A 60 or 70% Scale FJR?

[Silver Penguin]

Why mod the bike and only improve one area of your life? Do this and rid yourself of the runt curse forever!

I checked out the link, and I'm short enough to be a candidate for the $80,000 procedure (not covered by insurance) but after reading about the complications, I don't like the idea at all.

Jill

 

[markjenn]

The mfgs definitely know about his "niche" so save your emails, unless you just want to remind them of your interest. Generally, they don't think small, full-featured touring bikes are a big enough market to worry about.

Actually, that's not completely true. Honda does offer a small touring bike to the Euro market - the Deauville:

And BMW has their new F800 which is very nice small touring bike, albeit a bit pricey. It has factory seat-lowering options, ABS, hard bags, heated grips, etc. And there's also the VFR which in many ways is a 75% FJR.

Just be careful about what you wish for. You're sorta boxing yourself in a corner when you want a 2/3'rds scale FJR and then also want 1000cc/4-cyls and 100-hp "to keep up", and want hard bags, and complete weather protection. Smaller bikes for smaller people need to have smaller ambitions to remain smaller. Like the Deauville above, which has a 700cc twin which is completely adequate for any reasonable touring use, especially with a smaller rider aboard. Heck, my 650cc V-Strom has plenty of power for any reasonable use. I like my FJR's 125 hp, but it certainly is not necessary for touring. Power is the most overrated spec in the book. A 500cc Ninja "dangerously underpowered"? You've got to be kidding.

- Mark

 

[SockMonkey]

My wife is 5'4" with boots on. The BMW F800ST w/ lowered suspension option (shorter rear shock and front forks, low seat, and shorter side- and center-stands) fits her perfectly. She can practically flat-foot the bike. I definitely recommend taking a look...

 

[SR-71]

A 500cc Ninja "dangerously underpowered"? You've got to be kidding.

- Mark

Nope, I wasn't kidding! Well... at least the Ninja 500 my wife and I test drove during our process of finding her a bike. It was a one year old used Ninja 500 (2004 model), with fairly low miles and looked to be in excellent condition; no obvious transmission or head gasket leaks, etc. I found the 500 to be very slow to build rpm, to the point where I'd be nervous out on the highway with it. During my test drive, rolling along at about 35mph, I racked the throttle to the stops.., then I waited for it to accelerate, ZZZZzzzzz. I was so disappointed in the power of this bike, I could not believe it! Heck, I've been riding for over 40 years (many different makes and models), and even sold motorcycles for a living for awhile, and never felt a 500 this under-powered! I remember driving Kawasaki 500cc 2-stroke triples of yester-year, that were rocket fast (for their day)! My first thought was, surely this particular Ninja 500 had to be a lemon. When I returned with it to the dealership, I asked that their senior tech take the bike for a spin and let me know if it was running correctly. (On the plus side, it was idling very nicely.) The tech brought it back and said, "Yep, it's running fine." Even my wife, who hadn't ridden in years, (and back then she owned a 175cc 2-stroke Kawi Enduro), thought the Ninja 500's engine was weak. I have no doubt this particular Ninja 500 could eventually do most any speed limit..., eventually ... but I sure wouldn't want to try passing a semi on a steep up-hill grade with it! Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to slam the Ninja 500. I'm sure it fits certain riding conditions perfectly. But it is, what it is - and it wasn't what my wife was looking for.

In comparison, my wife's Kawi Z750S has plenty of power; granted 250cc's more displacement, but like night and day, compared to that Ninja 500 we test drove.

It shouldn't be too difficult for a manufacturer to come up with a smaller (800-1000cc) in-line 4 (or 3) cylinder engine for a scaled back FJR. Heck, back in the late 70's Kawasaki built a "250cc Triple" (with pistons about the size of large thimbles).

What concerns me more with a scaled down FJR would be the reduction in suspension travel, and ground clearence, which would probably be required to get the seat height down to around 28 or 29".

SR-71

 

[burnergold2B]

There are likely more women and shorter statured men on cruisers by default rather than choice than many would think.

Yup, there should be a package deal for a lowering option. A buddy of mine works with works performance suspension to fab 1" lowering kits. After the shock is built the next challenge is matching that "drop" with the forks, center stand, and side-stand. There's a market here but I think it's for the shadetree folks that would make the kit and exchange with you for stock center and side-stands.

Let me fire up the welder. Anybody got some scrap FJR center or side-stands to donate for a prototype?

 

[markjenn]

Bone stock, a Ninja 500 makes about 50 RWHP and should do 0-60 mph faster than a new Porsche 911, and hit a top end of about 110 mph. Maybe something was wrong with the example you rode, and I'm sure it will seem slow by FJR standards, but I would never characterizes this as "dangerously slow". Like all small bikes, you do have to rev it much more aggressively - that's part of the deal with smaller bikes. When I'm sport riding my DL650, the engine generally lives between 7K and the 10.5K redline all the time.

