A 60 or 70% Scale FJR?

[SR-71]

I'm 6' and 200+ lbs so I have no problem fitting on most bikes out there. But there's a lot shorter people out there, including my wife, that have a difficult time finding a decent bike that fits them. My wife and I used to ride years ago, but for numerous reasons we got away from riding, about 15 years ago. Then a couple of years ago the bug bit again and I bought a FJR. Of course when I bought my bike, she wanted one too. (She has always preferred to ride her own.)

Nothing wrong with my wife wanting her own machine, but when we went bike shopping for her we learned seat heights had gotten taller (compared to years ago). Seat heights of 31" or 32" or taller were typical, and way too tall for her 5'4" frame. Our goal was to find a bike that fit her, handled well, and had enough power to keep up with the FJR under normal riding conditions. I didn't realize just how hard this task was going to be! We visited every cycle shop within 100 miles, checked out every brand, including [gulp] Harley's, and she sat (or tried to sit) on every potential model. The low-slung cruisers had seat heights that fit her, but she wasn't interested in owning a cruiser. Ninja 250's and 500's fit her too, but their 2 cylinder engines lacked horsepower (IMO, dangerously so). We started running out of options, and started looking at cruisers again. She sat on them, but she just didn't want to own one. Out of pure desperation, I suggested she consider a scooter. Bad move... That did not win me any points at all! :evil2: Finally we ran across a decent compromise; a Kawasaki 2005 Z750S which we had the dealer lower a couple of inches. This bike has a somewhat standard seating position (and I added bar raisers). Then we added a Corbin seat, specifically made for the Z750S, which further reduced the seat height.

With those few changes her Kawi fit her fairly well. It handles ok and has a decent amount power (102hp), so it keeps up with my FJR fairly well too. Overall its a decent compromise for her size frame, but it definitely lacks the touring refinement the FJR has; motorized windshield, luggage, etc. When we take off for a long ride, I'm lovin' life on my FJR, but I look back and she's getting a bit beat up on her 750; no protection from the wind, no storage, etc. Sure, we could add windshields, bags, etc, to her bike - but a J.C. Whitney bike wasn't in our plan.

My wifes situation got me thinking. I wonder how well a 60% or 70% sized FJR would sell? It would definitely be a new class of bike (MST - mini-sport-tourer?). A bike for a specific market, shorter people. Picture this... A FJR with a weight somewhere around 425 lbs, a 4 cylinder in-line fuel injected engine, 800-1000cc, and the whole bike - hard bags and all, scaled down to 60 or 70% of the full sized FJR.

To the best of my knowledge, there's nothing like this out there. I'm thinking there might be a nitch in the market place for something like this. I can't count the number of times I've been in a dealership and watched shorter guys or women on their toes, trying to balance on a machine.

I'm thinking about writing Yamaha and dropping this suggestion on them. Anyone think there's a nitch in the market for something like this?

SR-71

 

[v65]

I'm guessing the market exists and so do the bikes, just not on this continent. Motorcycle manufacturers seem to have some strange ideas about what Americans want, hence the PDP.

 

[2WheelTiger]

Believe it or not, the closest thing to a small FJR is a Suzuki Bergman. Don't discount them. They perform quite well.

 

[krashdragon]

There's definitely a market, but somehow, the bike manufacturers thing all Americans are 6'4 or something...

I was also reading in another forum where the Japanese have proportionally longer legs than Americans so, ok, at least the Northers Japanese. The Southern Japanese have shorter legs than we do... Oh well!

I was thinking about getting a Triumph Sprint ST... it's about 500 lbs, 125 hp, hard bags, etc.

I lowered my FJR, so I know I can lower the Triumph. Seat height stock is 31.7, that will cone down at least 2 inches....

A little smaller and lighter, that'll work.

The FJR was really too big for me., I could ride it just fine, but parking lots were a bit worrisome.

Oh I'm 5'6" with a barely 30' inseam.... I did sell it.

I also have a Suzuki Bandit, lowered, seat shaved, not bad, but would take a bit of work to make it a sport tourer...

installing bags and such. It has the muscle tho... 2002 and will still do 160 mph even after it's was hit, and totalled,

slipped on a corner, and knocked over in a parking garage.

