2014 Electronic Suspension Spring Rates

[pcarnut]

I have ridden two up, 190# and 140#, on both my old '08AE and '14ES. We would occasionally bottom out on the Gen2 but NOT on the '14ES. The rear shock on the ES is stiffer, without being harsher. Hypothesize all you want, the ES suspension works well...maybe not as well as a $2-3k+ aftermarket one, but as Motorcyclist Magazine says, it works well.

That's good to hear.

 

[redneckj]

We finally had a 50 degree sunny day and I took the opportunity to ride to Desert Valley Powersports in Prosser , WA and asked a tech in the service department if they had a copy of the 2014 ES Factory Service Manual (FSM). He graciously stopped what he was doing and took a few minutes with me to review the ES model's suspension spring rates. The first thing I noticed was that the fork springs were rated at a whopping 2.04 KGF/mm, double that of the 2013A forks....and the reason is that the ES only has one spring. The sole spring is in the left fork where it shares space with the compression damping adjustment. The rebound damping is in the right fork. The tech said this kind of fork setup is getting more and more common and I have heard about it in dirt bikes but not street bikes. He confirmed the single spring after looking at another section of the FSM although the parts list I looked up at home still shows dual fork springs.
The shock spring is listed at 685 lb/in which is actually less than the 708 lb spring used in the GEN2s Hard position and way less than the 976 lb spring Yamaha claims to be in the 2013A. Shock springs and their respective sag numbers, weight capacity, and resistance to bottoming can be a little to tricky to compare because of differences in base preload but the ES starts with a base preload of 14.5 mm and can be increased to a total of 22.5 mm of preload with the ES adjustment (per the Motorcyclist review). The 2013A's shock has 11.7mm of preload which is fixed. The GEN2's shock has 18.4mm of preload which is also fixed. I would guess that the ES (slightly lighter spring but slightly more total preload) spring would probably have very similar performance to the GEN2 when the shock is in the Hard position.

The ES's setup also is pretty close to how my Wilbers was orginally set up for my 2005. It had a 646 lb spring and 20mm of base preload (both verified by GP Suspension when it was rebuilt). I never rode 2-up but the shock clearly had bottomed numerous times and was very under sprung for my 225 lbs. The 646 spring was replaced by a 800 lb spring with 10mm of base preload. It is still under sprung for riding 2-up but works nicely on my 2008 for weights up to 250-275 lbs.

I think those planning on carrying over 325-350 lbs are probably going to need a much heavier shock spring and its anyone's guess how a heavier spring will work with the ES's preset damping combinations.

Just like I said many many many months ago. The suspension sounded really good but it WILL be undersprung. The big ol FJR is being sprung for a lil ol 150 lb rider. GP suspension will have to fix those bikes too.

 

[Fred W]

I have ridden two up, 190# and 140#, on both my old '08AE and '14ES. We would occasionally bottom out on the Gen2 but NOT on the '14ES. The rear shock on the ES is stiffer, without being harsher. Hypothesize all you want, the ES suspension works well...maybe not as well as a $2-3k+ aftermarket one, but as Motorcyclist Magazine says, it works well.

That's strange. I rode many miles of 2-up on my 1st gen with the stock rear shock. Our combined weights are exactly the same, but we never managed to bottom out the shock with the stock spring on it, and that is in frost heave heaven (New England) even with my penchant for going off the pavement regularly. Glad to hear it works well for you, but knowing the actual spring rates of these shocks will allow other folks to determine how well it might work for them.

<snip> FWIW when I had my Penske shock rebuilt last winter at GP suspensions they recommended I change to a 900 lb/in spring for mixed use of solo and two up. I weigh 230 lbs and my bride weighs 100 when wet. With that spring we had a pretty good, albeit sporty ride when 2 up but solo it was just unbearably stiff. Even with reducing the preload to attain 45mm of sag it felt like a hard tail when I rode it solo.

I'm in the same boat as you Fred, my Penske has an 850 spring on it now. I'm 20-25 pounds lighter than you, SO a little heavier than yours...we'll leave it at that. For one-up it works great giving a nice sporty ride and it's perfect when adding bags and trunk for trips. Two-up with bags and trunk, I need to add 7 mm of preload and 6 mm of ride height. I've ordered a 950 spring and plan to use that for two-up touring with bags and trunk. We'll see if it's too much...at least springs are cheap and easy to change.

--G

If you think you want to try a 900 pounder I have a nearly new one just one sitting here gathering dust. It's an Eibach spring and is considerably shorter than the 800 lb HyperPro I have on there now. But it works fine with a Penske shock with the threaded preload adjusters.

BTW - You are right about easy to change. The worst part is just getting the shock off and then back on.

 

[road runner]

I have the Ohlins remote adjust, and I weigh 200 lbs. I have a 900lbs spring in the shock and it's a little harsh around town, but it loves warp speed. I also have a Givi and carry some gear all the time. I think I'm running between 40mm and 45mm rider sag I would have to check my notes. I like a firm sporty ride and it is that.