- Mark

 

[odot]

Why mod the bike and only improve one area of your life? Do this and rid yourself of the runt curse forever!

I checked out the link, and I'm short enough to be a candidate for the $80,000 procedure (not covered by insurance) but after reading about the complications, I don't like the idea at all.

Jill

I'd only do that if I really, really, really, really, I mean REALLY wanted to go into outer space.

 

[SR-71]

"a Ninja 500 makes about 50 RWHP"

- Mark

Interesting. I'm not so sure about that. Is that your guess, or an actual spec you know about? If I were guessing, being a non-fuel injected engine, I'd guess more like 40-45hp at the crank and around 30-32RWHP. Just curious, have you ever driven one?

 

[markjenn]

"a Ninja 500 makes about 50 RWHP"
- Mark

Interesting. I'm not so sure about that. Is that your guess, or an actual spec you know about? If I were guessing, being a non-fuel injected engine, I'd guess more like 40-45hp at the crank and around 30-32RWHP. Just curious, have you ever driven one?

No, never driven the 500. Various sites around the net quote hp figures in the 50-60 range, although some of these may be assuming crank hp. The only reference to a bonifide dyno test I can find is this Cycle Magazine test from 1987 (!) showing 52 RWHP.

https://mfes.com/wade/ex500cycle.html

I'm very confident that 50 RWHP is about right - it is consistent with what you'd expect per unit of displacement for medium displacement sport twins. For example, the ubiquitous Suzuki SV650 (whether carb'd or injected) consistently dynos at about 65 RWHP and 500cc/650cc * 65hp is..... exactly 50hp. Or if you prefer, you can ratio off bikes like the FJR: 500cc/1300cc * 123hp.... 47.3hp. The fact that a 500cc version of the FJR engine would make less than the Ninja reflects that the FJR is in a somewhat milder state of tune to have more torque and less peak hp. Anyway, you get the idea.

My DRZ400S dual-sport single is in a much lower state of tune makes 37 RWHP, so it's certainly not anything around 30-32. FI vs. carbs has virtually nothing to do with peak hp - it's all about displacement, peak RPM, and tuning -- the EX500/Ninja 500R is in a fairly high state of tune - it was a leading-edge sportbike when it first came out and was designed to compete with the cutting-edge Honda 500 V4.

As I said earlier, if you're not prepared to rev the motor, you can really get the false impression that the bike is slow which is it decidely not. But like any medium-displacement sportbike motor, you have to keep the engine "on the boil". Part of the charm of small bikes, IMHO.

- Mark

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I'm with markjenn on this -- and I am a previous EX 500 rider/tourer (and later bought the up-dated 500 Ninja). My EX500 experience was some of the best touring I've done -- and certainly the most fun (get to, need to sometimes, rev the motor); especially when touring with riders on bigger engined bikes (even more fun). The wonderful EX250 is more of the same. My S.O. toured for several years on a 250 Ninja and responded to someone's question once about it's ability to 'perform' or 'keep-up': "It'll do anything once once you get that one needle past nine", she said (referring to the tach). I also witnessed a friend test riding a 250 Ninja and came back and reported that it had no power and would hardly pull him -- I knew differently.

"Different strokes for different folks."

 

[Silver Penguin]

I'm with markjenn on this -- and I am a previous EX 500 rider/tourer (and later bought the up-dated 500 Ninja). My EX500 experience was some of the best touring I've done -- and certainly the most fun (get to, need to sometimes, rev the motor); especially when touring with riders on bigger engined bikes (even more fun). The wonderful EX250 is more of the same. My S.O. toured for several years on a 250 Ninja and responded to someone's question once about it's ability to 'perform' or 'keep-up': "It'll do anything once once you get that one needle past nine", she said (referring to the tach). I also witnessed a friend test riding a 250 Ninja and came back and reported that it had no power and would hardly pull him -- I knew differently."Different strokes for different folks."

At Femmoto last year, I rode the 250 and the 500 Ninja and loved both of them. Since we were only using half of the Classic track, there wasn't a long straight to build up a head of steam. Under these circumstances, I was easily able to keep up with the bigger bikes, and even pass some of them. Like you said though, I did have those bikes squealing with high RPM.

Jill

 

[Bounce]

Why mod the bike and only improve one area of your life? Do this and rid yourself of the runt curse forever!

I checked out the link, and I'm short enough to be a candidate for the $80,000 procedure (not covered by insurance) but after reading about the complications, I don't like the idea at all.

