Anti-Lock Brakes

[SkooterG]

Another option would be to let a little air in the line to soften up the response.

Purposely introducing air into a fundamental safety device like the braking system? Noooo thanks! Am I the only one that thinks that's crazy?

Why not remove one of the spark plug wires.....or carry an anchor to throw out in an emergency stop?

NO, you are not the only one! It's a freaking hydraulic system. Fluid only, NO air!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Another option would be to let a little air in the line to soften up the response.

Purposely introducing air into a fundamental safety device like the braking system? Noooo thanks! Am I the only one that thinks that's crazy?

Why not remove one of the spark plug wires.....or carry an anchor to throw out in an emergency stop?

NO, you are not the only one! It's a freaking hydraulic system. Fluid only, NO air!

+1

I never heard of anything so crazy as that. I would rather just carry a .38 snubby and shoot myself in an emergency than suffer the pain of the resulting crash. With all the silly stuff we get posted on this forum... I would hope that was really a joke.

 

[doug5551]

Why not remove one of the spark plug wires.

Ya Know,

After riding for a prolonged period in Nevada, I have considered doing just this when I have to return to California, where speeding tickets tend to be for more than $25... :winksmiley02:

 

[TheZsdad]

I know this is a crazy idea but maybe you just need to get use to your new bike.

I don't think I'm a fast rider but have been using front and rear together to scrub off speed

in corners for years. I know the braking should be done prior and the throttle should pull you

through but sometimes I get in hotter than I'm comfortable with. In this case it's front, rear and

throttle together. It is a light touch on the brakes.

 

[RacinRay]

I know this is a crazy idea but maybe you just need to get use to your new bike.

I don't think I'm a fast rider but have been using front and rear together to scrub off speed

in corners for years. I know the braking should be done prior and the throttle should pull you

through but sometimes I get in hotter than I'm comfortable with. In this case it's front, rear and

throttle together. It is a light touch on the brakes.

Wow these threads really take on a life of their own. I thought I began by saying that I need to work on my technique with the new bike. I was asking if other riders felt that anti-lock brakes allowed them to develop some bad habits because the ABS compensates for your shortcomings. I feel my lack of "touch" with the rear brake is due to the fact I don't have to modulate brake pressure with the ABS on my FJR.

 

[extrememarine]

Here's my .02 cents. The Speed Triple is about as far as you can get away from the FJR in vehicle dynamics. The FJR allows for heavier rear brake bias on trail braking because the linked braking and abs keeps you out of trouble – imho. The chassis reacts differently than the Triumph . Aggressive braking on the Triumph lightens the rear end to the point of overcoming rear tire traction. Pressed hard enough, the FJR will float the rear end as well.

I attended the Keith Code rider course he developed for the Navy& Marine Corps. On braking, they talked about maximum braking – we're talking track level braking – where the front, if used to it's maximum, will lighten the rear to ineffectiveness.

MSF teaches slow-look-press-roll as proper corning techniqueand it is a very solid foundation for street riding. It's a good technique that will allow themaximum use of available traction for braking, then cornering. But it's not the only technique.

I would suggest you spend some quality time developing and adapting to the new bike and the nuances presented in the braking systems of the two bikes. When I got my first FJR, I had a Harley Softail in the garage as well and rotated between the bikes daily. I had to be very aware of which bike I was on – '04 FJR /w ABS vs. and '02 Harley Softail – talk about polar opposites!

Can ABS breed bad habits? Possibly, if the rider allows himself/herself to get too comfy the the safety net it provides.

Good Luck!

 

[RossKean]

For me, ABS is just an insurance policy that is rarely used. I "play" with the ABS from time-to-time to exercise the parts and to remain familiar with its function i.e. when is it likely to kick in? Other than that, I doubt I have "invoked" the ABS more than a handfull of times in the last 80,000 miles - usually under predictable conditions like wet or sandy road surfaces. I would safely say that ABS has not bred bad habits for me. I don't rely on it to push the braking envelope but its nice to know that its there in case shit happens. I can see that it might save my bacon one day during a "Oh Shit!" moment.

