27K Valve adjustment needed...

[SkooterG]

I've been following the various FJR forums for nearly three years now and I can't recall a single case of any FJR owner reporting that their bike required any adjustment at the 26K valve check point.

Well......apparently you haven't been following close enough. On several occasions I have reported that one shim was changed on my FJR during the first 26k valve check. The 2nd check at 55k also led to one shim being replaced. Interestingly, both times it was the #4 cylinder. One time on an exhaust valve, one time on an intake valve.

He said he would just tell them he had done the valve adjustment check himself,

Well then, that makes him a F***ing liar. No wonder dealers and service managers don't trust customers. :angry:

He said there is no way for the dealer to disprove that the work hadn't been done.

That is not necessarily true. I was once told by a mechanic I trust that he could tell if a valve cover has never been taken off. Something about how the factory puts it together. Either markings, type of gasket, or adhesive used. That was on another brand, but likely carries over to all. Something maybe Warchild can ask the Sunnyside techs about.

Its a specified service. Granted, based on anecdotal evidence it would be extremely rare - but a tight valve could lead to very bad things for the motor. I really can't believe someone would not have the service performed when required. The way people obsess about "the tick" and type of oil used, I would think following the recommended check of some of the internals of the engine would be a no brainer.

Another thing to ponder. When on my last valve check they needed to get a new valve cover gasket and found out it was on back order for several weeks, my dealer called all the Phoenix area dealers to see if any of them stocked one. NOT ONE other dealer stocked the valve cover gasket for the FJR (according to my delaer). This led him to wonder how many of these dealers *say* they have performed a valve check, when in all actuality, they didn't even touch it.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I asked him what would happen if he had a "ticking" problem or other internal engine problem develop (he has the extended Yamaha warranty) and the dealer found out that the valve adjustment check had not been done.  He said he would just tell them he had done the valve adjustment check himself, that there was a Federal law that prohibits a vehicle manufacturer from voiding a warranty due to work not being performed by a dealer, even if the work is done by the owner.  He said there is no way for the dealer to disprove that the work hadn't been done.

I don't think that valve clearances being out of spec is going to cause the tick but loose valves can make their own ticking sound that can be corrected with a valve adjustment (as long as the cam wasn't damaged) but very tight valve clearances can lead to burned valves. If someone does their own valve adjustment and later ends up with a burned valve, it is going to be very difficult for that person to "prove" that they did the valve adjustment correctly because the result will show that they didn't. A home mechanic is going to be held responsible for the damage caused by bad work just like a dealer would.

My personal opinion is that if you check the valve clearances yourself and they are in spec, you don't need to worry about documenting it because the valve clearances are not going to change enough before the next valve check to cause any problems. If a tick or some other problem develops then the dealer is also going to find the valve clearances are in spec when he opens the engine and whether the valve adjustment was documented will not be an issue. This assumes that the valve check/adjustment was done correctly.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Due to EPA regs of the last decade, or so (get the lead out, for example) -- valve faces and valve seat materials have gotten way more durable than in previous decades. IME, the instances of "out of tolerance" valve clearance in modern engines has proven to be minimal.

SkooterG Posted on Feb 23 2006, 10:05 AM

I was once told by a mechanic I trust that he could tell if a valve cover has never been taken off.

There's a kernel of truth to that: really good techs pride themselves in doing work that's so good it would be difficult to tell they'd been in there. Likewise, they can usually tell if poor work's been done.

SkooterG Posted on Feb 23 2006, 10:05 AM<snip>

This led him to wonder how many of these dealers *say* they have performed a valve check, when in all actuality, they didn't even touch it.

That's referred to, in the trade, as a "wall job"......

 

[bigdolma]

This led him to wonder how many of these dealers *say* they have performed a valve check, when in all actuality, they didn't even touch it.

I agree with you SkooterG. They said a valve adj job was done on an earlier FJR and they were out of stock on the gaskets. Thus they asked for a postponment.

Once all was done and happy, they called and said the this O ring below (from Torch's write up)

broke and they do not have it in stock so they have to order some from yama mama werehouse. So I have to wait. So far the honesty seems to be goin great from the dealer.

He did say over the phone the 3rd cylinder (valve) needed a shim, but the exact specs details will be given tomorrow when I pick up.

