Anti-Lock Brakes

[RacinRay]

I've been riding my '06 FJR almost exclusively for the last 6 years and I've apparently developed a bad habit. When I come into a corner too hot, I tend to use the rear brake to scrub off excess speed. It doesn't make the front end dive and with the ABS you can't lock up the rear wheel. Now, with my new speed triple (no ABS) when I use the rear brake in turns the rear locks up VERY easily. I think I've developed a "lead foot" and I'm having a difficult time modulating the rear brake. I've had several "oh shit" moments when the rear tire locks up and jumps out of line. I'm almost ready to remove the rear brake pedal. The Brembo brakes on the triple have incredible stopping power I just need to relearn my braking technique.

Anyone else struggle with this issue?

 

[maddad]

IMHO, I think using your rear brake consistently coming into a corner can be a bad habit with or without ABS. I see a lot of my friends have this problem and we spend sometime getting them more familiar with the stopping power of the front over the rear. From what I've seen if I apply the front brake go and hard, adding the back brake adds about 20% more stopping power and the ABS doesn't kick in on the back unless I really stomp on it. If you are using your back brake and the ABS is kicking in, I don't think your getting the best out of your bike.

As for creating a bad habit, we took a 7,000 km trip to the Dragon last month. My cousin was on a ZX14 and commented a few times that he just couldn't go as hard into the corners as I could because I had ABS. I replied that I've never had the ABS come on unless I was on a wet road, hit sand or some other issue.

Had the same discussion at Tim Horton's last week with someone who said they didn't like ABS. ABS is a not a performance enhancement, it's purely a safety thing that kicks in only after you have gone too far and where a non-ABS bike would be sliding.

 

[azitlies]

Oh Boy... :dribble:

This is going to lead to a lot of crazy discussion don't mean that in a bad way... just a crazy way...

I think it would be best to just point out a few basic things to think about...

1) Generally speaking, the front brake is about 70% and the rear is about 30% of our stopping (aka slowing) power.

2) In the beginning of a corner, we want the weight bias to be on the front, not the rear.

3) Linked brakes can be a factor, as they apply a little of the "other".

4) "Trail braking" doesn't mean just use "the rear brake".

5) ABS doesn't help with Lateral motion, only forward motion.

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, it's not meant that way. Only that there's a lot to cornering and braking, a real lot. I'd strongly suggest Lee Parks Total control, or Freddie Spencers classes etc etc. There's just so much to talk about with this subject... it's amazing really.

 

[dcarver]

I've actually been practicing using full rear ABS lock up and steering the bike around the imaginary obstacle.

Next step will be the same with front.

After that, with both brakes clicking away.

I love ABS brakes.

 

[SkooterG]

You have developed a very bad habit whether using ABS brakes or not.

Do yourself a BIG favor and attend a Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic.

 

[Bungie]

You have developed a very bad habit whether using ABS brakes or not.

Do yourself a BIG favor and attend a Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic.

Total control doesn't teach braking techniques. I mean other than 'real' trail braking (throttle on braking).

 

[Bugnatr]

Try moving the brake lever down a notch or two on the shaft it is attached to. My FZ6 had a rear brake that was just to easy to lock up, I moved the brake lever down so it would take more foot movement to lock the rear tire-problem solved!

 

[exskibum]

Try moving the brake lever down a notch or two on the shaft it is attached to.

+1

 

[RacinRay]

Try moving the brake lever down a notch or two on the shaft it is attached to. My FZ6 had a rear brake that was just to easy to lock up, I moved the brake lever down so it would take more foot movement to lock the rear tire-problem solved!

Intresting idea, I'll give that a try. But, I really need to work on my braking technique as well. I've read Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II. Maybe Superbike school!

 

[RacinRay]

Oh Boy... :dribble:

This is going to lead to a lot of crazy discussion don't mean that in a bad way... just a crazy way...

I think it would be best to just point out a few basic things to think about...

1) Generally speaking, the front brake is about 70% and the rear is about 30% of our stopping (aka slowing) power.

2) In the beginning of a corner, we want the weight bias to be on the front, not the rear.

3) Linked brakes can be a factor, as they apply a little of the "other".

4) "Trail braking" doesn't mean just use "the rear brake".

5) ABS doesn't help with Lateral motion, only forward motion.

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, it's not meant that way. Only that there's a lot to cornering and braking, a real lot. I'd strongly suggest Lee Parks Total control, or Freddie Spencers classes etc etc. There's just so much to talk about with this subject... it's amazing really.

