every state.

I'm not understanding the thought process on this one.

Me neither, Eric... it appears they are actually doing a pansy-assed 48 in 11 and getting a 48/10 cert. What is the IRB coming to? I'm taking the high road and doing a real 49/10 next year... no pansy-assed **** for me :lol:

See you in Ontario tomorrow morning, and best wishes for Celetha on the final day.

 

[pmspaul]

Color me very surprised. I never would have thought the IBR would be easier than a 48/10 ride. :huh: At the start riders were told finishers would qualify for a 48/10 cert. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't believe any normal 48/10 rider was ever allowed to bag those four states with one photo, but rather had to get a valid receipt in every state.

I'm not understanding the thought process on this one.

I can understand for rally purposes letting them use the 4 corners photo to bag the 4 states. Having just finished a 48+ ride a few weeks ago, I was required to have a valid receipt for every state.

It does seem strange to let them qualify for a 48/10 cert when they do it in 11 days, unless they documented 48 in 10. No doubt these guys & gals could have easily made a 48/10, but if they didn't do it, they didn't do it, right?

 

[user 213]

Normal rider doesn't have a rally towel to put in the picture. :huh:

Nah, just their BIKE.

In defense of the IBR riders, they pretty much lose a day with the checkpoints and rest bonuses, so it's not that big a stretch to say 48/10 for riding time available, rather than the 11 days of the overall rally.

Still, they were given a route, (not the most efficient one, but still), and could take a picture of a capital to earn both the state and the capital, (daylight only), or just get a single receipt. For riders simply wanting to finish, and do nothing beyond the minimum required to finish, it just doesn't seem like that big a deal to ride the 48 states. Not much stress. No routing or planning on what boni to bag, just sit there and twist that, deal with what ever problems you would otherwise have on a long ride. (for some that's a bunch, for others, none.)

I'm not saying the 48/10 is an easy ride, but this is the IBR! We seem to have three groups this year. The competitive riders, the riders adding points, but not even in the same class as the competitive riders, and those that just want to finish, but this year have been handed that recipe on a platter instead of having to figure it out on their own and ride for the points needed to be a finisher.

Just my take. I imagine some riders were disappointed, others stoked, by this year's format. Time will tell how this year is viewed against the other IBRs. But then again, we hardly remember who podium'd after a couple of years, so it probably won't matter much.

 

[Tucson_Nomad]

Just looking at the Spotwalla, and some of those guys in OK had better get a move on! Assuming they have to get the 4 corners monument, and stop in Laughlin to document Nevada, they have about 1,450 miles to go in the next 27 + hours. That might not seem like much, but I'm guessing that being on day 11 may add a degree of difficulty. Hopefully all of those east of the NM/TX border just woke up from a FULL night's sleep!

 

[Joel Rappoport]

Just my take. I imagine some riders were disappointed, others stoked, by this year's format. Time will tell how this year is viewed against the other IBRs. But then again, we hardly remember who podium'd after a couple of years, so it probably won't matter much.

Relativity....A few riders where I work turn a trip to the beach (260 miles) into a two day ride. Each way. It is an entirely different mindset to even think that doing a 48 state and a four corners tour combined in 11 days is a "disappointing" ride. Hell, for a lot of riders the experience isn't over at the finish as they still have to get back home. In 2009 the morning after the finish I still had to make two 1,250 mile days to get home in time to go to work on the Tuesday after labor day.

No matter where they send you or how you get there this is still the Iron Butt Rally and a Grand Adventure.

 

[Pete Bansen]

Don't even think of LD riding with a chain drive M/C unless you want to do a lot of maintenance in route.

Sorry ... This isn't even close to being true!

Accepted, a well set up shaft drive involves less maintenance but ...

A decent chain and sprocket set, with an automatic oiler will go tens of thousands of miles with no more than routine adjustment, which takes minutes.

Additionally, the whole set up can be changed out pretty fast and at modest cost. Shaft drives have their clear advantages, but if they break then, in most cases, you are toast.

Personally, I would choose a shaft drive, but I wouldn't necessarily think that it gave me much of an advantage over a good bike with a decent chain, and a rider who knew how to look after it.

+1 I've had lots of shaft drives and ride a chain-driven DL-650 in addition to an FJR. Maintaining a chain so that it will last 15 or 20,000 miles is not difficult at all. A little more work than changing the lube in a shaft drive, yes - but it is by no means a black and white issue. Final drive issues in BMW bikes have caused many people to reconsider the previously sterling reputation of shaft drive systems and, along with advances in chains and chain lubrication systems and the introduction of some really cool bikes that are chain driven, there's been renewed interest in chain drive among serious long distance riders and rallyists.