Ross

 

[dbx]

Another option would be to let a little air in the line to soften up the response.

Purposely introducing air into a fundamental safety device like the braking system? Noooo thanks! Am I the only one that thinks that's crazy?
Why not remove one of the spark plug wires.....or carry an anchor to throw out in an emergency stop?

I thought you were gonna suggest putting a little oil on the rear brake pads

...

 

[FJR Bill]

I know this is a crazy idea but maybe you just need to get use to your new bike.

I don't think I'm a fast rider but have been using front and rear together to scrub off speed

in corners for years. I know the braking should be done prior and the throttle should pull you

through but sometimes I get in hotter than I'm comfortable with. In this case it's front, rear and

throttle together. It is a light touch on the brakes.

That's worked for me for some 50 years. It's a coordinated response of all brakes and throttle. Cornering agressively I lightly feather the brakes so I have the feel of where initial friction begins. Probably drives my followers nuts because they think I'm slowing. Nope, just feeling the brakes out. But hey maybe that keeps them off my ass and I'm ok with that as i don't like close companionship while in the twisties.

Bill

 

[RacinRay]

As the original poster in this thread, I thank everyone for their input. However, I think this thread has never really addressed my original question. While I do understand the theory of braking on a motorcycle, I felt that spending almost 6 years on the ABS equipped FJR let me slip into some bad habits, i.e. being a little heavy on the rear pedal. My question was does anyone else believe that ABS brakes breed bad habits by allowing the rider to be heavy handed (or footed) on the brakes.

 

[maddad]

1) Utilizing your rear brake to the point that ABS kicks in is just wrong. No value. Bad Habit. It's no difference then without ABS locking your back brake just to make a skid mark.

2) ABS has nothing to do with performance. ABS kicks in at the instance the wheel starts to slip. At this moment if you don't have ABS, your likely going down. It is a safety issue and very valuable safety issue. Saved my own butt a few times.

3) Putting air in your braking system is perfectly acceptable in transport trucks with air brakes. If you want air in them, buy a transport truck not an FJR.

On a trip through the Dragon, my cousin (ZX-14R) commented that I was able to take the corners faster then he because I had ABS. It was dry roads, ABS never kicked in. Again, has nothing to do with performance, except if it were raining, it would probably kick in and keep me upright.

On braking in a corner, I was coming down the Mountain in Akaroa NZ on a BMW1200GS. Very twisty road. Cousin behind me. As usual braking in the corners to control my speed. Decided, heck only get to do this once. Let go of the brake and just road it through. Was amazing how much smoother it was and more controlled. Lost the cousin after a couple of corners. Braking in a corner makes cornering harder.

So I would hazard to suggest, that if you are approaching a corner, feel you are too fast, but will be okay by braking than leave the brake alone and you'll probably be even better trusting your bike to do the job.

 

[Ignacio]

As the original poster in this thread, I thank everyone for their input. However, I think this thread has never really addressed my original question. While I do understand the theory of braking on a motorcycle, I felt that spending almost 6 years on the ABS equipped FJR let me slip into some bad habits, i.e. being a little heavy on the rear pedal. My question was does anyone else believe that ABS brakes breed bad habits by allowing the rider to be heavy handed (or footed) on the brakes.

Does the ABS system breed bad habits? No. DO they allow heavy handed/footed brakers? No. Is it fault of the equipment? No.

Can riders develop bad habits? Yes, absolutely.

It sounds like you've developed some bad habits or questing if you have. Fix them by concentrating on fixing your personal habits and/or take courses to improve if you don't think you can retrain yourself. Most training courses embrace ABS as helpful tools these days.

 

[supertankerm60a3]

OK, I'll join the dogpile.

Actually, you would do better to leave the hydraulic system all fluid due to the small volume that the master cylinder moves. Also, you would not change the amount of PRESSURE that causes lockup only the amount of MOVEMENT. The downside is that at lockup, you would need to allow the pedal to move up a correspondingly larger amount to release the pressure as the trapped air would need to re-expand.

You would do better to just grease one side of the disk, this way, you get to add pressure at the pedal without the lockup issues.

