Anti-Lock Brakes

[FJR Bill]

If you've ever encountered a surprise situation like a car turning in front of you or one stopping unexpectedly in front of you, where in either case death looked imminent, you likely would have jammed all brakes as hard as you could, without thought. This is where ABS will save your ass and that's why they are a great safety device. In decades of driving they saved my ass 3 times in situations I'll never forget. Bill

 

[SkooterG]

This thread is freaking hilarious. People are arguing apples and oranges and even grapes.

So far, amongst all the static, I do believe Iggy is making the most sense though some seem determined to examine the bark on the trees, rather than see the whole forest.

 

[glory racing]

This thread is freaking hilarious. People are arguing apples and oranges and even grapes.
So far, amongst all the static, I do believe Iggy is making the most sense though some seem determined to examine the bark on the trees, rather than see the whole forest.

Like most threads...a lot of good answers, but few that address the actual question.

And Iggy got 2 of the 4 correct. Batting .500 is pretty good...right!

 

[mcatrophy]

...Batting .500 is pretty good...right!

On this forum, that's got to be amongst the top 95%.

 

[garyahouse]

If you've ever encountered a surprise situation like a car turning in front of you or one stopping unexpectedly in front of you, where in either case death looked imminent, you likely would have jammed all brakes as hard as you could, without thought. This is where ABS will save your ass and that's why they are a great safety device. In decades of driving they saved my ass 3 times in situations I'll never forget. Bill

I was content to just follow this thread silently. It always amazes me the way so many of you guys grapple back and forth with subjects like handling and braking. I guess in some ways I must be one of the black sheep of the FJR family. Uhhh... can you spell, "d-a-r-k-s-i-d-e?" I live and ride in Florida. Cold weather? Rare. Curves? More Rare. Opportunities to practice sport riding? Nearly non existent. I say that because though we do have curves, we also have speed limits. Exposing some of my black fur, I try to observe the speed limits, always.

My FJR just clicked over 26k, I've never ground a foot peg, and probably never will. I don't seek to become a better rider, in the sense that better rider = faster rider. I will go on, Lord willing, obeying the speed limits and riding as safely as I know how, until I'm too old to ride.

Which leads me to say that for me, and for every other guy out there like me, ABS is essential, therefore it doesn't matter if it fosters/creates bad braking habits.

I chose to write this today because yesterday on the way home from teaching at Gulf Middle School, a woman in a 40 foot long white station wagon (at least it SEEMED that long) pulled across the highway in front of me. As I approached at about 40 mph, I was busy listening to my iPod and just staring straight ahead, engrossed in my thoughts about just what to say to my daughter when I arrived in a few minutes. And in a split second, I was experiencing sensory overload with about 30 feet to get the FJR to a stop.

Slow motion replay

.103 second: eyes tell brain we have a large white problem

.209 second: brain tells right hand to let go of throttle and reach for brake

.214 second: oh yeah, right foot, this means you too (the legs are a little slower this year) Brain reminds both: ABS = go for it.

.256 second: eyes open significantly wider, neck muscles brace for emergency maneuvers, eyes looking for possible escape route..

.368 second: fingers reach brake lever just ahead of foot, which was actually hanging kinda sideways off the foot peg for who knows what reason: eyes tell brain, "she's actually going to do this, she's not hitting the brakes." Also, forget escape idea, nowhere to go.

.388 second: hand and foot begin to squeeze, brain reminds both we have a full fledged emergency here, can't you move any faster?

.402 second: front suspension begins to compress, rear wheel ABS kicks in, eyes report that this is a woman, she's not even looking in my direction, car is now half way into my lane, eyes to brain: you are GOING to crash.

.560 second: ABS on both wheels now fully engaged, we're at 22 feet now.

1.10 seconds: boat now spans the entire road, can't reach horn as there's too much weight on my hands. Brain: I hope the ABS works like it's supposed to...

1.8 seconds: wow, this braking system is powerful, looking like we might live to tell this story...

2.4 seconds: FJR at about 10 mph, rear bumper just clearing my path, glance in mirror, nobody in sight (thank God), eyes report that foolish woman seems totally unaware that anything just happened and that it looks like we're all clear...

Does ABS foster/create bad habits?

The question remains, but I'll leave that discussion to you fine fellas. But for me, as I've said on this forum, I will not own and ride a bike on the streets every day without ABS. That's one of the primary reasons I bought an FJR, and yesterday's experience simply reinforces that conviction. I ride every day surrounded by cages who sometimes don't see the guy on the bike. Does it really matter that stomping on the brakes, and thus depending on ABS, reduces one's ability to brake effectively without them? I own and FJR. I will probably always own an FJR. It HAS ABS. It will very rarely ever get used: thus far twice in 2 1/2 years. For me, that's all that matters.

Edit: one more thought. Let's just say that someone reading this forum agrees that riding an ABS equipped bike limits his ability in some way to maintain his edge when using standard brakes on other bikes. The let's say he decides to sell the other bikes and make an ABS equipped bike his only ride. That decision all by itself may just save his life one day. Hmmm. How's that for a bad habit?

