AE shifting and 1st gear engagement problem solved - incorrect engine oil viscosity

[Brodie]

Just for your edification, here is a video showing how the clutch works with the ignition key:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/363155908?app_id=122963

This is how to cycle the clutch while bleeding the clutch fluid, without having to pull off the swing arm like the Yamaha service manual instructs us to do. The clutch cover was removed to take the video.

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

So we need to use the front brake in the bleeding sequence also?  I wasn't doing that when I bled it last time, but I did have the mity vac connected with light pressure.

 

[Brodie]

Either front brake or rear brake.
If you notice, when you are in gear and on a hill, and turn on your ignition switch, the dead engine is keeping you in place. You have to momentarily engage the brake to let the bike roll.  Turn the key off, and in a moment or two the clutch releases and you stop rolling. 
 

That’s why I always park in gear with the bike rolled forward against the gear set. This IS our parking brake, just like any other motorcycle. 
 

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Brodie,  Here are the instructions I worked with last time I bled the clutch line.  I swear I could hear something going on with the clutch by just turning the key on.  Where do we add the brake to this sequence?

1. Bleed screw closed2. Key switch on3. Bleed screw open4. Bleed screw closed5. Key switch off6. 10 second pause7. Repeat

 

[Brodie]

If you closely watched the video, there was a response when the key-switch was turned on, but the clutch pack did not move. It took a momentary squeeze on the brake to move that clutch pressure plate outward. 

Clutch hydraulic line bleed sequence is as follows:

1. Bleed screw closed

2. Key switch on

3. Momentarily cycle the brakes (front or rear)

4. Bleed screw open (fluid flows into the hose attached to the bleed screw nipple)

5. Bleed screw closed

6. Key switch off

7. Several  seconds pause (until you hear the clutch relax, the system draws fluid from the reservoir to make up for what was bled out)

8. Repeat as necessary.

Your Mity-Vac probably did the trick, but this works without one being connected. Pay attention to the clutch fluid reservoir to keep it from going dry.

Brodie

 

[Brodie]

On a side note:

One other thing about parking on a hill against first gear, if you have an alarm that chirps after you remove the key (if it is attached to your turn signals, and brake lights like mine was), it will activate the clutch pack momentarily and allow the bike to ROLL OFF THE SIDE STAND AND TAKE A DIRT NAP. 

When I installed my turn signal cancel unit, being upstream from my alarm connection, it then isolated the alarm back feed from traveling through the turn signal circuit, the bike's fuses, and into the YCCS electronics. Problem solved.

Brodie

 

[mcatrophy]

Just another point about using the ignition key to cycle the clutch, make sure the bike is in neutral. If in gear, it requires a brake to be pressed before the clutch will cycle.

Video I took to show clutch operation, slightly angled, shows more of the movement.



And, while I was playing, to try to show clutch "oiling",



(Sorry, not embedded videos, not yet found out how to do that)

 

[Brodie]

Good call Mac. 
I am almost never in neutral; only when on the center stand getting gas (petrol, for you Limeys ), or when changing tyres. When I made that video the thought never occurred to me to try it in neutral. 
 

Goes to show you can learn something new every day.
 

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

OK Mac!  I was in neutral when I did my key cycle clutch fluid bleed.  I guess I was hearing the clutch cycle.  I never leave the AE in first gear unless I'm riding it and at a stop sign or traffic signal.

 

[mcatrophy]

OK Mac!  I was in neutral when I did my key cycle clutch fluid bleed.  I guess I was hearing the clutch cycle.  I never leave the AE in first gear unless I'm riding it and at a stop sign or traffic signal.

Understood, I only posted as a heads-up for others trying this technique. 

 

[mikwilfly]

Has anyone had this problem with the clutch? When I am coming to a stop the clutch doesn't release until I am down to about 2-3 MPH. I always wonder if indeed it will release. All other operations seem normal, no slipping or jerky starts and seems to shift okay. Is the computer adjustable to raise the road speed some?

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Mikwilfly,  Please describe your AE issue in more detail.  Thanks.

 

[mikwilfly]

Has anyone had this problem with the clutch? When I am coming to a stop the clutch doesn't release until I am down to about 2-3 MPH. I always wonder if indeed it will release. All other operations seem normal, no slipping or jerky starts and seems to shift okay. Is the computer adjustable to raise the road speed some?

To detail: When coming to a stop and downshifting to 1st gear (or not just stopping in any gear) the  clutch does NOT disengage at all until approx. 2-3 MPH.  If it was a regular hand opera clutch and you did not pull it as you stopped, the motor would continue to pull you forward, then right before you killed the motor, you remembered to pull in the clutch......that's what it does.

The main problem with it doing this is if I am say turning into my driveway or entering the garage, the darn thing won't go slow enough for a slow speed maneuver. It feels dumb and I doubt this is the way it was designed?

I was hoping that the speed at which the clutch disengages is adjustable in the computer but I don't know. I do not think it is a "bleed" problem but I'm new at this electric shift/clutch stuff. Any help will be appreciated as I am not happy with this arrangement as it is presently.