Jill

Google is your friend. Now that you know what's out there, shop for best price. There's got to be someone like D&H out there!

 

[FJRay]

I bought a ex500 as a first bike for my daughter and felt that I needed to help her put miles on it while she was in school. I am 6'2" and around 300lbs so I am not small. The little Ninja with the revs up could hual my fat but over a hundred without to much trouble and the handling on a small narrow bike is way fun. The suspension was a bit challenged but that was me not the bike. With soft bags and a tail bag she toured the northwest for years keeping up just fine with the FJR and my wifes ZR7S Kawi which is another good bike if you can find one.

 

[CODan]

Maybe the new suzuki 650?

The GSX650F’s chassis is based around a tubular steel double-cradle frame. KYB supplies the spring-preload-adjustable 41mm forks and the two-way-adjustable rear shock. The dual front brake rotors measure 310mm and are grabbed by four-piston Tokico calipers. The 3.50 x 17.0-inch front and 5.00 x 17.0-inch rear cast aluminum alloy wheels come shod with 120/70-ZR17 and 160/60-ZR17 Bridgestone BT011 radials, respectively. Wheelbase is 1470mm (57.9 inches), rake is 26º, trail is 108mm/4.3 inches, seat height is 30.35 inches, claimed dry weight is 476 pounds and the manufacturer suggested retail price is $6999.

 

[user 6393]

I understand what many of you are saying but...

For me, a 30+" seat height is not doable for many shorter statured riders, male or female. My bike has a 30.5" seat height and I can get most of the front 1/3 of both feet on the ground at a stop. A 650 VStrom has a similar reported seat height to my bike, but as it is much wider, I can barely tippy toe it in the showroom. A BMW? hahaha, bring your cameras and have a chuckle. Point being, not all 30 inch seat heights are the same.

To me, having to modify this, that and the other thing on a bike just to fit is a poor option at best. Bikes are designed with specific ergos. To modify suspensions or whatever can, in some cases, hamper the handling of the bike, and in some cases the safety.

I am not sure what would be so bad about actually designing a bike with a smaller person in mind???

We are a bigger market than the naysayers think. Just think about how popular riding is in Japan alone???

 

[pmeysemb]

Maybe the new suzuki 650?
The GSX650F’s chassis is based around a tubular steel double-cradle frame. KYB supplies the spring-preload-adjustable 41mm forks and the two-way-adjustable rear shock. The dual front brake rotors measure 310mm and are grabbed by four-piston Tokico calipers. The 3.50 x 17.0-inch front and 5.00 x 17.0-inch rear cast aluminum alloy wheels come shod with 120/70-ZR17 and 160/60-ZR17 Bridgestone BT011 radials, respectively. Wheelbase is 1470mm (57.9 inches), rake is 26º, trail is 108mm/4.3 inches, seat height is 30.35 inches, claimed dry weight is 476 pounds and the manufacturer suggested retail price is $6999.

Dang CODan! Uncanny! I was just scrolling to the bottom of this thread to add my reply about the new Suzuki and there you go. That ~30 inch seat may just be the ticket for my wife's upgrade from her GZ250. I bet some minor work could get that down to the 27-28" range pretty easily. On the plus side, it may also fill in the role as the occasional track day bike for me (which I am looking into) :clapping: Gonna go take a look at one of those when they come in...

 

[Silver Penguin]

I understand what many of you are saying but...
For me, a 30+" seat height is not doable for many shorter statured riders, male or female. My bike has a 30.5" seat height and I can get most of the front 1/3 of both feet on the ground at a stop. A 650 VStrom has a similar reported seat height to my bike, but as it is much wider, I can barely tippy toe it in the showroom. A BMW? hahaha, bring your cameras and have a chuckle. Point being, not all 30 inch seat heights are the same.

Well said Barb! I might dream of a 26" seat height, but the kind of bike that comes with looks more like a nightmare than a dream. For now, my FJR is down by about 3/4" from stock and I can kinda-sorta handle that. With a lower seat height, I would be more confident about moving my own bike around in parking lots.

Jill

 

[Jackson]

Here is another thread where this has been discussed before.

 

[SockMonkey]

My wife rides a lime green '06 Kawasaki Ninja EX500R. Great little bike; 6 speed gear box, bullet proof mill, decent suspension and brakes. To date, she's swapped the windscreen (Zero Gravity Sport Touring) and added GenMar risers. I believe a Corbin seat is next on her list (that and the custom paint w/ Hawaiian flower motif...). It's a perfect sized bike for someone in the 5'2 - 5'10 range.

 

[krouske]

I hope you find your solution but the weight difference between you and your wife will equate to horse power needed for her.

Good Luck