I was not saying I don't use the front brake or not a lot of front brake, what I was trying to say is if I carry a little too much speed into a turn I like to use a little bit rear brake to scrub off

speed. This technique keeps me from loading up the front tire by applying the front brake or chopping the throttle mid turn. My point is that I NEVER had the rear tire lock up in a turn on the FJR. Now on a much lighter bike with strong brakes, I'm having trouble modulating the rear brake pressure. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Intech]

I think the key is to not brake IN the turn. You should have your speed set up at a speed that doesn't require slowing down. Braking in the turn on the FJR with either front or back brakes makes the bike want to stand up. Just not as much with just back brake applied. With that said, on roads that I am not real familiar with I may drag the brakes a little using just the back (which is really not just the back on FJR). The ABS is a huge safety factor, though. Many times I have had my speed set up going into a turn and find out it is a seriously decreasing radius turn. Then I will peel some speed off with the rear pedal.

Many good comments on the subject here.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

You have developed a very bad habit whether using ABS brakes or not.

Do yourself a BIG favor and attend a Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic.

+1

I would bet that an overwhelming majority of the members of this forum could benefit from some sort of advanced riding school. Myself included.

 

[wheatonFJR]

...Many times I have had my speed set up going into a turn and find out it is a seriously decreasing radius turn. Then I will peel some speed off with the rear pedal.

Is that how builderwill does it?

<Hi Will.>

 

[Bounce]

Slow - Look - Lean - Roll

Have your speed set before the turn in. Get on the throttle to set the suspension through the corner. Power on OUT OF the exit.

Moved to NEPRT

 

[mcatrophy]

To answer the original question (paraphrasing a little) "do ABS brakes make you gain bad habits", my reply is "no more than any other advance in motorcycles".

My first bike, a Tiger Cub, had poor brakes by any modern bike's standards, also tyres that had very poor grip particularly in the wet. Does my riding a bike with good brakes and much more grippy tyres make me gain bad habits in case I ride a bike with poor brakes and tyres? Only if I don't adapt my riding for the bike I'm currently using.

By all means use your ABS when it gives you the performance you want, same way as you can corner quite well in the wet (from my previous example), ride a bike with stability at speeds twice what my first bike was capable of, use your acceleration to get out of trouble where a lower performance machine would fail.

You have to adapt your riding to the bike you are on. If you can't do that, don't ride different bikes.

I've actually been practicing using full rear ABS lock up and steering the bike around the imaginary obstacle.

Next step will be the same with front.

After that, with both brakes clicking away.

I love ABS brakes.

I, too, love ABS brakes. I don't use them all the time, but under severe braking conditions I know exactly what my limits are as I feel the ABS start to operate, and I can "play" sitting on the verge of ABS, knowing firstly I'm at the maximum braking the bike is capable of with whatever road conditions prevail, and secondly that if I hit a more slippery patch, I'm not immediately going to die, the ABS will prevent that.

Please, dc, report back on your "front ABS working in a curve" experiment. We've heard lots of people say "it won't save you", but I've never heard a report saying categorically, and at first hand, that it can be done safely or can't be done safely. That's if you survive, of course

.

 

[not2shabby]

Another option would be to let a little air in the line to soften up the response. Some rear brakes are too strong and easily locked up. It took me a while to adjust to my 01 FZ1, it had a huge rear disc compared to the 954 I was used to.

 

[Bokerfork]

Another option would be to let a little air in the line to soften up the response. Some rear brakes are too strong and easily locked up. It took me a while to adjust to my 01 FZ1, it had a huge rear disc compared to the 954 I was used to.

I'm going to try this on my clutch. Damn thing is just to stiff.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mark

 

[gixxerjasen]

Try moving the brake lever down a notch or two on the shaft it is attached to. My FZ6 had a rear brake that was just to easy to lock up, I moved the brake lever down so it would take more foot movement to lock the rear tire-problem solved!

Intresting idea, I'll give that a try. But, I really need to work on my braking technique as well. I've read Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II. Maybe Superbike school!

You won't learn much at KC's SBS about braking. You'll learn a ton of stuff, much of which will help you here, especially setting corner entry speed, but he doesn't work on braking in Level I, at least not when I went or cornerworked for him. Excellent class and I highly recommend it, but not for this.

As for myself, coming from riding primarily sport bikes I find that I keep forgetting about the rear brake pedal. I have to remind myself all the time that I have extra braking up front if I'll just use the dang pedal.

 

[Ignacio]

Another option would be to let a little air in the line to soften up the response.

Purposely introducing air into a fundamental safety device like the braking system? Noooo thanks! Am I the only one that thinks that's crazy?

Why not remove one of the spark plug wires.....or carry an anchor to throw out in an emergency stop?