Good luck

Mary

 

[pinhead]

I'm still waiting for some manufacturer to take the risk on this. If something promising came along for my wife, I'd even try a first-year gen I bike, and I'd probably gamble as much or more than I paid for my FJR.

Dave

 

[madmike2]

A number of people have used the Katana 750 of years past. There are many on this forum who have lowered the FZ-6 and added Givi bags. I think a lowered Honda VF 750/800 (along with the Triumph Sprint) would make a great S.T. for an inseam challenged rider.

Really, the possibilities are endless if you follow your heart and imagination.

 

[SR-71]

Thanks for your responses. Hopefully more members will weigh-in on the issue. And intend to write Yamaha to see if I can generate some interest in the project.

The Bergman? For some crazy reason :crazy: I picture Jerry Seinfield saying "BERRRGG...man." (No offense meant to Bergman owners!)

No, scooters in general, true sport bikes, cruiser's, V-twin engines, and J.C. Whitney add-on specials aren't on her list of candidates. What can I say? Like the rest of us, my wife is very specific about what she wants to ride. The good news is, we're narrowing down the list. The bad news is, the list is getting smaller fast.

The post above that mentioned the Triumph ST steered me to the Triumph website. To be honest, I know nothing about the Triumph line. I only remember the big(?) oil leaking Twins of the 70's, so I never gave the Triumph line much thought. That may have been a mistake. The ST comes close to what she's been looking for, but has a fairly aggressive riding position. But while looking through the Triumph webpages I saw a bike that I didn't know existed; the Triumph Tiger. From what I've read so far, it's fairly low weight (435#), looks pretty sleek (front view looks a bit like a FJR!), has a factory side bag option, decent protection from the wind, and an upright riding position.

I forgot to mention my wife's Z750S stock seat is lower toward the front, which has a tendency to constantly push her into the tank. It's definitely a crazy design, but her Corbin seat is better. The Triumph Tiger seat, at least in the pictures, looks to be pretty comfortable.

Assuming the Tiger could be lowered, this might be the one! Now to find a dealer...

 

[ceddec]

Believe it or not, the closest thing to a small FJR is a Suzuki Bergman. Don't discount them. They perform quite well.

I'll second that. We have no real issues and she can carry a bunch.

 

[MKO]

The post above that mentioned the Triumph ST steered me to the Triumph website. To be honest, I know nothing about the Triumph line. I only remember the big(?) oil leaking Twins of the 70's, so I never gave the Triumph line much thought. That may have been a mistake. The ST comes close to what she's been looking for, but has a fairly aggressive riding position. But while looking through the Triumph webpages I saw a bike that I didn't know existed; the Triumph Tiger. From what I've read so far, it's fairly low weight (435#), looks pretty sleek (front view looks a bit like a FJR!), has a factory side bag option, decent protection from the wind, and an upright riding position.
I forgot to mention my wife's Z750S stock seat is lower toward the front, which has a tendency to constantly push her into the tank. It's definitely a crazy design, but her Corbin seat is better. The Triumph Tiger seat, at least in the pictures, looks to be pretty comfortable.

Assuming the Tiger could be lowered, this might be the one! Now to find a dealer...

The Tiger is a great bike. It won Cycle World's best Standard award this year. With the optional hard bags and aftermarket shield it is a great candidate for sport touring. Unfortunately the stock seat height is 32.8" so a whole lotta lowerin needs to happen before it fits the little lady. I don't think you can get there without compromising some of the other characteristics of the bike.

 

[Silver Penguin]

My wifes situation got me thinking. I wonder how well a 60% or 70% sized FJR would sell? It would definitely be a new class of bike (MST - mini-sport-tourer?). A bike for a specific market, shorter people. Picture this... A FJR with a weight somewhere around 425 lbs, a 4 cylinder in-line fuel injected engine, 800-1000cc, and the whole bike - hard bags and all, scaled down to 60 or 70% of the full sized FJR.