 

[Fred W]

I kind of remember you not being too thrilled when you first got your Ohlins, Art. Did it grow on you or did you get it dialed in better?

I wish I had an Ohlins (instead of my Penske) or other shock with the remote preload. Even though Josie doesn't weigh all that much, adding 100lbs on the back makes a pretty large difference. I've just decided to optimize the bike for 1-up and then just live with whatever I get when she comes along.

What would be really good would be to be able to test ride a bunch of the same generation bikes with the same rear shocks but different rate rear springs, all properly setup with the preloads adjusted for the correct (same) sag and damping adjusted to suit. The problem with doing it sequentially on your own bike is it takes a while to re-adjust the damping and get everything dialed in for the different spring and by then you kind of forget exactly what it used to feel like.

 

[Iris]

"I have the Ohlins remote adjust, and I weigh 200 lbs. ....."

Wholly Cow, you weigh 200 lbs? ;-)

 

[MCRIDER007]

I have ridden two up, 190# and 140#, on both my old '08AE and '14ES. We would occasionally bottom out on the Gen2 but NOT on the '14ES. The rear shock on the ES is stiffer, without being harsher. Hypothesize all you want, the ES suspension works well...maybe not as well as a $2-3k+ aftermarket one, but as Motorcyclist Magazine says, it works well.

That's strange. I rode many miles of 2-up on my 1st gen with the stock rear shock. Our combined weights are exactly the same, but we never managed to bottom out the shock with the stock spring on it, and that is in frost heave heaven (New England) even with my penchant for going off the pavement regularly. Glad to hear it works well for you, but knowing the actual spring rates of these shocks will allow other folks to determine how well it might work for them.

I think there is a plausible explanation. According to our bin-of-facts the GEN1 and GEN2 have the same "Hard" spring but the 08AE is a slightly heavier bike with a longer swingarm. In addition, even though you may be carrying the same combined weight, the distribution of 40 pounds of that weight is quite different. Those factors, when combined, probably makes a difference of 50-75 lbs in the effective spring rate.

I wish I had an Ohlins (instead of my Penske) or other shock with the remote preload. Even though Josie doesn't weigh all that much, adding 100lbs on the back makes a pretty large difference. I've just decided to optimize the bike for 1-up and then just live with whatever I get when she comes along.

I have a Wilbers with a 800 lb spring and a remote preload..........do you want to trade? No, you really don't. The Penske's independent compression and rebound damping with 10mm of ride height adjustment trumps my Wilbers. Set the preload and compression damping for riding solo, then use the ride height adjuster to keep the steering geometry consistent when you have a passenger (takes about 5 minutes) and dial in another 4-8 clicks of compression damping.

 

[GeorgiaRoller]

I have ridden two up, 190# and 140#, on both my old '08AE and '14ES. We would occasionally bottom out on the Gen2 but NOT on the '14ES. The rear shock on the ES is stiffer, without being harsher. Hypothesize all you want, the ES suspension works well...maybe not as well as a $2-3k+ aftermarket one, but as Motorcyclist Magazine says, it works well.

You do realize this comment will be regarded as crazy talk on this forum from the peanut gallery correct?

 

[road runner]

When I first got the shock it wasn't a perfect match for me. It had an 850 lbs spring, and the hydro adjust had some air in it. also I don't know how much initial preload was on the spring at install. So I had to run with the hydro almost all in to get the ride I liked.

Sent it to Traxxion the rebuilt it and they put a 900lbs spring in because I was still scraping to much. It was better, but still not perfect, so last year I did some checking. I found the spring installed only had 7mm initial or installed preload and still had air in the hydro preload adjuster. So I took it apart and installed the spring with the 10mm preload it called for, and bled the hydro adjuster so now it moves more, and gives me 9mm more instead of the 6 more it was doing. Now I can go from 1up empty to 2up loaded and have enough adjustment. before I had it nice for 1up loaded, but not enough adjust for 2up loaded.

I ran last year and never really had to mess with the suspension. It was awesome all year! Although 1up all year.

 

[Allen_C]

I have ridden two up, 190# and 140#, on both my old '08AE and '14ES. We would occasionally bottom out on the Gen2 but NOT on the '14ES. The rear shock on the ES is stiffer, without being harsher. Hypothesize all you want, the ES suspension works well...maybe not as well as a $2-3k+ aftermarket one, but as Motorcyclist Magazine says, it works well.

You do realize this comment will be regarded as crazy talk on this forum from the peanut gallery correct? :fool:

Yep, and I do not care.

 

[GeorgiaRoller]

I have ridden two up, 190# and 140#, on both my old '08AE and '14ES. We would occasionally bottom out on the Gen2 but NOT on the '14ES. The rear shock on the ES is stiffer, without being harsher. Hypothesize all you want, the ES suspension works well...maybe not as well as a $2-3k+ aftermarket one, but as Motorcyclist Magazine says, it works well.

You do realize this comment will be regarded as crazy talk on this forum from the peanut gallery correct?

Yep, and I do not care.