You'll see a lot more shaft drives than chains at an endurance riding event, but you can ride long distances (and rally very successfully) with a chain drive bike, no doubt about it.

 

[Bill]

But then again, we hardly remember who podium'd after a couple of years, so it probably won't matter much.

That's probably true. I can remember who won in 1991 because reading a magazine article about that years IBR was the first time that I'd ever heard of it. I can also remember who won in 1993 because Steve Attwood seemed to epitomize all that the IBR represented ( I still believe that ).

Beyond that... CRS kicked in and everything is blurred.

 

[eeksnake]

Day 10 has been posted up.

2011 Iron Butt Rally

 

[Bounce]

Three (3) near deer-strikes for me within the first 25 miles of northern California tonight... Spooked...

Go fast enough & you'll slice right through 'em. If any survive, we'll just read about heralding the dawn with tinkling brass later.

He's already done that and probably would prefer to avoid a repeat performance.

https://www.advrider.com/Fame/Deer.html

 

[wfooshee]

Well, that takes care of the four corners monument question!

It does give the rider all four states, and if they have receipts for the states the four corners photo is 40 points.

Bounce, thanks for finding that. I was thinking of it and trying to find it.

 

[DAK]

Well, that takes care of the four corners monument question!

It does give the rider all four states, and if they have receipts for the states the four corners photo is 40 points.

Bounce, thanks for finding that. I was thinking of it and trying to find it.

Tom also mentioned HUGE points, as expected, for Denver, SLC, Carson City and Sacramento. I could be way off base here but to me, that means the contenders seeking to rack up big capital bonuses well not go the 4 corners route as that makes picking up those 4 very difficult.

 

[Connieldr]

Don't even think of LD riding with a chain drive M/C unless you want to do a lot of maintenance in route.

Sorry ... This isn't even close to being true!

Accepted, a well set up shaft drive involves less maintenance but ...

A decent chain and sprocket set, with an automatic oiler will go tens of thousands of miles with no more than routine adjustment, which takes minutes.

Additionally, the whole set up can be changed out pretty fast and at modest cost. Shaft drives have their clear advantages, but if they break then, in most cases, you are toast.

Personally, I would choose a shaft drive, but I wouldn't necessarily think that it gave me much of an advantage over a good bike with a decent chain, and a rider who knew how to look after it.

+1 I've had lots of shaft drives and ride a chain-driven DL-650 in addition to an FJR. Maintaining a chain so that it will last 15 or 20,000 miles is not difficult at all. A little more work than changing the lube in a shaft drive, yes - but it is by no means a black and white issue. Final drive issues in BMW bikes have caused many people to reconsider the previously sterling reputation of shaft drive systems and, along with advances in chains and chain lubrication systems and the introduction of some really cool bikes that are chain driven, there's been renewed interest in chain drive among serious long distance riders and rallyists.

You'll see a lot more shaft drives than chains at an endurance riding event, but you can ride long distances (and rally very successfully) with a chain drive bike, no doubt about it.

Ease, quickness and availability of any RD failure repair during the IBR is also an important factor.

I am not a Bimmer pilot but I'd assume that even with Saint Supermeese having a whole replacement rear drive with him, it would still

take an experienced Bimmer mechanic with some substantial tools a lot more time to replace a rear end than it would a chain.

If I had a drive shaft failure myself having the limited mechanical skills that I do, (see tagline) I would much prefer that shaft drive rear end be repaired by a brand knowledgeable mechanic (dealer more than likely) which may or may not be anywhere near where the bike is. On the other hand, if I were carrying a spare chain with me and didn't want to replace it myself, I'd suspect even a lawn mower repair shop could probably actually replace the chain.

It would not be difficult for a failed shaft drive RD to escalate to the point of a Timebar or other DNF of the (approx $10k to run) IBR, probably much less likely the chance of that happening on a chained bike if the rider is carrying a spare chain.

With certain brands the shaft liability is even higher.

There is certainly some degree of angst amongst certain Bimmer riders going on in their head throughout the rally wondering that simply is a non-concern for other brands or even a bike with a spare chain in it's saddlebag. Those riders can worry about other things than

their RD failing and knocking them out of the rally altogether.