I would definitely be interested. My inseam is 26-27". I'm 5'2" tall. My FJR is lowered by 3/4" and has a custom seat. That allows me a solid toe down on each side. When I first got the bike, I could alternate a tippy toe on either side, by sliding across the seat. So far, my only two drops have been due to rider error rather than lack of height. I had a side stand oopsie and a demonstration of what-not-to-do in a tight U-turn. Had I had a better footing there is a chance that I may have saved the bike on those two occasions, perhaps not.

Above 5mph, this bike fits me perfectly. I love everything about it. The only farkles I have are the lowering kit, handlebar risers and the seat. The rest is stock and suits me just fine. There is no better bike out there.

Below 5mph, I'm miserable. Parking is a strategic exercise, with exit planned before entry. Many times, I've gratefully accepted assistance in getting the bike moved around. If none is available, I have to walk the bike out before getting aboard. Even in my own garage, I have to walk the bike out then turn it around.

I also have a Ninja 650, which could be classed as an FJR alternative. It's pretty nippy and has a very comfortable, upright seating position. The stock seat is a tad higher than the FJR but the bike only weighs 398lb dry so is easy to move around in a parking lot. My pointed toes reach the ground on the Ninja and that feels pretty good. I do miss the FJR's big windshield though, and big gas tank.

My ideal bike would feel like one of the MSF trainer bikes in a parking lot. Low, light, easy to do anything with. Then, on the highway it would turn into something that felt just like an FJR.

Jill

 

[user 6393]

My dream would be a shaft drive 1000 cc FJR that's about 60-75lbs lighter than the current model, with a max seat height of 30 inches. More weight and substance for the highway, but lighter/shorter for in town/parking lot stuff for those of us of the fairer sex... :blink:

I am 5'6" and currently have an '06 FZ6. I love my lil red bike, but for long hauls the weight of the bike on the big highways causes more buffeting than is comfy at times. It has a 412lb dry weight. So, for me a great compromise would be a bike 1/2 way between the FZ6 and the FJR in weight, with a safer seat height and a shaft drive. Chain maintenance isn't tough, but it's a pain in the *** (although I appreciate my stock centerstand).

After having ridden my S/O's FJR, I very much appreciate the weight and solid feel on the highway, as well at how it just flows effortlessly in the corners, but when I get back on my FZ, I also appreciate how agile and flickable she is...

I need a lottery win and MUCH more garage space

 

[C&C]

I don't think the demand would warrant another model even though it would be a god-send to some riders. If they can't sell "N" number of bikes, they most likely are not going to produce a nitch bike that won't make them any money.

 

[user 6393]

I don't think the demand would warrant another model even though it would be a god-send to some riders. If they can't sell "N" number of bikes, they most likely are not going to produce a nitch bike that won't make them any money.

Consider all the countries the FZ6/FJR are sold in worldwide. I think that there is definitely a market. Check out some european or even Australian forums...

The Triumph ST is gaining popularity here in BC as a lighter sport tour option (seat height is still too high for my preference), so I think there is more interest than many think. As sportbikes here get more heat from the authorities some of those riders are looking for comfier options that still can 'perform'.

Honda has the 800 Interceptor, with stock touring bags and it is also a popular model.

Honda seems to do well with CBR F4I (600cc), 800 Interceptor, ST1300 and then the Gold Wing (the ubiquitous "Hondabago")

I think it's just an untried market. Honda seems to have more initiative there. Like the CBR125.

I think with the surge of new women riders in the last 5-6 years, the company that comes up with the 'right' model for us will score BIG.

Someone just has to have the balls to do it.

my 2 cents...

PS. Just think, the more of 'us' the manufacturers can get off the pillion seat and onto our own rides, the more money in their pockets, n'est pas?

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

While it's true that sport-touring can be done well and successfully on many bikes: 500 Ninjas and Katana 750s, just to name a couple; a dedicated 60~70% sport-tourer is an idea that has merit. Has had for quite some time, to me. I passed on the original Concours ('86) because it was, I felt, too big. I capitulated in '87 because of the beautiful red paint -- and because it was almost the only game in town (dedicated sport-touring). The GTR1000 (ZG1000 in America) Concours was based on an existing Kawi model -- the ZL1000 Eliminator (pretty much the same engine, shaft drive, etc. with a different chassis and the addition of touring stuff). Know what? -- Kawi also made ZL600 & ZL750 Eliminators (60~70% cruisers). I hoped and half-expected there to be a 3/4 sized Concours -- but, for many of the reasons discussed above, it never happened.