I'm with ya 100%!!! They're just jealous!!!

 

[BigOgre]

<snip> FWIW when I had my Penske shock rebuilt last winter at GP suspensions they recommended I change to a 900 lb/in spring for mixed use of solo and two up. I weigh 230 lbs and my bride weighs 100 when wet. With that spring we had a pretty good, albeit sporty ride when 2 up but solo it was just unbearably stiff. Even with reducing the preload to attain 45mm of sag it felt like a hard tail when I rode it solo.

I'm in the same boat as you Fred, my Penske has an 850 spring on it now. I'm 20-25 pounds lighter than you, SO a little heavier than yours...we'll leave it at that. For one-up it works great giving a nice sporty ride and it's perfect when adding bags and trunk for trips. Two-up with bags and trunk, I need to add 7 mm of preload and 6 mm of ride height. I've ordered a 950 spring and plan to use that for two-up touring with bags and trunk. We'll see if it's too much...at least springs are cheap and easy to change.

--G

If you think you want to try a 900 pounder I have a nearly new one just one sitting here gathering dust. It's an Eibach spring and is considerably shorter than the 800 lb HyperPro I have on there now. But it works fine with a Penske shock with the threaded preload adjusters.

BTW - You are right about easy to change. The worst part is just getting the shock off and then back on.

Well, it is the hot-stove season. G, if after you deal with Fred and then maybe want to part with your 850 let me know. If changing the spring is as straight-forward as it sounds, I'd be interested in seeing the difference between that and my year-old 900 Eibach.

 

[RaYzerman19]

IMHO one should be careful making comparisons to different length springs..... to me a stronger and longer spring will soak up bumps better than a short stronger one, or, e.g., a Gen II set on hard. My RaceTech shock has a much stronger spring (900-1000 lb?), which gives a plusher ride.

Allen, do you care enough to answer the questions I asked.... I care and was serious.

 

[Bustanut joker]

I thought this was about the new magic on the '14's..... As it looks now it's the same debate with different words beat to death 640.000.000 times here..

 

[Allen_C]

IMHO one should be careful making comparisons to different length springs..... to me a stronger and longer spring will soak up bumps better than a short stronger one, or, e.g., a Gen II set on hard. My RaceTech shock has a much stronger spring (900-1000 lb?), which gives a plusher ride.
Allen, do you care enough to answer the questions I asked.... I care and was serious.

I indicated the settings u sed for my subjective testing on my riding impressions thread: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/155533-riding-impressions-of-2014-es/

Let me know what additional info you seek. Remember the suspension settings do not translate from the '14ES to any other FJR.

 

[escapefjrtist]

<Big Snip> If you think you want to try a 900 pounder I have a nearly new one just one sitting here gathering dust. It's an Eibach spring and is considerably shorter than the 800 lb HyperPro I have on there now. But it works fine with a Penske shock with the threaded preload adjusters.

--hijack--

Fred -- Interested in the spring, sent you a PM for specifics.

BTW, your CT is doing well in it's proper place!

--G

 

[SkooterG]

IMHO one should be careful making comparisons to different length springs..... to me a stronger and longer spring will soak up bumps better than a short stronger one, or, e.g., a Gen II set on hard. My RaceTech shock has a much stronger spring (900-1000 lb?), which gives a plusher ride.
Allen, do you care enough to answer the questions I asked.... I care and was serious.

Ok. I'll bite. If a spring compresses 1" with 800 lbs of force what difference does it make if it long or short?

Lots of mental masturbation in this thread on a topic which is as much art as it is science.

It's winter time, but then its going to be in the high 60s around here tomorrow and I'll be out riding.

 

[Fred W]

The title of the thread is 2014 Electronic Suspension Spring Rates If we can't talk and compare the new springs to what we already know about other springs, what good is the thread. If you don't want to read the technical stuff, stop reading it.

I agree with Skooter, I don't see how the length of a spring matters in the least.

 

[RaYzerman19]

In pure terms you're likely right... I guess my brain raced ahead without the middle info..... I meant, more compliance without bottoming out.... the aftermarket shock is one long spring, the GenII or '13/'14A shock is kinda a two-piece thing with a hard/soft setting. The hard setting compresses the upper part to nearly having no space between the coils..... spring in effect is shorter, less space between the coils and can bottom out a lot sooner. The RaceTech was immediately noticable to be much more plush but still firm.

Allen, thanks, I'm a bit unclear on the ES Hard, Standard, Soft as Yammy says there are 4 preloads for the rear shock...... no worries, I will have to read up a '14 manual to dig into it deeper (settable within the sub-menu?). Just concerned that for my riding style I'm not maxing out on the preload, would rather be in the middle somewhere to maximize compliance yet still have that firmer setting, kinda, if you know what I mean.

 

[Allen_C]

The rear has four preload settings: 1up 'm o luggage, 1up with luggage, 2 up no luggage, 2up with luggage. Rebound and dampening (I believe) have 3 settings: Hard, Standard, and Soft, each with 7 variants (-3 thru +3).