2nd/3rd Gen Mirror Spacers & LED Light Brackets

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I swapped out my Gerauld brackets for a set of Clearwater brackets & they practically eliminated all the bounce I had. Very good quality brackets but the angle of them was a little disappointing. The bottom is nicely perpendicular to the ground but they angle forward about 110 degrees instead of 90 degrees to the bike. Gerauld has dimensions down pat & they are perfectly sculped to the contour of the nose panel & finish mounting at a 90 degree angle; they just need to be thicker stock to handle the weight of the Kristas. So I have my solid mount for the lights, just need to deal with my elbows in the mirrors. I haven't weighed & measured the Kristas yet, Fred, but I'll try to soon & let you know.

Photos?
Please Scoot, have you not been paying attention to my cluster f*** posts when I try to put pictures up here!! I'm at work right now so worst case I'll try to put another link to photoshop up here tomorrow & Iggy can fix it agin.
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MDFJRRider, I have a good stock of the rubber material. If you would like enough of the material to make your own spacers, send me a PM with your address and I will send you some stock. If you decide to install FZ1 mirrors, make sure you get the real Yamaha ones not the ones made in China. Do a little research and you will be able to get them from one of the on-line parts sellers for far less than the stealers charge. I think I paid $37.50 each but do not recall the seller.

 
This is going a bit of a tangent to the mirror spacer design I'm working on, but why would you use rubber for the spacer material? It would seem like it would be more apt to allow the mirrors to flex and vibrate.

As an alternate to the scheme I'm working on, it might make sense to have a precision metal spacer to put under the FZ1 mirrors for the 3rd gens.

How much stud did you have left on the FZ1 mirrors when they are spaced out to the faring? Reason I'm asking is I'd like to know If there is still enough stud length to slip an aux light mounting bracket under the mirror base, between the mirror and the spacer?

 
I agree Fred, rubber is not what you want to use as a spacer. A good phenolic material would be best, also won't damage the paint underneath.

 
The 1/8" rubber material is perfect for mounting the FZ1 mirrors. Note, the mirror base has an off-set of 1/8" on the two threaded studs. If you were to mount the mirrors without this material it will stand 1/8" off the fairing base. I discovered this when mounting FZ1 mirrors on my 07. The mirrors do not vibrate at any speed. They are just as firm as the stock mirrors in my opinion. The FZ1's are less likely to suffer damage than the stock mirrors on a tip over. If they do happen to get damaged, they are cheaper to replace and no worry about colour matching.

As for the length of the studs, when cinched up there is only a thread or two showing. There are not enough threads to mount a bracket in my opinion. I do not know how the studs are fastened to the mirror base. If threaded in, perhaps they could be replaced with longer studs.

 
Thanks Art. The studs not being long enough is a bummer. They are swaged, cast or pressed into the mirror base, not easily removed or swapped out. Extending them by such a small amount would be difficult too. FZ1 mirrors are sounding less attractive if you also want to hang some lights up there.

Meanwhile, we are continuing to look at options for extending the stock 2nd/3rd gen mirrors per the thread title and 1st post.

 
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Fred, what about some sort of female threaded extenders to go onto the FZ1 mirror studs? This might enable you to add to the length to space out the ZZ1 mirrors sufficiently to incorporate the light mounts. The female portion would have to be a larger O.D. but they could then step back down to the OEM size to go through the stay and use the factory nuts?

Just thinking out loud.

Why do you feel the FZ1 mirrors work better in the tip over scenario?

 
Fred, what about some sort of female threaded extenders to go onto the FZ1 mirror studs? This might enable you to add to the length to space out the ZZ1 mirrors sufficiently to incorporate the light mounts. The female portion would have to be a larger O.D. but they could then step back down to the OEM size to go through the stay and use the factory nuts?
Yeah, that is how SW Motech does it with their version of mirror spacers. But their spacers move the mirror base out by ~ and inch or more, so they provide the room for those female threaded stud extenders. Because the length of the existing studs is close to what you'd need with just the light brackets and small faring level spacers added, you'd end up having to cut back (shorten) the FZ1's studs, then extend them to the right length to get the female part of the adpater to clear and have usable male threads inside the subframe at the mounting points.

Just thinking out loud. Why do you feel the FZ1 mirrors work better in the tip over scenario?
The FZ1 mirror's hinge (under the rubber boot) is at an angle to the horizon. The mirror folds upwards and back towards the bike. So, when you drop the bike the mirror just folds instead of breaking the subframe it is mounted to. I have (unfortunately) tested that particular "feature" on a couple of occasions on Ol' Blue.