 

[Dilligaf0220]

Three paths; #1 Hyder, #2 Four Corners with KW on leg 2 (or something else), and #3 is ???? (As an edit, reading previous posts, maybe #3 is 48 capitals) Upcoming choices in leg 3??? From Tom, "Four corners is not an obvious path to the podium..." Wonder what that material is that he refers to in the leg 1 packet. (Edit: Again, what was in that packet that Tom refers to?) As any multi-day rally vet knows, one definitely needs to be rested before the start of leg 3. It is also stated that this rally allows for big long-distance miles. Leg 3 will give us the details and the paths

#3: Hyder and the 4 corners w/o worrying about the capitals?

Actually, I believe path #3 is the big point capitals of leg 3. To do well you need Hyder, 4 corners, or lots of leg #3 big point capitols. Decisions had to be made at Jacksonville that effected finishing position: Go to Key West??? Abandon Key West and bag big point capitals??? Dale posted about this choice somewhere already. The riders who got Hyder or Key West in legs 1 or 2 have the advantage, IF they can make a good ride during leg 3.

Bingo.

It will come down to exactly how much the bonii are for Leg 3.

If it is more than 3800pts for the same mileage as 4 corners, Frens wins.

If the pts for Denver, SLC, Carson City & Sacremento are less than 3800pts for only bagging 3 capitols, Meese wins. Ken Meese might be able to bag one or two, but going to KW porked any chance at bagging all.

Going to come down to razor thin margins (barring any serious FUBAR), but I don't think the bonii are going to be enough for Frens. They can't all be 2000pt capitols. The turning point came when Meese stuck to his 4 Corner gameplan instead of adding up the points and blowing off Key West after leaving Jax.

 

[Auburn]

Just looking at the Spotwalla, and some of those guys in OK had better get a move on! Assuming they have to get the 4 corners monument, and stop in Laughlin to document Nevada, they have about 1,450 miles to go in the next 27 + hours. That might not seem like much, but I'm guessing that being on day 11 may add a degree of difficulty. Hopefully all of those east of the NM/TX border just woke up from a FULL night's sleep!

And throw in that we are coming up on a holiday weekend. Traffic around Ontario (as well as other areas) is going to be brutal on Friday.

 

[tmc]

<br />I'm going with <br /><br />1. Frens<br />2. Meese<br />3. Peek<br />4. Jewell<br />5. Sinclair(?)<br /><br />Frens will get the Four Corners bonus, negating Meese's Hyder run. He will also get the high scoring Leg 3 capitals which Meese won't get because he went to KW at the beginning of Leg 3. Sinclair might not get 5th because he still needs Oregon for his 48.<br />

Meese is also getting the 4 corners. And I doubt Meese is just going to take it easy after KW. I really wouldn't be surprised if he snuck in a few high value capitols on his route.
If Frens is one of the riders taking the Northern tack after the 4 corners monument, he might very well collect enough points to do it, but only IF he can snag the northerly capitols AND San Ysidro. It's a tall order, but doable. Still, with Meese being +4800 and grabbing capitols, it's going to be hard to do.

 

[Joel Rappoport]

I am not a Bimmer pilot but I'd assume that even with Saint Supermeese having a whole replacement rear drive with him, it would stilltake an experienced Bimmer mechanic with some substantial tools a lot more time to replace a rear end than it would a chain.

There is certainly some degree of angst amongst certain Bimmer riders going on in their head throughout the rally wondering that simply is a non-concern for other brands or even a bike with a spare chain in it's saddlebag.

The riders carrying spare FDs can change them out rather quickly with tools they carry on the rally and they are just being prepared for what may fail, not really worried at all about the possibility. In 2009 the two riders so-equipped were riding to win and were carrying spare parts to cover themselves if the need arose. Both were/are very capable mechanics.

In my case my BMW FD had 513,000 miles on it at the start and was the very least of my worries.

 

[YellowBird]

From the Triples Online forum early this AM:

Scientists at Roswell are excited about the discovery of a time tunnel because one of them was overtaken by a '69 Trident with a Windjammer on it, on his way to work last night!

 

[Auburn]

Don't even think of LD riding with a chain drive M/C unless you want to do a lot of maintenance in route.

Sorry ... This isn't even close to being true!

Accepted, a well set up shaft drive involves less maintenance but ...

A decent chain and sprocket set, with an automatic oiler will go tens of thousands of miles with no more than routine adjustment, which takes minutes.

Additionally, the whole set up can be changed out pretty fast and at modest cost. Shaft drives have their clear advantages, but if they break then, in most cases, you are toast.