Gary

darksider #44

 

[LAF]

If you've ever encountered a surprise situation like a car turning in front of you or one stopping unexpectedly in front of you, where in either case death looked imminent, you likely would have jammed all brakes as hard as you could, without thought. This is where ABS will save your ass and that's why they are a great safety device. In decades of driving they saved my ass 3 times in situations I'll never forget. Bill

I was content to just follow this thread silently. It always amazes me the way so many of you guys grapple back and forth with subjects like handling and braking. I guess in some ways I must be one of the black sheep of the FJR family. Uhhh... can you spell, "d-a-r-k-s-i-d-e?" I live and ride in Florida. Cold weather? Rare. Curves? More Rare. Opportunities to practice sport riding? Nearly non existent. I say that because though we do have curves, we also have speed limits. Exposing some of my black fur, I try to observe the speed limits, always.

My FJR just clicked over 26k, I've never ground a foot peg, and probably never will. I don't seek to become a better rider, in the sense that better rider = faster rider. I will go on, Lord willing, obeying the speed limits and riding as safely as I know how, until I'm too old to ride.

Which leads me to say that for me, and for every other guy out there like me, ABS is essential, therefore it doesn't matter if it fosters/creates bad braking habits.

I chose to write this today because yesterday on the way home from teaching at Gulf Middle School, a woman in a 40 foot long white station wagon (at least it SEEMED that long) pulled across the highway in front of me. As I approached at about 40 mph, I was busy listening to my iPod and just staring straight ahead, engrossed in my thoughts about just what to say to my daughter when I arrived in a few minutes. And in a split second, I was experiencing sensory overload with about 30 feet to get the FJR to a stop.

Slow motion replay

.103 second: eyes tell brain we have a large white problem

.209 second: brain tells right hand to let go of throttle and reach for brake

.214 second: oh yeah, right foot, this means you too (the legs are a little slower this year) Brain reminds both: ABS = go for it.

.256 second: eyes open significantly wider, neck muscles brace for emergency maneuvers, eyes looking for possible escape route..

.368 second: fingers reach brake lever just ahead of foot, which was actually hanging kinda sideways off the foot peg for who knows what reason: eyes tell brain, "she's actually going to do this, she's not hitting the brakes." Also, forget escape idea, nowhere to go.

.388 second: hand and foot begin to squeeze, brain reminds both we have a full fledged emergency here, can't you move any faster?

.402 second: front suspension begins to compress, rear wheel ABS kicks in, eyes report that this is a woman, she's not even looking in my direction, car is now half way into my lane, eyes to brain: you are GOING to crash.

.560 second: ABS on both wheels now fully engaged, we're at 22 feet now.

1.10 seconds: boat now spans the entire road, can't reach horn as there's too much weight on my hands. Brain: I hope the ABS works like it's supposed to...

1.8 seconds: wow, this braking system is powerful, looking like we might live to tell this story...

2.4 seconds: FJR at about 10 mph, rear bumper just clearing my path, glance in mirror, nobody in sight (thank God), eyes report that foolish woman seems totally unaware that anything just happened and that it looks like we're all clear...

Does ABS foster/create bad habits?

The question remains, but I'll leave that discussion to you fine fellas. But for me, as I've said on this forum, I will not own and ride a bike on the streets every day without ABS. That's one of the primary reasons I bought an FJR, and yesterday's experience simply reinforces that conviction. I ride every day surrounded by cages who sometimes don't see the guy on the bike. Does it really matter that stomping on the brakes, and thus depending on ABS, reduces one's ability to brake effectively without them? I own and FJR. I will probably always own an FJR. It HAS ABS. It will very rarely ever get used: thus far twice in 2 1/2 years. For me, that's all that matters.

Gary

darksider #44

I think this should prove the point. All this other noise is just static. ABS works faster or better then we can feather a non ABS braking system, period. Any other argument on the subject is just obsessive denial. High side, rear slide out, completely upsetting the suspension especially while in a lean, the ABS stops these things better then all but the top 1% of riders out there can on non ABS. ABS rules and non ABS will crash you!

 

[lnewlf]

My FJ1200 had great brakes-a lot of bucks in cast iron rotors, etc.. My pals and I used to see if we could equal magazine stopping distances and I could stop that FJ from 60 in 120 ft. in a controlled situation. On day I had exactly the same situation as Garyahouse except I locked both wheels -first the rear as usual and then the front as the bike slowed and weight shifted off the front. Put a huge dent in the drivers door of her Taurus but no other damage. I am quite sure that The FJR would have stopped in time. Soon after getting the FJR I nailed the brakes at 60 to see how the newfangled ABS worked. Reflexes were trained for the rear wheel lockup which never happened and I damn near went over the bars. Maybee Lorenzo and Rossi and in the day Russel and Spencer could outbrake ABS-but on the street ? I'm not so sure..

