Anti-sieze on brake caliper bolts?

[bgross]

I pulled the front wheel yesterday and took it to the shop to have a new tire mounted.

When I tried to remove the b.c. bolts, I needed a bigger boat, er, wrench. Those bolts were TIGHT! Tight like, 'crack' when they broke free. Scary stuff. Seriously, the axle wasn't that tight.

What say y'all - a tad of anti-sieze and reduce the torque a bit? Or will my calipers fall off in BFE and leave me unable to stop until I hit Lower Slobovia?

(I searched the archive and only found one post who'd used a-s.)

TIA.

 

[Fred W]

I would not use anti-seize on those bolts. It isn't called for in the FSM and shouldn't be needed. My calipers are on and off so often they never have a chance to get seized, and I ride in some pretty nasty weather conditions the winter months.

The torque spec on those bolts is relatively low. Do you remember who the last person was that torqued them up? Maybe they just overcooked them.

 

[mcatrophy]

I use a little copper grease to prevent seizure, as I do on most threads. If you use a torque wrench, reduce the torque value by something like 30%.

I prefer to do it by feel, unless it's something like a cylinder head "stretch" bolt.

Never had one come loose, nor be too tight to undo the next time.

 

[Afast03nNJ]

Been using anti-seize on brakes in every vehicle I've owned for many, many years... Never an issue.

 

[bgross]

I would not use anti-seize on those bolts. It isn't called for in the FSM and shouldn't be needed. My calipers are on and off so often they never have a chance to get seized, and I ride in some pretty nasty weather conditions the winter months.
The torque spec on those bolts is relatively low. Do you remember who the last person was that torqued them up? Maybe they just overcooked them.

Since Lucille is in the Witness Protection Program, I don't know who last played with her. But whoever it was, they must have eaten their Wheaties that morning.

In her past life she shared a garage with several other bikes, so it might have been a while since those bolts were last tightened.

Thanks for the input!

 

[rickysnickers]

Been using anti-seize on brakes in every vehicle I've owned for many, many years... Never an issue.

Gunny this

 

[ionbeam]

Since Lucille is in the Witness Protection Program, I don't know who last played with her. But whoever it was, they must have eaten their Wheaties that morning.In her past life she shared a garage with several other bikes, so it might have been a while since those bolts were last tightened.

Oh I'm pretty sure I DO know who it most likely was

And, I know who Lucille was in a past life...

 

[Fred W]

I guess you anti-seizers know better than the design engineers...

 

[mcatrophy]

I guess you anti-seizers know better than the design engineers...

So, what torque do you use for the sump plug ?

 

[ionbeam]

So, what torque do you use for the sump plug

?

After assessing if the plug is structural, clamps critical parts, is safety related or purely cosmetic I have come up with the correct torque -- sufficient and not more.

 

[Fred W]

I guess you anti-seizers know better than the design engineers...

So, what torque do you use for the sump plug

?

Goodn'Tight.

But I sure don't put anti-seize on it!

I do not use a torque wrench for drain plugs, or oil filters, or a host of other trivial things, but I do on the caliper bolts and several other key fasteners (axles, etc).

 

[wheatonFJR]

I guess you anti-seizers know better than the design engineers...

So, what torque do you use for the sump plug

?

Goodn'Tight.

But I sure don't put anti-seize on it!

I do not use a torque wrench for drain plugs, or oil filters, or a host of other trivial things, but I do on the caliper bolts and several other key fasteners (axles, etc).

Good GOD Fred!

Please tell me you don't know more than the design engineers!!!

 

[dcarver]

I'm the anti-seize king.

No problems.

..and YES, I AM smarter than factory EnJineers.

Just ax me.

 

[Donal]

Surely the only thing that matters is to end up applying the correct preload (stretch) in the bolt.

If you don't apply anti-seize then you need the required torque to overcome the friction losses in the threads and at the nut face and apply the designed preload.

If you do apply anti seize then you reduce the torque to achieve the same preload. Whichever way you do it, the design engineers criteria are achieved.

Simples............................

 

[dcarver]

and torque wrenches are peeps who don't have calibrated wrists.

 

[Fred W]

Well, yes and no. In most cases the torque settings for steel bolts threaded into alloy threads are far below the elasticity of the steel bolt. So there is not bolt stretch going on here. What you are referring to is in applications like headbolts, etc. where the steel bolt is tightened to the point of barely stretching, and that way maintains relative constant clamping force throughout the engine's thermal cycles.

The dry torque spec is intended to keep you well below the threads ripping out of the female alloy but still give you enough clamping force so the bolt doesn't shake loose during use. Can you do that without a torque wrench? Of course you can, maybe 99.9% of the time the fastener never loosens even when you guestimate the torque.

The problem with using anti-seize where it isn't called for is two fold (and neither has anything to do with using a torque wrench). One, you are far more apt to over torque the alloy threads and damage or weaken them without realizing it due to the lubrication. It just feels like it it turning so easy. The second is that even if you happen to hit the desired clamping force dead nutz, the bolt will have a greater propensity to loosen in its greased up state.

I used to anti-sieze plugs, an old habit from the past with iron heads in cars. It only took one time for a spark plug to shoot itself out of an alloy head that had previously been "correctly torqued" (it was a SAAB auto) for me to realize that anti-seize ain't all that.

You anti-seizers keep doing whatever makes you feel good. I'll just use it where the FSM calls for it.

So no, Mark... I am not smarter than the design engineers.

 

[Geezer]

It is not often that I disagree with Fred-, but yes, I use anti seize on the brake calipers, both the mounting bolts and the bolts that hold the pads. I would rather err on the side of using the stuff than have to replace an expensive part.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I wish the bastages that put my Ford F350 used some never seize on the brake calipers. I had to pull the casting off and litteraly beat the pads out of the casting with a 5 pound lead hammer. They siezed rite up into the casting. This is the third caliper on the truck with 15K miiles on it. So when I pulled into work today I got out of my truck and could smell the calipers again. Now its the rear on both sides that were very hot to the touch.

Sorry Fred, but I fall into the never sieze group of offenders also.

Sumbitch, My hankering for Fords is diminishing rapidly.

Dave

 

[bgross]

Thanks, everybody, for the input and entertainment.

Everything is buttoned up and I'll take her out for a spin tonight to scrub the tires - I don't think Michelin uses anti-sieze on them, but I'll scuff them anyway.