FWIW, the stock 1st Gen mirrors had the same angle of folding, so they also tend to fold back in a drop situation. But just like the stock 2nd gen mirrors, they provide an excellent rearward view of one's arms and elbows.
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Fred, what about some sort of female threaded extenders to go onto the FZ1 mirror studs? This might enable you to add to the length to space out the ZZ1 mirrors sufficiently to incorporate the light mounts. The female portion would have to be a larger O.D. but they could then step back down to the OEM size to go through the stay and use the factory nuts?
Yeah, that is how SW Motech does it with their version of mirror spacers. But their spacers move the mirror base out by ~ and inch or more, so they provide the room for those female threaded stud extenders. Because the length of the existing studs is close to what you'd need with just the light brackets and small faring level spacers added, you'd end up having to cut back (shorten) the FZ1's studs, then extend them to the right length to get the female part of the adpater to clear and have usable male threads inside the subframe at the mounting points.

Just thinking out loud. Why do you feel the FZ1 mirrors work better in the tip over scenario?
The FZ1 mirror's hinge (under the rubber boot) is at an angle to the horizon. The mirror folds upwards and back towards the bike. So, when you drop the bike the mirror just folds instead of breaking the subframe it is mounted to. I have (unfortunately) tested that particular "feature" on a couple of occasions on Ol' Blue.

FWIW, the stock 1st Gen mirrors had the same angle of folding, so they also tend to fold back in a drop situation. But just like the stock 2nd gen mirrors, they provide an excellent rearward view of one's arms and elbows.
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I'll throw my .02 in here as I can imagine one day I'll be looking to use these myself. If I knew of a good home for my '04 or the '15 really blows me away, might be sooner rather than later.

The OEM mirrors are definitely nicer looking but I like the functionality of the FZ1s more, especially in removing the risk of damage to the subframe. Cutting the studs on those, while not an easy 'plug & play' option, is not all that difficult. Even if you screw one up you're only out what?, about $40?, and you'd still have the originals to get you back to where you started. It's not like you're cutting body panels or something.

I saw the fairing on the Gen 3s have an offset or indent towards the front I believe under where the mirror mounts so I would gather that a bracket made for there might be milled to fit that. Would making that bracket just a little thicker, but not as thick as the SW Motech spacers, help solve the problem of the stud length? I wouldn't want the FZ1s sticking out much further than they already do though.

 
Just thinking out loud. Why do you feel the FZ1 mirrors work better in the tip over scenario?
The FZ1 mirror's hinge (under the rubber boot) is at an angle to the horizon. The mirror folds upwards and back towards the bike. So, when you drop the bike the mirror just folds instead of breaking the subframe it is mounted to. I have (unfortunately) tested that particular "feature" on a couple of occasions on Ol' Blue.

FWIW, the stock 1st Gen mirrors had the same angle of folding, so they also tend to fold back in a drop situation. But just like the stock 2nd gen mirrors, they provide an excellent rearward view of one's arms and elbows.
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I had the FZ1's on when I hit the Turkey Vulture, and was greatly relieved to "unfold" the left side mirror back to it's normal position. I didn't even have to readjust the mirror, it stayed right where it was before the strike. I am in no hurry to test them, but I am pretty sure that Fred is right, and they will just fold in without breaking the stay in a drop.

 
Well as I have already posted, my subframe is broken from a no speed fall.

I may shift to the FZ1 mirrors if it will prevent future subframe damage.

I still like the idea of the stud extensions ala SWMotech.

 
I guess that if you don't need mirror spacers then you probably won't be interested in this one. Sorry.

OK, so instead of spending a bunch more time grinding out another 1/4" steel prototype spacer, I decided to cut a couple of new prototypes from a piece of scrap 1/2" Oak wood that I had laying around. The 1/2" is still not quite thick enough, and required me to use washers under the upper mirror head. Now I can see what the spacers will look like bi-laterally, and I think I'll actually be able to ride the bike with these wood spacers for a while as the oak is pretty darned stiff and sturdy. Not sure how well they will stand up to weathering though.
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These are not nearly as nice looking as they will be when WynPro has his way with the CNC milling in aluminum, with all those fancy shmancy compound curves, but it should give us a good functionality verification / validation.

PS - pay no attention to the messy workbenches. That is a sign of genius at work...
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so, i find this very interesting and love the work.

i have been working on a similar idea before i found this, and i love your work.