One thing I do not understand and seems a little misleading guys is that why on earth they want us to change plugs, or even maybe the coolant on around 24k miles when you can do the whole enchilada @ 26K including the valves.

Armand

 

[FlyingLow]

Okay, I've read this entire thread on valve adjustment ideology and had to chime in, FNG status notwithstanding:

Most of the posts read "Okay, so I'm gonna take my sickle to the dealer and..."

Doesn't anyone do their own valve adjustments?

A little background info is in order: I've owned 3 other liter-class bikes over the years, '81 Honda CB900F, '84 FJ1100, and a '95 Kawasaki GPZ1100. All were shim over bucket. The first 2 took a special tool to hold the valve open so you could fish out the shim with tweezers. The Kawi was stupidly easy with shaft mounted, spring loaded rocker arms that were simply pushed out of the way to get the shims out. Then it was off to the dealership service desk with a micrometer in hand to trade shims. Never had a problem with doing this and was always happy with the results.

So now, my '05 ABS is about halfway to its first required valve clearance check and when I get to that point, hell yeah I'm gonna do it myself. Though with somewhat baited [sp?] breath because I'm looking at a shim under bucket set-up and a lot of crap to remove before I even get to that point.

I will do it myself, likely next winter, largely because I'm poor and that's $500 better spent on farkles and other good stuff. But there is also a great amount of pride working here, too. Instead of trusting dealership hacks and keeping your fingers crossed that it turns out okay [some here have found good mechanics] you do it yourself and you know, in your mind, that it is done correctly.

I hope I didn't come across as sounding all high and mighty. If you can afford to pay to have it done and trust the people doing it, more power to you.

 

[SkooterG]

Instead of trusting dealership hacks and keeping your fingers crossed that it turns out okay [some here have found good mechanics] you do it yourself and you know, in your mind, that it is done correctly.

Yeah, its easy......if you know how to freaking do it. Most of us around here don't, Mr Ace Mechanic. I mean dude, I don't even own a freaking micrometer.

I would be more than happy to let you teach me how someday, though.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Yeah, its easy......if you know how to freaking do it.  Most of us around here don't, Mr Ace Mechanic.  I mean dude, I don't even own a freaking micrometer.
I would be more than happy to let you teach me how someday, though.

Agree, most of the maintenance is not that difficult to do if you have the time and opportunity to watch someone else do it once. Japanese service manuals seem to be written for techs that have already been to a mechanic school rather than for a home mechanic who is trying to do it the first time.

 

[SkooterG]

Agree, most of the maintenance is not that difficult to do if you have the time and opportunity to watch someone else do it once. Japanese service manuals seem to be written for techs that have already been to a mechanic school rather than for a home mechanic who is trying to do it the first time.

:clap:

Why just last weekend that mulleted psycho twowheelnut showed vectervp1 and I how to take off the forks and replace the springs. A class act and stand up dude he is, even if he appears otherwise.

I had never done anything with the forks before, so was a bit hesitant to do tackle them by myself, not wanting to screw anything up. Now that I have been there done that - no problemo in the future.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Screw something up just once and you will find that the frustration level alone is worth somebody else doing it for you and doing it right the first time. The old saying goes "Never time to do it right but always time to do it over."

 

[MCRIDER007]

One thing that I forgot to mention is that some maintenance tasks almost require access to an enclosed locked garage. I wouldn't mind changing engine oil or fork oil in a parking lot or carport where I knew I was going to be able to complete the job and put it back together before it gets dark but opening up the engine to do a valve check/adjustment and knowing you may have to leave it open a while to run to a dealership to get the necessary parts, is a much different matter.

 

[FlyingLow]

Thankfully we only have to deal with this every 26K miles [twice a years for the IBA guys here].

Past experience shows that once an engine has broken in and out of spec clearances have been corrected, they tend to stay put. Not too hard to check valves but bitch to replace shims under bucket.

 

[twowheelnut]

Agree, most of the maintenance is not that difficult to do if you have the time and opportunity to watch someone else do it once.  Japanese service manuals seem to be written for techs that have already been to a mechanic school rather than for a home mechanic who is trying to do it the first time.

:clap:

Why just last weekend that mulleted psycho twowheelnut showed vectervp1 and I how to take off the forks and replace the springs. A class act and stand up dude he is, even if he appears otherwise.