You know, there may never have been an FJR in the U.S. today had it not been for the '03 buyers and those who went before who pestered Yamaha to sell it in America. So, let the pestering begin.......

 

[Silver Penguin]

I think with the surge of new women riders in the last 5-6 years, the company that comes up with the 'right' model for us will score BIG.Someone just has to have the balls to do it.

PS. Just think, the more of 'us' the manufacturers can get off the pillion seat and onto our own rides, the more money in their pockets, n'est pas?

You make a good point Barb. How many female riders are steered towards cruisers for their low seat height? As a rookie, there is no way I'd have ridden an FJR but nor would I have dared to ride the 650 Ninja, which is touted as an entry level bike. With some miles under my belt, I do OK without a firm footing now, but it's not ideal.

More and more women are choosing to ride. Of those, many are finding that the cruisers aren't quite what they're looking for. There is a potential market out there. Which of the manufacturers will dare to take the risk of exploiting it?

Jill

 

[SR-71]

Jill - You're 5'2" and you're riding a 3/4" lowered FJR? Wow, that's fantastic! I can't my wife to even consider riding mine. Good for you! :clapping:

It sounds like a well-worded suggestive letter to Yamaha is in order. This could turn out to be an undiscovered nitch in the market place.

Butch

SR-71

 

[Silver Penguin]

Jill - You're 5'2" and you're riding a 3/4" lowered FJR? Wow, that's fantastic! I can't my wife to even consider riding mine. Good for you! :clapping:

Thanks Butch. It was pretty scary at first. After I'd seen an FJR on a shop floor, I sat on it and realized that there was just no way I'd ever be able to ride a bike like that. I couldn't even get it off the side stand.

Then I went to a demo event, where the manufacturers had launchers and catchers. The all-female participants were invited to demo any of the sport bikes on the track, and help was provided with the taller bikes. Yamaha wasn't there, but Aprilia had a Futura which is kinda sorta similar. I took that baby out for 15 minutes and decided that I was no longer going to be relegated to a cruiser. There HAD to be a way to do this.

A couple of weeks later, Andy and I went to see a used '03 FJR. He test rode it and was very impressed. It came home with us, and he rode it for a while. One day, he replaced the seat with a pillow, duct taped to the frame. That was my introduction to the bike. After that, I rode it gingerly, sliding to one side of the seat as I approached a stop, then dropping one foot to the floor.

I had 2" thick soles added to my boots which did wonders for my confidence. Now that I'm more used to the bike, I ride with regular boots. The only problems I have with the lack of height are in slow speed i.e. parking lot and poor traction scenarios. Gravel freaks me out because I don't have the option of putting a foot down to save the bike. OTOH, the bike is more stable with both feet on the pegs, when moving.

Once one has ridden an FJR, one will find a way, somehow to ride one again. It may not be easy, but is well worth it.

Jill

 

[user 6393]

How many female riders are steered towards cruisers for their low seat height? As a rookie, there is no way I'd have ridden an FJR but nor would I have dared to ride the 650 Ninja, which is touted as an entry level bike. With some miles under my belt, I do OK without a firm footing now, but it's not ideal.
More and more women are choosing to ride. Of those, many are finding that the cruisers aren't quite what they're looking for. There is a potential market out there. Which of the manufacturers will dare to take the risk of exploiting it?

Jill

There are likely more women and shorter statured men on cruisers by default rather than choice than many would think.

My bets on who offers the bike we want? Either Honda (as they seem to be spending a lot of $ on market research), Kawi as they have the whole 'entry level rider' market sewn up currently with the Ninja 250 and 500, Triumph gets 3rd on the likelyhood meter for me with the success of the 675 Daytona and the new line of 1050cc Triples. Last, and darkest horse in the race? Hyosung. Utilitarian yes, but out to please a wide range of riders?? YOU BET Look at the range of seat heights you can get without a dogbone kit?

It shall be interesting. I think I am going to start writing some letters.... :clapping:

 

[Bounce]

Why mod the bike and only improve one area of your life? Do this and rid yourself of the runt curse forever!