I don't have the machines to cut steel but i was prototyping in 1/2 and 3/4 inch delrin stock. it's very rugged polymer and used in frame sliders and such... easy to mill and machine and very very rugged...

i'd like to see a set of these wood prototypes in black delrin or similar polymer... stuff is easy to find and cheep enough. polishes out beautifully once your have your final shape...

https://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Acetal_Delrin_Sheet/ACTLBLK0-75012X36

just a thought...

keep up the good work!!!!!

 
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Has anyone put bar end mirrors on a FJR?
That will probably give worse results than the OEM mirrors, with the added benefit of breaking on any tip-over or close parking snafus. Bar end mirrors are as functional on a FJR as a Mattel plastic beanie helmet is on a cruiser rider. Bar end mirrors are indeed another solution way to do things, as are integrated rear view mirror systems for helmets and rear view cameras. Never be afraid to try something new. The OEM mirrors were designed by professionals so something made by armatures has to be better. I'm waiting to see how some Yankee ingenuity and a little clever CNC programming turns out.

 
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Ionbeam has made some novel points. One missing is why Yamaha "professionals" did not design a mirror that was as functional as the GenI mirrors? Be careful how you define professionals.

Appears this topic has gone 180 from the original intent. Is the primary desire for auxiliary lights for night time riding? If that is not your concern, why not mount some LED's on the lower forks? Any time I see an approaching bike with aux. lights it is just as noticeable if they are on the upper fairings or on the forks.

 
The conceptualizing has not drifted too far afield yet. The idea, as stated in the first post, is twofold:

1) To provide a better rear view mirror that shows you more than your elbows. This need was increased as soon as I mounted my (highly desirable) Vstrom handguards on my Gen 3 as those guards now entirely block the inner 1/3rd of my mirror's rear view. Seeing a rider's headlights that is following anywhere behind me (regardless of distance) requires me to move my head at least 6" to the side.

2) To also provide a high mounting point for the new breed of LED auxillary lights. Yes, aux lights for conspicuity can be mounted in a multitude of locations, but by mounting the lights up near the mirror bases the lights can serve the dual purposes of improved daytime consppicuity, and (greatly) improved nighttime illumination.

There are always more than one way to skin a cat. And there are also a number of other things to be considered regarding both of these stated goals. One is the desire, by many, to retain the homogenous looks and larger mirror size of the stock mirror heads. A contrary consideration is the subframe breakage issue that the stock mirrors present, which can only to be worsened by lengthening their outward protrusion.

I can report that we have a first pass prototype of some spacers produced, very similar to my wooden ones except they are a fraction of an inch longer, fabbed up in some sort of plastic SLA (?). Dave will be test fitting them on his 2nd gen soon and we should have some photos to share at that point.

In the meantime, we will continue to pursue the FZ1 mirror mounting bracket options as a second solution to the same two goals. As BigOgre mentioned, modifying the FZ1 mirror studs would not be an irreversible mod to the bike itself, so not nearly as bad as hacking up the stock mirrors.

@someguy - Yes, plastic will be used for prototyping. Not sure which would be better for production of spacers, should we actually get to that point. The alloy material would probabl;y be easier to paint body colored to make them blend in with the rest of the bike better.

@Fastalk - I've had bar end mirrors on (hooligan) bikes before and can attest first hand, they suck. You have to turn your head so far to see the mirrors that you are actually taking your eyes and even peripheral vision, off the road ahead. Not a good idea if you want to be riding for a long time into the future. It also does nothing for obhective #2 of mounting aux lights.

@art miller - The first gen mirrors were not much better than the 2nd gens in terms of rearward view, which is why you see so many 1st gens with the antenna like FZ1 mirrors mounted on them. Once you have enjoyed the advantages of a good rear view mirror on a bike, it is just something that you cannot live without.

Other bike manufacturers do not seem to understand this any better than Yamaha does. I also have mirror spacers on both my Vstrom and VFR800. In each case the rear view was being impeded by views of my arms, but adding the outward spacing of those mirrors made the view much better, and safer, IMO.

Not everyone will have the same desires as my 2 goals. Some folks think the rear view on the stock mirrors is fine./ Others have no need for mounting aux lights up high. To them I say: Lucky for you. You can go on with your life with no more need of worrying about how any of this comes out.
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Ionbeam has made some novel points. One missing is why Yamaha "professionals" did not design a mirror that was as functional as the GenI mirrors? Be careful how you define professionals.
Ever been to Japan? This is not a tall group of overweight people (in general). The professionals that design our bikes probably average 5' 6" and weigh in at about 120 pounds. THEY can see behind themselves, so for them it isn't an issue.

 
Actually... Your height shouldn't matter much. You'd just angle the mirrors up and the rear view (from the mirrors to the rear) should be the same

 
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