I had never done anything with the forks before, so was a bit hesitant to do tackle them by myself, not wanting to screw anything up. Now that I have been there done that - no problemo in the future.

Uh, dude? Can one be follicly challenged and still have a do called a 'Mullet'? :dntknw:

 

[bigdolma]

Just brought the bike back from YOC.

The services performed on the bike were:

Valve adjustment, Front Forks replaced to the Wilbers, and stearing bearing adjustment.

First, I visually inspected the bike for any scratches or anything out of the odinary...no problems there.

Then I had a conversation with Bill the head mechanic who is the only one allowed to touch the FJRs.

He said the number 2 and number 3 valves off. As he was placing the TBar back on, he noticed the frame bolt was cross threaded. He went out of his way to repair it he said because "I treat these bikes as if they are my own". He did not even charge me for that work he did. The reason the bike was delayed he said was because of a $1.38 o-ring which was a special order. This o'ring caused the minor coolant leak during test run

Parts used:

932102378700 o'ring qty 1 $1.38 each

932101841700 o'ring qty 2 $1.56 each

AND

I think the Gasket qty 2 $7.99 each.

8 hours for the valves at $60/hr $480

2 hours for the forks at $60/hr $120

Guys, Bill's honesty alone bought him my trust and the knowledge on the bike bought him a new customer. I totally recommed these guys for any service you do on the FJRs. Very honest and very proffesional.

If I knew how to do the valves, I would have saved that money. But they sure look complicated for me. Maybe next time....

The bike runs very smooth, runs great and I am ..a happy customer!

Go YOC!

:good: :good: :good: :good:

 

[Toecutter]

Just brought the bike back from YOC.
8 hours for the valves at $60/hr $480

Go YOC!

:good: :good: :good: :good:

Since my local shop charges $70/hour, it would save me money to ride down there, even with the gas costs. I guess I could just tent camp in their parking lot until it was ready.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Since my local shop charges $70/hour, it would save me money to ride down there, even with the gas costs. I guess I could just tent camp in their parking lot until it was ready.

I don't know how much you would actually save, 8 hours seems like a lot of labor to complete a valve adjustment, even if both camshafts had to be removed -- and if the valves do not need adjustment, which is the case most of the time, the labor involved in much less.

 

[Toecutter]

I don't know how much you would actually save, 8 hours seems like a lot of labor to complete a valve adjustment, even if both camshafts had to be removed -- and if the valves do not need adjustment, which is the case most of the time, the labor involved in much less.

Well, since the difference is $10.00/hour and the fuel would run about $30.00, I'd break even at 3 hours, not to mention an exhilarating 450 mile road trip and the comfort in knowing your bike's being worked on by the arguably most competent FJR service dept. in the state.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Well, since the difference is $10.00/hour and the fuel would run about $30.00, I'd break even at 3 hours, not to mention an exhilarating 450 mile road trip and the comfort in knowing your bike's being worked on by the arguably most competent FJR service dept. in the state.

Unless you were serious about camping in the parking lot, you would also need a motel for at least one night, the engine has to be "stone cold" to do the valves.

 

[Toecutter]

Well, actually, I was hoping for an accomodation invite from one of the local assistance club buddies.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Well, actually, I was hoping for an accomodation invite from one of the local assistance club buddies.

That sounds like a good strategy. If you decide you could have a better ride, save more money, or have greater piece of mine by going north for 800 miles to Sunnyside Yamaha then consider yourself invited to stay with me. That might be something to think about if you want to make a trip to Banff.

 

[Toecutter]

If you decide you could have a better ride, save more money, or have greater piece of mine by going north for 800 miles to Sunnyside Yamaha then consider yourself invited to stay with me.  That might be something to think about if you want to make a trip to Banff.

Sweet! Sunnyside was actually my plan"A" until Longrider got his bike repaired at Wilson's in Fresno after they noticed a noise once the valve adjustment was completed. Since then, I have learned that Yamaha of Cucamonga is a top notch FJR service facility as well. So, do I need to put my bike in the shop or would it just be O.K. to sleep over on a visit? I've always heard the area is gorgeous in summer! I'm looking at another 26,000 miles before I need an adjustment, once I get the bike back home from Wilson's, so I might not want to wait until it needs work again to head up that way.