 

[RacinRay]

I've been riding my '06 FJR almost exclusively for the last 6 years and I've apparently developed a bad habit. When I come into a corner too hot, I tend to use the rear brake to scrub off excess speed. It doesn't make the front end dive and with the ABS you can't lock up the rear wheel. Now, with my new speed triple (no ABS) when I use the rear brake in turns the rear locks up VERY easily. I think I've developed a "lead foot" and I'm having a difficult time modulating the rear brake. I've had several "oh shit" moments when the rear tire locks up and jumps out of line. I'm almost ready to remove the rear brake pedal. The Brembo brakes on the triple have incredible stopping power I just need to relearn my braking technique.
Anyone else struggle with this issue?

I found that moving the brake pedal down a little was an excellent suggestion for taming my Speed Triple. It really seemed to make a big difference, giving my boot a little more working room. So, thank you for that. I frankly never entertained the idea of introducing air into the hydraulic system.

I guess my issue really isn’t ABS per se, but rather being used to using a certain level of force on the lever/pedal to haul down the FJR coming into a corner. I don’t believe I’m using too much rear brake; I’m certainly not activating the ABS. I’m just used to applying a certain amount of force to the brake pedal.

When I move to my Triple, which is much lighter and has excellent brakes, I was initially having trouble modulating rear brake pressure. Under hard braking the Triple’s rear tire is unweighted much easier than the FJR thereby allowing far less braking force prior to lock up. And, without ABS, I did indeed lock up the rear wheel on a few occasions. Not fun.

I guess it’s kind of like when on rare occasion I jump on my VTX and I can’t find the foot pegs right away. You get used to having your feet underneath you and it take a second or two to remember they are now out in front.

 

[glory racing]

As the original poster in this thread, I thank everyone for their input. However, I think this thread has never really addressed my original question. While I do understand the theory of braking on a motorcycle, I felt that spending almost 6 years on the ABS equipped FJR let me slip into some bad habits, i.e. being a little heavy on the rear pedal. My question was does anyone else believe that ABS brakes breed bad habits by allowing the rider to be heavy handed (or footed) on the brakes.

Does the ABS system breed bad habits? No. DO they allow heavy handed/footed brakers? No. Is it fault of the equipment? No.

Can riders develop bad habits? Yes, absolutely.

It sounds like you've developed some bad habits or questing if you have. Fix them by concentrating on fixing your personal habits and/or take courses to improve if you don't think you can retrain yourself. Most training courses embrace ABS as helpful tools these days.

I totally disagree. Yes, the abs allows a rider to breed bad habits and allow heavy handed/footed brakers. Since you do not have to be concerned with locking up the wheels, it becomes less of a focus. This is actually one of the features of abs that I enjoy as it makes my riding more enjoyable. Obviously it is not the fault of the equipment and riders can and do develop bad habits.

Don't misunderstand, I love the abs feature and wish I had them on the FZ1. Every time I jump on the fz1 after riding the FJR, or now VFR, I have to use some of the limited brain cells I have to focus on not locking her up.

 

[Ignacio]

Obviously it is not the fault of the equipment and riders can and do develop bad habits.

I agree with that!

 

[RacinRay]

DO they allow heavy handed/footed brakers? No.

How do you come to this conclusion? That is the exact purpose of ABS.

 

[maddad]

DO they allow heavy handed/footed brakers? No.

How do you come to this conclusion? That is the exact purpose of ABS.

Maybe in the rain. But on a dry road ABS is irrelevant. How hard would you have to cme on to ABS to get it to come on in the ront on a dry road. if you are coming on to the back hard enough for the abs to come on or to sile on a non abs bike then you just have a ba hait from braking.

 

[glory racing]

If I am reading your post correctly, I think you are proving the point the OP was trying to make. Wet, dry or whatever the road conditions...the ABS feature can allow a rider to slip into a habit of not having to focus on braking. Or as I look at it, the "benefit" of not having to think so much about it...which allows me to focus on other aspects of the ride. All bikes should have ABS!

 

[odot]

If yer using yer abs every time you brake you must have some mad frickin' skilz.......