Thx    Mikwilfly

 

[mcatrophy]

Clutch engagement and disengagement speeds are tied. You can  change them, but not independently. If memory serves, the engagement speed is normally set to 1800, the disengagement to 1300.

Check your engagement speed - when stopped, very gradually open your throttle, check the tacho when you just begin to feel it pulling. If that is about right, the disengagement issue is not a control problem but something mechanical or electrical - which might be hydraulic, sticky clutch plates, actuator ...

One other point, the computer does adjust the engagement/disengagement speed upwards during the cold idle period, do the above test when the engine is at normal warm idle. 

If you do decide you need to adjust the engagement speed, I (or others here) can point you to to the procedure.  

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

If you do decide you need to adjust the engagement speed, I (or others here) can point you to to the procedure.  

Mac,  I'm not entirely sure how you use the onboard diagnostics.  If you could point me to that, I'd appreciate it.  Reading the full service manual, I can't figure out the exact steps.  Thanks in advance.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

I was hoping that the speed at which the clutch disengages is adjustable in the computer but I don't know. I do not think it is a "bleed" problem but I'm new at this electric shift/clutch stuff. Any help will be appreciated as I am not happy with this arrangement as it is presently.

Thx    Mikwilfly

It isn't so much the speed at which the clutch engages and disengages, but instead it's the RPM.  When you downshift to 1st gear, are you getting the same delay a few of us have been seeing or does it downshift to first immediately?  Also feathering the rear brake helps when making low speed maneuvers.

 

[mcatrophy]

Mac,  I'm not entirely sure how you use the onboard diagnostics.  If you could point me to that, I'd appreciate it.  Reading the full service manual, I can't figure out the exact steps.  Thanks in advance.

This is not a trivial procedure, and I would suggest you don't attempt it unless you are absolutely sure the engagement rpm is wrong (as per my test above) - which would only be the case if someone has messed with it.

Unfortunately, I can't find the thread that gave the step-by-step guide, if anyone can find it, this is the link I have to one of my posts in the thread:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?act=findpost&hl=&pid=328291 .

If you have the service manual, ignore below, I picture two relevant pages here:

(Click on image for larger view)

 

The "test coupler adapter 2" referred to is merely a shorting link between the two connected terminals of the YCC-S test coupler. In the description it refers to the hand shift switch being operated four times, I believe in some bikes this only needs one time.

 

[mcatrophy]

Mac,  I'm not entirely sure how you use the onboard diagnostics.  If you could point me to that, I'd appreciate it.  Reading the full service manual, I can't figure out the exact steps.  Thanks in advance.Ppl

Found this post, I think it spells out the procedure, it's probably worth reading the whole thread.

Note comments on "four" verses "one" in my post above, also I'm not sure some of the timings (like "0.3 seconds") are correct.

 

[mikwilfly]

I read that the clutch engagement rpm was adjustable on an AE model. I have an '06 and the darn clutch stays engaged until just about to a complete stop, no ,matter what gear I'm in. This is more than a little weird when stopping, right before engine stalls, it disengages. Is this adjustable? I called a local DFW Yamaha shop and they sat NO, but they had to "look it up" and called me the next day to tell me that.

Also and this just started,  sitting at a stop light (sign) the "check engine" light will sometimes come on and then it refuses to launch. The clutch will not engage and I cannot shift up or down. It is like it is in neutral. Only cure is to shut of ignition s/w and restart engine, light goes out and shifts normal, until next failure. Any answers and thoughts concerning the "light" / shift problems?

Thx

mikwilfly

 

[two_wheeled]

I read that the clutch engagement rpm was adjustable on an AE model. I have an '06 and the darn clutch stays engaged until just about to a complete stop, no ,matter what gear I'm in. This is more than a little weird when stopping, right before engine stalls, it disengages. Is this adjustable? I called a local DFW Yamaha shop and they sat NO, but they had to "look it up" and called me the next day to tell me that.

Also and this just started,  sitting at a stop light (sign) the "check engine" light will sometimes come on and then it refuses to launch. The clutch will not engage and I cannot shift up or down. It is like it is in neutral. Only cure is to shut of ignition s/w and restart engine, light goes out and shifts normal, until next failure. Any answers and thoughts concerning the "light" / shift problems?

Thx

mikwilfly

What RPM is the idle set to?  The AE is extremely sensitive to idle RPMs.  Find out what yours is set to before you change anything else.

Very likely, your idle RPMs are too high and you need to turn them down just a bit.  The bike is smart enough that it knows you'll jump into the Prius in front of you if it shifts into gear at 1700 RPM, so it refuses to shift from neutral into first. 

Also, if the idle RPMs are set too high, the bike will refuse to disengage the clutch when coming to a stop until you pull hard on the brake and slow the engine down.  It took me a long time to learn this.  Turn down your idle.  It's easily adjusted with a philips head screwdriver on the right side of the bike.