 

[mcatrophy]

Slow motion replay.103 second: eyes tell brain we have a large white problem

.209 second: brain tells right hand to let go of throttle and reach for brake

.214 second: oh yeah, right foot, this means you too (the legs are a little slower this year) Brain reminds both: ABS = go for it.

.256 second: eyes open significantly wider, neck muscles brace for emergency maneuvers, eyes looking for possible escape route..

.368 second: fingers reach brake lever just ahead of foot, which was actually hanging kinda sideways off the foot peg for who knows what reason: eyes tell brain, "she's actually going to do this, she's not hitting the brakes." Also, forget escape idea, nowhere to go.

.388 second: hand and foot begin to squeeze, brain reminds both we have a full fledged emergency here, can't you move any faster?

.402 second: front suspension begins to compress, rear wheel ABS kicks in, eyes report that this is a woman, she's not even looking in my direction, car is now half way into my lane, eyes to brain: you are GOING to crash.

.560 second: ABS on both wheels now fully engaged, we're at 22 feet now.

1.10 seconds: boat now spans the entire road, can't reach horn as there's too much weight on my hands. Brain: I hope the ABS works like it's supposed to...

1.8 seconds: wow, this braking system is powerful, looking like we might live to tell this story...

2.4 seconds: FJR at about 10 mph, rear bumper just clearing my path, glance in mirror, nobody in sight (thank God), eyes report that foolish woman seems totally unaware that anything just happened and that it looks like we're all clear...

...

Gary

darksider #44

Pretty good description of the real world.

But I wanna see the log file

.

 

[RadioHowie]

Howzabout the log in Gary's pants????

Now THAT'S vulgar!!

 

[Bustanut joker]

So long as you don't mention an itchy butt.. things should be fine.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Sooo, Garyahouse is saying that ABS does in fact create a terrible habit. ABS will allow the average rider to keep on living. If living longer is the bad habit that ABS creates, I think I can, ahem, live with that.

 

[odot]

No, no no no no no no no....abs allows the idiots like me to make all kinds of mistakes and still open the garage door to get home.

We still find ways to crash, though....just ask skooterG.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Idiot??????

Fuk dood.... All these years I was sure you was an Eskimo...

Silly me..

 

[SkooterG]

No, no no no no no no no....abs allows the idiots like me to make all kinds of mistakes and still open the garage door to get home.We still find ways to crash, though....just ask skooterG.

Nice try asswipe. I have only crashed non-abs FJRs.

:finger:

 

[bgross]

Gary's story does, I'm certain, stir memories in most of us of the 'events' we've lived through. His 'log', and the comments in his preface, demonstrate that ABS is an invaluable tool which is often unused... until it's needed.

It has been observed that, despite the multitude of safety advancements in motor vehicles in the past decades, there are still many, many avoidable 'accidents' because people seem to "feel safer' and drive like idiots. The unconscious reliance on seat belts, airbags, crumple zones, etc. help in an 'accident', but the defensive and cautious driving skills that might actually AVOID an accident seem to be forgotten. There is an actual name for the phenomenon, but I'm too lazy to Google it.

Back to the OPs question about ABS and bad habits: If the ABS's function has repeatedly prevented your rear wheel from locking (and you from sliding and/or crashing) it has done what it was designed to do. That you continue to utilize this function is evidence of an interruption in your learning curve when it comes to effective braking technique.

"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."

 

[odot]

No, no no no no no no no....abs allows the idiots like me to make all kinds of mistakes and still open the garage door to get home.We still find ways to crash, though....just ask skooterG.

Nice try asswipe. I have only crashed non-abs FJRs.

Hm, I wonder what that says aboot yer braking skillz.....maybe you should elevate and remain on an abs platform?

 

[Usul]

I'm all for ABS. My ABS are a lifesaver. I use my ABS every day although I don't like it. I know some riders have six pack ABS and they're linked but I can't understand that. I understand that there is some correlation between the amount of beer consumed and the performance of your ABS but I'm still testing that theory...might take a good bit more testing.

 

[odot]

Usul....you must be my long lost twin..............

 

[Bustanut joker]

I just discovered this i assume to be manual on ABS.. Not sure what Hip Hop has to do with it, but maybe it's a term the cool kids are using to describe the sensation through the brake peddle?

 

[James Burleigh]

Glad your story had a happy ending....

I've only owned two bikes in my life: a Sportster and an FJR (two of the same model). And now I would never own a bike without ABS.

In my opinion, or maybe it's just true, so my opinion doesn't matter, there are three skills you have to be expert at to survive out there: accelerating, swerving, and braking. I practice these all the time, but particularly swerving (manhole covers are good) and most important, braking. Every time I ride the back roads into work, on one stretch, I slam my brakes on and bring it to a full stop while downshifting to first gear, two or three times.

But having said that, and no reflection on any other riders including the author of this post, I gauge my skill by how many times I have NOT had to rapidly brake or "panic stop." In over 100,000 commuter miles in the last 6 or 7 years, I can't even remember a panic stop while commuting. I'm proud of that.

[Oh great--now I just jinxed myself....

]