Personally, I would choose a shaft drive, but I wouldn't necessarily think that it gave me much of an advantage over a good bike with a decent chain, and a rider who knew how to look after it.

+1 I've had lots of shaft drives and ride a chain-driven DL-650 in addition to an FJR. Maintaining a chain so that it will last 15 or 20,000 miles is not difficult at all. A little more work than changing the lube in a shaft drive, yes - but it is by no means a black and white issue. Final drive issues in BMW bikes have caused many people to reconsider the previously sterling reputation of shaft drive systems and, along with advances in chains and chain lubrication systems and the introduction of some really cool bikes that are chain driven, there's been renewed interest in chain drive among serious long distance riders and rallyists.

You'll see a lot more shaft drives than chains at an endurance riding event, but you can ride long distances (and rally very successfully) with a chain drive bike, no doubt about it.

Ease, quickness and availability of any RD failure repair during the IBR is also an important factor.

I am not a Bimmer pilot but I'd assume that even with Saint Supermeese having a whole replacement rear drive with him, it would still

take an experienced Bimmer mechanic with some substantial tools a lot more time to replace a rear end than it would a chain.

If I had a drive shaft failure myself having the limited mechanical skills that I do, (see tagline) I would much prefer that shaft drive rear end be repaired by a brand knowledgeable mechanic (dealer more than likely) which may or may not be anywhere near where the bike is. On the other hand, if I were carrying a spare chain with me and didn't want to replace it myself, I'd suspect even a lawn mower repair shop could probably actually replace the chain.

It would not be difficult for a failed shaft drive RD to escalate to the point of a Timebar or other DNF of the (approx $10k to run) IBR, probably much less likely the chance of that happening on a chained bike if the rider is carrying a spare chain.

With certain brands the shaft liability is even higher.

There is certainly some degree of angst amongst certain Bimmer riders going on in their head throughout the rally wondering that simply is a non-concern for other brands or even a bike with a spare chain in it's saddlebag. Those riders can worry about other things than

their RD failing and knocking them out of the rally altogether.

Have you ever changed a chain on any stock street bike? They are almost always pinned, which means you need a grinder or file to remove the pin so you can punch out the pin to remove. Or you need a means to cut the chain. You also need the pinning tool to properly install the chain. I would not want to depend on a master link for a street bike as they are prone to failure. Gonna take about an 45 minutes to get everything done and adjusted if you have all the tools with you. This assumes you don't have to change sprokets, which usually you do with a new chain. Sprockets will add another 1/2 hour at least.

For the FJR, to change out a final drive is a matter of removing the rear wheel, removing 4 bolts, and pulling the drive. Lube the splines on the new FD, install, put the 4 bolts back on, put the rear tire on and you are under way. Probably would take about 30-45 minutes for most people.

The FD option is much easier to deal with IMHO. Pretty much fool proof. The down side is the wieght and size difference to carrying a FD unit with you.

 

[Jeff Earls]

I am not a Bimmer pilot but I'd assume that even with Saint Supermeese having a whole replacement rear drive with him, it would still take an experienced Bimmer mechanic with some substantial tools a lot more time to replace a rear end than it would a chain.

Yes, a few special tools are required like a torque wrench (or breaker bar) and some large Torx bits.

If you have those, and have already removed it once, the FD swap on late generation BMW can be done in under 20 minutes. If it is still the way the factory left it, one of the main bolts is held in with red Loctite and requires heat to remove.

 

[user 213]

It is an entirely different mindset to even think that doing a 48 state and a four corners tour combined in 11 days is a "disappointing" ride.

Yes, it is. Many of the LD community have an entirely different mindset to begin with. Beyond what you described above, there is another mindset to rallying too. Have fun, Do your personal best, and simply to WIN. That last part makes or breaks the IBR for some. And remember, the Four Corners of the US is not part of the minimum ride and most are not doing it. Only the States need to be had to be a finisher. No additional points required.

Hell, for a lot of riders the experience isn't over at the finish as they still have to get back home. In 2009 the morning after the finish I still had to make two 1,250 mile days to get home in time to go to work on the Tuesday after labor day.
No matter where they send you or how you get there this is still the Iron Butt Rally and a Grand Adventure.

Quite true and well put. I guess I prefer my adventures to be a bit grander, if I'm paying a rally fee, than what I might easily do on my own. As someone else wrote, part of the rally experience is going to and seeing places you otherwise would not see. I don't see this rally accomplishing that. That's not a slam, just my humble view on how I'd feel.